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01-16-2012, 02:22 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Damn crime he's playing so little. Defensive liability rep is blown WAY out of proportion. You'd think we were talking about MAB here.
8:33 TOI last night. When MAB was here he was playing 15 - 20mins IIRC. I'd really like to see Gill/PK - Kaberle/Gorges - Emelin/Diaz. Split the top 2 to help the rest of the group. Diaz can't be #3 in TOI for D, he is, and that's not a knock on him, but I think Gill/Kaberle aren't as bad 5 on 5 if they are paired with the right partner to compensate for their flaws.

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01-16-2012, 02:29 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Let's get this straight: the last time Kaberle was a 50 point defenseman, neither of those guys in bold was playing for the Maple Leafs. Hal Gill was, though, kind of amusingly.



Logging "undeserved" minutes? I don't know why you chose to phrase it that way. All I said is that he was lucky to be on a team where he was good enough compared to everyone else to end up relied on to play big minutes. Now, looking at Toronto's record over the past 5 or 6 years, do they seem to do better the more they relied on Kaberle for minutes, or does it seem like the opposite? Toronto looks stronger defensively without him, Boston looks stronger defensively without him, and I expect we'll look back and see the pattern continue into Montreal
and our defense is so much better than the TO defense over the years? 3-4 "rookies"

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01-16-2012, 03:04 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by lxzred View Post
Now just throwing things around in my head, I can follow a lot of the complaints on the trade but inept? That's quite a stretch, and explain to me how a D plays "hard" in the offensive zone without getting caught out of position.
If people think second assist resulting from a first pass is some how unimportant or a man who has consistently posted some of the best numbers in the league is "inept" in the offensive zone...I guess there is not much to discuss....
oops... my bad, meant to write "defensively", not offensively.

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01-16-2012, 04:58 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Used properly with the right partner and Kaberle becomes a solid contributor. My ideal defensive lineup.

Markov - Gorges
Kaberle - Defensive stalwart
Emelin - Subban
Diaz

Essentially, we need a Gorges clone and we'd have a cup contending D.
kabs doesn't play because he isn't very good. He isn't a top 4 dman on any team. There is no underlying conspiracy, he sucks.

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01-16-2012, 05:04 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Woodson Hoggs View Post
I like the extra offensive power that Kaberle adds even if it's not much. My problem with him is that he adds another year and extra cash to this team's payroll. With Spacek, we would've gotten rid of an aging player. Instead, we'll have to wait another year to really make decent changes on D.
2 years.

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01-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by lxzred View Post
Now just throwing things around in my head, I can follow a lot of the complaints on the trade but inept? That's quite a stretch, and explain to me how a D plays "hard" in the offensive zone without getting caught out of position.
If people think second assist resulting from a first pass is some how unimportant or a man who has consistently posted some of the best numbers in the league is "inept" in the offensive zone...I guess there is not much to discuss....
MAB is putting up points. It doesn't make a good dman, he might be one of the worst in NHL history and Kaberle is almost as bad.

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01-16-2012, 05:12 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
He's not always a committed defender and soft but honestly is he really a worse defender than Gill or Weber at this point? He really hasn't been a liability in his own end, he's still a very intelligent player who does most of the small things right.
He's worse imo. In his own zone he promptly gives up the puck with weak play after weak play. You often see him go at the puck carrier towards the blueline get beat and take forever to get back, watch him closely, he is very bad and it reflects in his ice time.

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01-16-2012, 05:37 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
MAB is putting up points. It doesn't make a good dman, he might be one of the worst in NHL history and Kaberle is almost as bad.
I was talk offensively and moving the puck....
Thought I was pretty clear.

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01-16-2012, 05:45 PM
  #159
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Not a chance Kaberle is "almost as bad" as MAB.

That's just a laughable statement.

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01-16-2012, 06:43 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Not a chance Kaberle is "almost as bad" as MAB.

That's just a laughable statement.
I would say MAB would put forth more effort than Kaberle in the D zone. And he wasn't really afraid to muck it up. I'd much rather pay MAB 1 mil for what he brings compared to Kaberle's 4. whatever for 2 more years.

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01-16-2012, 06:53 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Not a chance Kaberle is "almost as bad" as MAB.

That's just a laughable statement.
not if you watch him play and evaluate him on his performance rather than his name. Kaberle is brutal, why do you think he barely plays? His ice time started off at his normal range when Boston acquired. Coach Julien gradually reduced his role as time went on, to the point where he wasn't even on the primary pp. Then Boston let him go without a 2nd thought, his minutes were very limited in carolina. He gets traded to us and JM barely used him in the 3rd period at all. Playing around 15minutes a night, then RC gets hired and he starts off where he left off under Martin.

This isn't a one off thing where the rookie coach is using a dman poorly, it's a trend that has been going on for some time. He is not capable of anything more 5/6th dman minutes, if he's expected to do more than that your team is in serious trouble, he's not a top 4 dman on any team. I can't believe there are some who feel he needs top 4 minutes. No way, we should of never brought him in at all.

I think he'll struggle to be in the NHL for the length of his contract.

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01-16-2012, 06:56 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I would say MAB would put forth more effort than Kaberle in the D zone. And he wasn't really afraid to muck it up. I'd much rather pay MAB 1 mil for what he brings compared to Kaberle's 4. whatever for 2 more years.
Makes me glad you aren't the one in charge, a shooter like MAB with out a PP-QB is beyond useless.

I can't believe how hard it seams to be to understand that you need a pp passer and a pp shooter, most people seam to think a shooter like MAB or Souray can replace a PP QB.

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01-17-2012, 05:27 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by lxzred View Post
Makes me glad you aren't the one in charge, a shooter like MAB with out a PP-QB is beyond useless.

I can't believe how hard it seams to be to understand that you need a pp passer and a pp shooter, most people seam to think a shooter like MAB or Souray can replace a PP QB.
I don't know where you've been the last few years, but our pp has always lacked the shooter. This was evident plain as day before the kaberle trade again. Wiz was the guy who stirred the drink last year, our pp struggled until he was acquird, then it exploded, and we let him go, so it was easy to see where the problem lied, the Wiz was gone, the same thing that's happened every year for the least 5 or 6 years held true again this year, we needed that canon.

Having a guy like wiz/souray/MAB with the howitzer at the back also makes Subbans shot more efficient. You have to cover that canon, so it frees some space away from PK, right now PK was the only threat on the pp from the back end and therefore is easily covered/restricted on what he can do.

A PP QB was not the problem as evidenced by Kaberle. He isn't helping a thing.

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01-17-2012, 06:36 AM
  #164
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I find it funny that people are saying Kaberle at 33 is declining and won't be in the NHL in two years.... clearly his age is working against him.

I wonder if these are the same people who wanted us to sign Hamrlik for 2 more years, who is 4 years older.

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01-17-2012, 06:59 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by lxzred View Post
Makes me glad you aren't the one in charge, a shooter like MAB with out a PP-QB is beyond useless.

I can't believe how hard it seams to be to understand that you need a pp passer and a pp shooter, most people seam to think a shooter like MAB or Souray can replace a PP QB.
I beg to differ. MAB was not useless. I'd say he had more of a positive and significant impact on the PP and team record than what Kaberle has had. So did Wiz. And for all of their defensive warts they played a lot more minutes than Kaberle is playing. Looking at the rankings again today the Montreal PP stands dead last in the league.

Who was the PP QB when Bergeron and Wiz were firing pucks? I think you are right in that the idea situation is to have both a PP QB and shooter. IDK - if I had to think think back in the last five or six years when the powerplay was struggling it was more because it was lacking a shooter as opposed to a PP QB. JMHO.

I remember once upon time when Markov struggled as PP QB and then the Habs acquired Schneider. Like I said ideally you have both but if one influences the Habs PP more than the other I'd say the shot is more important.

Back to the subject at hand - it just befuddles me the way Kaberle is receiving playing time. But I've been befuddled a lot this past year with this team. LOL

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01-17-2012, 07:32 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I find it funny that people are saying Kaberle at 33 is declining and won't be in the NHL in two years.... clearly his age is working against him.

I wonder if these are the same people who wanted us to sign Hamrlik for 2 more years, who is 4 years older.
His age has nothing to do with the fact that since being traded from Toronto he has gotten worse and worse

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01-17-2012, 07:55 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I would say MAB would put forth more effort than Kaberle in the D zone. And he wasn't really afraid to muck it up. I'd much rather pay MAB 1 mil for what he brings compared to Kaberle's 4. whatever for 2 more years.
Yep, I would too.

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01-17-2012, 08:13 AM
  #168
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For those saying we didn't need a QB, let me strongly disagree. Before Kaberle joined us, our zone presence was laughable.

We couldn't maintain presence in the o-zone on the power play, we'd make bad or telegraphed passed that got sent beyond the blueline, or were outright turned over provoking a breakaway.

I haven't seen these events since Kaberle is here. We may not score regularily, but at least our PP isn't a defensive liability, and we know can actually gain momentum with it!

I blame the PP's lack of success on Cammelari's an Subban's incapacity to deliver precision shots. I hope my PK gets it working again.

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01-17-2012, 08:43 AM
  #169
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He has 9 points and -1 in 16 games on this very bad team. Why do people keep bashing on him, he's playing well and his passes are incredible.

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01-17-2012, 08:47 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
His age has nothing to do with the fact that since being traded from Toronto he has gotten worse and worse
If that's the case why is he playing 200% better than the first 20 games this year?

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01-17-2012, 08:48 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
For those saying we didn't need a QB, let me strongly disagree. Before Kaberle joined us, our zone presence was laughable.

We couldn't maintain presence in the o-zone on the power play, we'd make bad or telegraphed passed that got sent beyond the blueline, or were outright turned over provoking a breakaway.

I haven't seen these events since Kaberle is here. We may not score regularily, but at least our PP isn't a defensive liability, and we know can actually gain momentum with it!

I blame the PP's lack of success on Cammelari's an Subban's incapacity to deliver precision shots. I hope my PK gets it working again.
I agree, Kaberle has been a huge upgrade at the point, he has generated a ton of scoring chances but too many have gone unconverted. We need some forwards to step up as well as Subban(or now Weber) to hit the net with their shots.

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01-17-2012, 08:51 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If that's the case why is he playing 200% better than the first 20 games this year?
200% really? If he is playing so much better then his first 20 games how do you explain his ice time actually going lower and lower? Seriously no one cares about that secondary assist he gets from time to time. With this cap hit he isn't needed here and I really hope the Habs will be able to move him once Markov comes back, but I don't think it will be possible

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01-17-2012, 08:55 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
200% really? If he is playing so much better then his first 20 games how do you explain his ice time actually going lower and lower? Seriously no one cares about that secondary assist he gets from time to time. With this cap hit he isn't needed here and I really hope the Habs will be able to move him once Markov comes back, but I don't think it will be possible
His ice time is lower because we have 4 LH d-men dressed every game the last 3 weeks. Guys like Gill and Campoli seem to be showcased for a trade and Emelin needs to play.

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01-17-2012, 08:58 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
His ice time is lower because we have 4 LH d-men dressed every game the last 3 weeks. Guys like Gill and Campoli seem to be showcased for a trade and Emelin needs to play.
And Pierre Gauthier didn't know this before trading for Kaberle? Spacek is also a lefty makes no sense CP, none what's so ever

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01-17-2012, 09:33 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
MAB is putting up points. It doesn't make a good dman, he might be one of the worst in NHL history and Kaberle is almost as bad.
You know, only a true Habs homer would suggest MAB's 24pts and +8 is terrible, on a team playing so poorly with only 5 players in the + category. Somehow these stats should place him as a terrible blueliner.... but better yet, one of the worst in NHL history.. amazing.

... better yet, Kaberle is a plus player for his career ... on incredibly bad Toronto teams and he has almost 550 pts to show for it as well.. and he belongs as one of the worst ever as well? Gotcha. No wonder people just brush opinions around here as 'garbage'

God I love the double standards around this place, it is always good for a laugh.

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