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Is Voynov in LA to stay?

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01-16-2012, 05:03 PM
  #26
Josh Deitell
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The crazy thing to me is how much he's stepped his game up from the AHL level. He was nowhere near as poised defensively when I watched him in the past. He's a major gamer and he deserves to be here now and long-term.

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01-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #27
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Haha... No one mentioned he was a big goon. He's "Beastie"!


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01-16-2012, 05:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
The crazy thing to me is how much he's stepped his game up from the AHL level. He was nowhere near as poised defensively when I watched him in the past. He's a major gamer and he deserves to be here now and long-term.
I agree. Voynov looks like one of those rare players whose game actually improves when he stepped up to the NHL level. That usually is an indicator that a player has some special skill and/or hockey sense.

I think the Kings have to hang onto him. He might make some others expendable.

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01-16-2012, 05:33 PM
  #29
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I think his ceiling is higher than Zhitnik's.

Think Paul Coffey.
I really hope that is sarcasm. Did you ever see Coffee play. He was magic. One of the best skaters ever

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01-16-2012, 06:34 PM
  #30
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I agree. Voynov looks like one of those rare players whose game actually improves when he stepped up to the NHL level. That usually is an indicator that a player has some special skill and/or hockey sense.

I think the Kings have to hang onto him. He might make some others expendable.
Yes. Namely Martinez....MAYBE Johnson if we could get some ridiculous return. Also JJ's contract, at 4.3 is super workable under a lot of teams.

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01-16-2012, 07:07 PM
  #31
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Yes. Namely Martinez....MAYBE Johnson if we could get some ridiculous return. Also JJ's contract, at 4.3 is super workable under a lot of teams.
Martinez is definitely available. It was said a while back that Johnson's contract makes him pretty valuable, not just as a player on the Kings' roster but also in a trade to other teams. If Voynov continues to make progress, I could see Dean moving JJ.

May be a little to soon to do it this season though.

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01-16-2012, 07:11 PM
  #32
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JJ COULD be moved for
-a high-profile scoring winger. straight up trade
-a #1 or combo of multiple lower picks

VV COULD be moved for
-a high-profile winger, but likely would require another roster/prospect/pick to finish the deal
-definitely a #2. personally i think he can nab a #1 at this point

AMart COULD be moved for
-a lower tier roster player, likely a #3-4 roster player straight up
-i think at most a #2, most likely a #3.

anyone of these three could be moved depending on the situation and player(s) involved. is moving JJ the right move? tough to say honestly. if ANH offered Ryan for JJ straight up you make that move. OK scratch that since its ANH, but a move for a player of that capability 1 for 1.

what would you do if Yzerman came to you with Stamkos for JJ and JB? or BOS comes with Lucic for JJ or VV and and #1 or #2? **** how about PHI offers Simmer for VV?

those are the kinds of moves and players LA needs. the high end sniper and a few pieces for the #3 and #4 lines that give them more firepower.

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01-16-2012, 07:37 PM
  #33
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I think it's a pretty good deal if we can get a good 3rd liner for Martinez and a pick. I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

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01-16-2012, 07:54 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
what would you do if Yzerman came to you with Stamkos for JJ and JB?
I would giggle uncontrollably...

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01-16-2012, 08:21 PM
  #35
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i think MIN is going to be a seller real quick. Koivu is down along with others. MIN has been in a free fall and now their best all around forward is down in Koivu. TB is already 'supposedly' shopping them for Harding. i would still love for DL to make a move for Clutterbuck. a month ago when MIN was in the #1 slot there was no way they were going make that move. now though.......MIN may possibly listen to offers for him.

Zidlicky is old and showing it. he isn't coming close to meeting expectations as their QB on the PP. J Spurgeon is their leading producer on the blue line at this point. who? exactly. he is another young d man with limited experience. his downside is that he is listed at 5'9" 175. really at the NHL level, at D? don't know about you but my guess is he going to have a tough time holding up over 82 games.

i think VV for Clutterbuck straight up could work, but I think it is overpayment so you offer this last. gives both teams something they need right away. i offer AMart though first and see what they say. AMart gives them a bigger PMD that is also starting to show a bit of a nasty edge at times. also gives them a PMD with good average size at 6' and 205, instead of the a guy that is sized for college hockey or a mens rec league.

Zidlicky is signed through next season at $4M and has a NMC, so there may be some obstacle there. at the same time MIN has $7M+ in cap space still so they have room

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01-16-2012, 08:25 PM
  #36
Willard
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SHOOTS LEFT
Johnson
Mitchell
Scuderi
Martinez
Drewiske

SHOOTS RIGHT
Doughty
Voynov
Greene

The Kings like having that third guy who is a right shot on the blue line. There are of course far more left shot than right shot defensemen in the NHL, the percentage difference is something like 65-35. This is one reason why the Doughty-Teubert-Voynov draft was so notable for the Kings, all 3 were right shots, and a prime reason why Voynov is here to stay.


Last edited by Willard: 01-16-2012 at 08:44 PM.
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01-16-2012, 08:25 PM
  #37
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Clutterbuck would add some nice bite and goal scoring capability to the lineup. I would consider doing it for Martinez, not for Voynov.

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01-16-2012, 08:46 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Clutterbuck would add some nice bite and goal scoring capability to the lineup. I would consider doing it for Martinez, not for Voynov.
You and me would, but Minnesota wouldn't.

Nearly every team in the league would love to have Clutterbuck. He's the perfect 3rd liner, but Minny isn't going to trade him unless it's for a massive over payment. I doubt they would even take an offer of Martinez seriously.

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01-16-2012, 09:09 PM
  #39
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We could lose Mitchell after this year and Scuderi next year.
Given how difficult it is for LA to bring in free agents, we probably need to hang on to Voynov, JJ and other home grown D..

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01-16-2012, 09:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Willard View Post
SHOOTS LEFT
Johnson
Mitchell
Scuderi
Martinez
Drewiske

SHOOTS RIGHT
Doughty
Voynov
Greene

The Kings like having that third guy who is a right shot on the blue line. There are of course far more left shot than right shot defensemen in the NHL, the percentage difference is something like 65-35. This is one reason why the Doughty-Teubert-Voynov draft was so notable for the Kings, all 3 were right shots, and a prime reason why Voynov is here to stay.
i'm a lefty and personally always seen it as an advantage. most goalies are L (catcher) - R (blocker), since most people are right handed the stick hand is their dominant right hand. goalkeepers typically always go dominant hand to the stick hand.

shooting as a lefty im shooting away from the glove hand. win for the lefties. shoot 3-hole where most of them have problems getting to, because of simple body mechanics of holding the stick. shoot over the shoulder they get all kinds of **** up and wonky. keep the shot high and they have to make shoulder saves, if the shot is on the glove side then it is a different story. the glove hand is free to move up/down and side to side. the blocker/stick hand is down and has a limited range of motion.

as a lefty i am shooting all the time without even thinking about it, essentially at a very hard to protect area of the net. throw in the occasional shot about 4-6" to the right at their dome and you've got them all messed up. i found that after a few shots up high like this they started to stand a bit more erect in net to cover the 3-hole up top. ooops......im pulling now and going down low across your body. *queue siren and horn*

don't get the fascination with the R shot

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01-16-2012, 10:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by fsanford View Post
We could lose Mitchell after this year and Scuderi next year.
Given how difficult it is for LA to bring in free agents, we probably need to hang on to Voynov, JJ and other home grown D..
very good points, but most feel that DL moves to re-sign both if their terms aren't unreasonable. both of them have an obvious positive influence on how the D plays as a unit. i can see re-signing Willie for an addt'l 2 years and Scuds for even longer. it will come down to their asking price and also the development of guys like Muzzin, Campbell and Kolo. quite a few people are saying that Muzzin is ready for the move up permanent now

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01-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
don't get the fascination with the R shot
It's described as "shoots right" but the advantage is on D for clearing along the boards, puck protection, and having the body in the middle with the stick to the outside.

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01-17-2012, 01:57 AM
  #43
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I really hope that is sarcasm. Did you ever see Coffee play. He was magic. One of the best skaters ever
Yeah I did, Coffey was one of the best Offensive D-man the game has ever seen, I was merely pointing out that was Voynovs ceiling.

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01-17-2012, 06:37 AM
  #44
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It's described as "shoots right" but the advantage is on D for clearing along the boards, puck protection, and having the body in the middle with the stick to the outside.
ive played both points and both wings. not really a big deal to be honest. you dont even think about it. puck on the boards, kick it to your stick. cant kick it, then back hand it.

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01-17-2012, 07:06 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Weird question... How's his English?
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Originally Posted by Willie Mitchell
ďHeís Russian, but last night I made a play behind the net, and I was probably going to move the puck and I heard him yell, `Mitchy, Mitchy, time.í I said, `Hey, thatís when you know youíve got a good player. A Russian is yelling English at you,í telling me that I had time. You donít see that a lot out there. The fact that he talks out on the ice, thatís huge for a defenseman. Itís the guy without the puck, a lot of times, who makes the play for the guy with the puck, letting him know heís got time or whatever. When youíve got a guy doing that, it helps you out. Heís going to keep improving and itís going to be fun.íí
http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/10/19...voynovs-debut/

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01-17-2012, 07:42 AM
  #46
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You and me would, but Minnesota wouldn't.

Nearly every team in the league would love to have Clutterbuck. He's the perfect 3rd liner, but Minny isn't going to trade him unless it's for a massive over payment. I doubt they would even take an offer of Martinez seriously.
This. If the Wild continue to fall in the standings and get banged up you're going to see them hang onto guys like Harding, Spurgeon, Clutterbuck, Koivu, Setoguchi, and maybe Faulk, Lattendresse, and Wellman and build the team around that core. The guys that would be expendable would be Zidlicky, Cullen, Staubitz, maybe Bouchard, Backstrom, and maybe, maybe Heatley if the deal is good enough. Chuck Fletcher has been adamant in the media in Minnesota that he won't go into a full rebuild and that if he moves players it will be to improve the Wild roster now and not for the future so the chances of prying someone like Clutterbuck who is probably the most popular player on the team among the fanbase behind maybe Backstrom probably is a pipedream.

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01-17-2012, 08:40 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
This. If the Wild continue to fall in the standings and get banged up you're going to see them hang onto guys like Harding, Spurgeon, Clutterbuck, Koivu, Setoguchi, and maybe Faulk, Lattendresse, and Wellman and build the team around that core. The guys that would be expendable would be Zidlicky, Cullen, Staubitz, maybe Bouchard, Backstrom, and maybe, maybe Heatley if the deal is good enough. Chuck Fletcher has been adamant in the media in Minnesota that he won't go into a full rebuild and that if he moves players it will be to improve the Wild roster now and not for the future so the chances of prying someone like Clutterbuck who is probably the most popular player on the team among the fanbase behind maybe Backstrom probably is a pipedream.
i hear ya. and Fletcher would be right to retain him, but if the return is equal to or greater as a GM you usually make the move. MIN is seriously lacking a good PMD at this point. Zidlicky is just awful and Spurgeon is beyond small in size. a 5'9" 175lbs NHL d-man, good luck with that. that is frickin' tiny, with skates and gear he is MAYBE pushing 6' and 185lbs. how is that going to be when you have someone like say Clifford leaning on him? to me i picture a RR crossing after a train hits a car.

people had fears and questions about VV's size at 5'11" 195. so far he has held up to the punishment. so far he hasn't really been overpowered, much. there have been a few cases and a few games, but he has used his positioning and leverage to keep inside on guys to his benefit. BUT we are talking about him having a full 20lbs weight difference over this Spurgeon kid in MIN.

AMart goes 6' 205-210, so there is even more beef there. a kid that has shown to be good at both ends. this year has also begun to show a bit of nasty edge to his game. i also think he is capable of logging 20+ TOI each game and not tire out. is he a #1 or #2 that could command that time? still early to say, but his fast emergence last season and results show the kid has game. he came out of nowhere and became a part of the LA roster, not MAN.

for MIN the decision would come down to trading a fan favorite, that realistically is only a #3 grinder winger that is having a career year but will likely average 40-55 pts a year. for a #3-4 PMD that can step in on your PP, may down the road become a #2 or #1 and have significant more upside.

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01-17-2012, 08:56 AM
  #48
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Like Voynov a lot, but I don't think his evolution makes another defenseman tradeable.

Just look at Vancouver's playoff run a couple years ago (when the Kings exposed Andrew Alberts); a club really needs a quality player at #7. Injuries are almost inevitable.

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01-17-2012, 09:52 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
i hear ya. and Fletcher would be right to retain him, but if the return is equal to or greater as a GM you usually make the move. MIN is seriously lacking a good PMD at this point. Zidlicky is just awful and Spurgeon is beyond small in size. a 5'9" 175lbs NHL d-man, good luck with that. that is frickin' tiny, with skates and gear he is MAYBE pushing 6' and 185lbs. how is that going to be when you have someone like say Clifford leaning on him? to me i picture a RR crossing after a train hits a car.

people had fears and questions about VV's size at 5'11" 195. so far he has held up to the punishment. so far he hasn't really been overpowered, much. there have been a few cases and a few games, but he has used his positioning and leverage to keep inside on guys to his benefit. BUT we are talking about him having a full 20lbs weight difference over this Spurgeon kid in MIN.

AMart goes 6' 205-210, so there is even more beef there. a kid that has shown to be good at both ends. this year has also begun to show a bit of nasty edge to his game. i also think he is capable of logging 20+ TOI each game and not tire out. is he a #1 or #2 that could command that time? still early to say, but his fast emergence last season and results show the kid has game. he came out of nowhere and became a part of the LA roster, not MAN.

for MIN the decision would come down to trading a fan favorite, that realistically is only a #3 grinder winger that is having a career year but will likely average 40-55 pts a year. for a #3-4 PMD that can step in on your PP, may down the road become a #2 or #1 and have significant more upside.
Here's the thing though, Spurgeon to me has proven more durable already than VV and is currently the top guy on Minnesota's D. He's being used in all situations and hasn't missed significant time due to injury in the past two years, VV has played less minutes in games, missed more time to injury, and has the same question marks Spurgeon does. Spurgeon to me screams a younger Rafalski and he should be right around the same size (5'9 190) once he fills out his frame. Like I said though neither Clutterbuck, or Spurgeon is going anywhere. It would be like the Kings trading Brown or Doughty. Both are young and playing key roles for the Wild and would require a huge overpayment to get. You'd need to give up multiple roster players to get either and the Kings aren't in a position to do that right now. Like I said trading a guy like VV to Minnesota would basically get you one or two of the guys I mentioned as available in my last post (minus Heatley.)

If the Kings trade VV it needs to be for an established youngish sniper on a good contract to play on Kopitar's wing (basically replace Penner and Gagne) or an established defensive d-man that can replace Mitchell if he walks after this year, and not for a guy Clutterbuck who the Kings already have a similar player in Brown, or a another young puckmoving d-man when they already have a glut of them.


Last edited by tigermask48: 01-17-2012 at 10:09 AM. Reason: Brown is a much better comparison to Clutterbuck
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01-17-2012, 10:07 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
what would you do if Yzerman came to you with Stamkos for JJ and JB?
Immediately go buy a lottery ticket. Do you really think Yzerman would offer a guy on pace for almost 60 goals to anyone and, if he did, not go for the best player on the other team, plus something substancial?

If, and that's a massive fantasy if, T-Bay offered us Stamkos, you'd be looking at Kopitar, Bernier plus something really nice most likely.

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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Yeah I did, Coffey was one of the best Offensive D-man the game has ever seen, I was merely pointing out that was Voynovs ceiling.
if you think Voynov's ceiling is Coffey, you didn't watch Coffey play much. Voynov's a potential 50 point, 20+ minute a game D-man with a great shot and the ability to quarterback the powerplay. And he doesn't hold a candle to Coffey in his prime.

In terms of pure offense, prime time Paul Coffey was only behind Bobby Orr. Not to mention three Norris Trophies.

I think you are buying the Voynov hype way to much.

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Originally Posted by Lars H View Post
Like Voynov a lot, but I don't think his evolution makes another defenseman tradeable.

Just look at Vancouver's playoff run a couple years ago (when the Kings exposed Andrew Alberts); a club really needs a quality player at #7. Injuries are almost inevitable.
Agreed. About the only one possibly made tradeable by this is Drewiske, maybe Maryinez if we can do a deal for a roster player.

Besides, why would we want to trade Johnson? Doughty, Johnson and Voynov for another decade is far more exciting to me than any possible trade the Kings could do for Johnson.

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