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Old
01-17-2012, 09:54 AM
  #51
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You do not trade your captain in the middle of the season when you are bound for the playoffs. It simply does not happen.
I understand, although for the right return you know it's not like we can't stay in the playoffs. Again this is certainly a business/franchise interest perspective. Only Lou knows if he can resign him or not. I personally am not with the crowd accepting a loss of Parise for nothing.

I mean whats different about keeping Parise for a playoffs and getting Kovalchuk two yrs ago before the playoffs. We didnt lose anything as far as i'm concerned, we gained a hell of lot on paper tho and we still did **** in the playoffs. So the Parise playoff connection I am not completely sold on when we do have some needs. And if we lose him for nothing were not gonna have much to trade. I dont see Lou trading away all these wonderful prospects

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01-17-2012, 10:02 AM
  #52
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Nobody is going to trade significant assets that will keep us in the playoffs (as in, multiple core players) for a rental. To do so would be to lessen their own chances.

Lou will not undermine a playoff team by trading its best player and captain. It's too much upheaval in the locker room, and it cuts off the possibility of a Cup run even before it begins. It also tells the team that Lou is hedging his bet because he doesn't think they are winners, and he doesn't think he can get Parise to stay. All bad messages for management to send.

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01-17-2012, 10:03 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
You do not trade your captain in the middle of the season when you are bound for the playoffs. It simply does not happen.
And I fully agree but if Parise does bolt for free, it will cripple this franchise for several years to come IMO. Like I've already said, losing our best player and a 1st round pick in the next couple of years can hurt us real bad since we're rebuilding on the fly.

That and the fact that our goaltender situation is a big question mark and our defense isn't getting any better. If we can land a package that includes a NHL ready youngster, prospects and picks it could solidify our team moving forward and would soften the blow. If Burke was able to land Joe Colborne, a first-round draft pick in 2011 and a conditional draft pick in 2012 for Kaberle, I can only imagine what Lou could get if he did decide to move Parise.

I would only approve of such a move if Parise is clear that he wants out. I honestly think that with the level of talent being limited in the upcoming crop of pending UFA's, Lou could snatch us a sweet package.

As much as I like Parise, he's not the player that will lead this team to a cup this year simply because we have too many holes in our current lineup.

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01-17-2012, 10:06 AM
  #54
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Parise will never tell Lou that he wants out. It simply would not be intelligent on his part, as we've discussed before.

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01-17-2012, 10:09 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Nobody is going to trade significant assets that will keep us in the playoffs (as in, multiple core players) for a rental. To do so would be to lessen their own chances.

Lou will not undermine a playoff team by trading its best player and captain. It's too much upheaval in the locker room, and it cuts off the possibility of a Cup run even before it begins. It also tells the team that Lou is hedging his bet because he doesn't think they are winners, and he doesn't think he can get Parise to stay. All bad messages for management to send.
Listen, everyone in that locker room knows the scoop. His contract is up, no body will be surprised if hes traded and everyone in the locker room knows if Lou trades him, its the best alternative he had. And he ain't bringing back garbage it would be someone to fill a top 6 role so, I wouln't be concerned about the locker room. Look at the Neiuwndyk/Langs trade, that was huge! There's too much at stake to be worried about people's feeling Lou has the future of the franchise in his hands.

In the end, there are several plays on this matter. Time will tell and we're just gonne be a patient bunch now aren't we lol

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01-17-2012, 10:13 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Parise will never tell Lou that he wants out. It simply would not be intelligent on his part, as we've discussed before.
There's more then one way to "say" you want out. If Lou tells Parise "Here's my best offer" and Zach doesn't sign the dotted line, isn't that a indication that he'll test the market and probably won't be coming back?

If he's not willing to sign Lou's best offer now, why would he sign it this summer? If he does test the market and doesn't like the offers he's getting from the 29 other teams and realises that Lou's offer wasn't all that bad in the first place, he can always pick up the phone and negotiate with Lou again.

Like NJDEVIL said, the Parise situation will determine the faith of this franchise for the upcoming years IMO. The best scenario would be for him to sign LT and the worst possible scenario would be for us to lose him for free. The in between would be to get a solid package for his services.

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01-17-2012, 10:14 AM
  #57
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Meh. I just hope he ends on a high note.

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01-17-2012, 10:19 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
There's more then one way to "say" you want out. If Lou tells Parise "Here's my best offer" and Zach doesn't sign the dotted line, isn't that a indication that he'll test the market and probably won't be coming back?
By most accounts, Lou gave Kovalchuk his "best offer" early in the FA period, but the signing wasn't resolved for weeks.

I want Zach re-signed already as much as the next Devils fan, but it is impossible to say he's declaring he wants out if Lou makes a hard play like that.

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01-17-2012, 10:24 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NJDEVIL View Post
Listen, everyone in that locker room knows the scoop. His contract is up, no body will be surprised if hes traded and everyone in the locker room knows if Lou trades him, its the best alternative he had. And he ain't bringing back garbage it would be someone to fill a top 6 role so, I wouln't be concerned about the locker room. Look at the Neiuwndyk/Langs trade, that was huge! There's too much at stake to be worried about people's feeling Lou has the future of the franchise in his hands.

In the end, there are several plays on this matter. Time will tell and we're just gonne be a patient bunch now aren't we lol
That trade was very different. Arnott and McKay were not pending UFAs, and that was a hockey trade, not a deadline rental deal. Parise is a pending UFA, and his trade would be interpreted as a rental situation. We're not going to be getting back a Nieuwendyk type in a Parise trade, and if you think we are, you're delusional.

Therefore, a Parise trade would necessarily signify that Lou is throwing in the towel on this season and obtaining future assets. He has literally never done that yet, and he is entrenched in his ways, so he won't do it now.

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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
There's more then one way to "say" you want out. If Lou tells Parise "Here's my best offer" and Zach doesn't sign the dotted line, isn't that a indication that he'll test the market and probably won't be coming back?

If he's not willing to sign Lou's best offer now, why would he sign it this summer? If he does test the market and doesn't like the offers he's getting from the 29 other teams and realises that Lou's offer wasn't all that bad in the first place, he can always pick up the phone and negotiate with Lou again.

Like NJDEVIL said, the Parise situation will determine the faith of this franchise for the upcoming years IMO. The best scenario would be for him to sign LT and the worst possible scenario would be for us to lose him for free. The in between would be to get a solid package for his services.
If you believe the reports from TG and Chere and McKenzie over the crap from Eklund and Garrioch, Parise's agents and Lou have not even started to negotiate. There is no mythical offered contract for him to reject. Meanwhile, in the media he continues to say that he wants to stay if the money is right and if the Devils can contend in the near future. That is not a player who has told his GM in any way that he wants out.

Lou clearly does not view this as an either or situation like you do, where we either trade him now or lose him for nothing. He must think there is still a good chance of retaining Parise even if he is unsigned past the trade deadline. Keeping Parise in the hopes of a successful playoff run is not a stupid move, it is in fact the move I want my GM to make. Devils fans should know by now that there are rewards to never giving up on a season, like last year.

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01-17-2012, 10:41 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
If you believe the reports from TG and Chere and McKenzie over the crap from Eklund and Garrioch, Parise's agents and Lou have not even started to negotiate. There is no mythical offered contract for him to reject. Meanwhile, in the media he continues to say that he wants to stay if the money is right and if the Devils can contend in the near future. That is not a player who has told his GM in any way that he wants out.

Lou clearly does not view this as an either or situation like you do, where we either trade him now or lose him for nothing. He must think there is still a good chance of retaining Parise even if he is unsigned past the trade deadline. Keeping Parise in the hopes of a successful playoff run is not a stupid move, it is in fact the move I want my GM to make. Devils fans should know by now that there are rewards to never giving up on a season, like last year.
First off, I take anything that's said by the media, the player himself or Lou with a grain of salt. I've never seen a pending UFA go public by saying he'll bolt at the end of the year, I've never seen any reporters come up with a scoop about our team and as we all know, Lou will never show his hand, ever.

If you think Lou and Parise's agent haven't spoken to each other yet, I don't know what to tell you. I doubt very much that Lou is letting this situation slide along whitout really knowing what's going on with his best player and the face of our franchise for years to come (if he stays of course) but that's just me. When he spoke out last summer about having no problems talking contract with Parise's people during the year, that's a pretty big indication that Lou wants to lock him up cause as we all know, that's not his MO.

I just hope that Lou will see the big picture for this organisation instead of a pipedream that has us going all the way with a mediocre blueline and a aging goaltending duo.

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01-17-2012, 10:52 AM
  #61
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It's still during the season. Lou didn't say when during the season he'd be talking to them. Parise, his agent, and Lou have all confirmed to the media that there has been no discussion yet. Personally it wouldn't surprise me if the deadline passes, Parise is still here, and there still has not been any discussion reported.

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01-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #62
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No problem in Marty playing another season if he wants. 60-65 games if healthy.

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01-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #63
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They're definitely talking, whoever thinks they haven't is not thinking clearly. That is maybe the one thing that is for sure.

With a possible lockout looming, how many teams are likely to give Zach a big contract? Would teams be willing to wait for that issue to sort itself out before signing anyone big?

I definitely think ownership is a big factor if not all of it, i think enough of the situation has been exposed to see that much. I suspect if Parise isn't traded come deadline, he will be signed, and maybe they wait for the seasons end just to sign the damn thing but there's no way Lou loses him for nothing. Not a chance in hell! and if he does, I'll gladly take the ridicule at seasons end, because that just means Lou has lost his mind.

There's no way to presume we'd be primed for a cup. There's so many things wrong with this team, no playoff run outside of a cup is worth losing him for nothing. If you ain't got a cup it don't matter how far you've gotten it would be a waste, we can still compete without him given whatever return we get.

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01-17-2012, 11:09 AM
  #64
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They're definitely talking, whoever thinks they haven't is not thinking clearly. That is maybe the one thing that is for sure.

With a possible lockout looming, how many teams are likely to give Zach a big contract? Would teams be willing to wait for that issue to sort itself out before signing anyone big?

I definitely think ownership is a big factor if not all of it, i think enough of the situation has been exposed to see that much. I suspect if Parise isn't traded come deadline, he will be signed, and maybe they wait for the seasons end just to sign the damn thing but there's no way Lou loses him for nothing. Not a chance in hell! and if he does, I'll gladly take the ridicule at seasons end, because that just means Lou has lost his mind.

There's no way to presume we'd be primed for a cup. There's so many things wrong with this team, no playoff run outside of a cup is worth losing him for nothing. If you ain't got a cup it don't matter how far you've gotten it would be a waste, we can still compete without him given whatever return we get.
We should move this elsewhere since it's the Marty thread... just saying

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01-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #65
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i know i realized that a while ago sorry

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01-17-2012, 12:04 PM
  #66
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Backup role.

.903 last year, .894 this year... Not to reignite the "stats vs. watching him play" argument but either way you look at him he's clearly not a starting goalie anymore.

It will suck when he retires but it should be after this season, and if not, the most he should see is backup duty. If he does retire, we'd be able to make a move for a decent stopgap starter for a year or two while said goalie mentors Kinkaid.

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01-17-2012, 12:10 PM
  #67
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First off, I take anything that's said by the media, the player himself or Lou with a grain of salt. I've never seen a pending UFA go public by saying he'll bolt at the end of the year, I've never seen any reporters come up with a scoop about our team and as we all know, Lou will never show his hand, ever.
Kovalchuk basically did exactly this.

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01-17-2012, 12:16 PM
  #68
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Kovalchuk basically did exactly this.
Not this early in the season though. (I am aware he wasn't traded here yet.) He only said he was definitely testing the market after the 2010 draft, if I remember correctly.

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01-17-2012, 12:19 PM
  #69
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Not this early in the season though. (I am aware he wasn't traded here yet.) He only said he was definitely testing the market after the 2010 draft, if I remember correctly.
And then rejected a $10M a year deal to stay in Atlanta. He made it known he was bolting at that point and that opened up the trade lines.

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01-17-2012, 12:30 PM
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And then rejected a $10M a year deal to stay in Atlanta. He made it known he was bolting at that point and that opened up the trade lines.
Ya, but that was in Atlanta, and there were other factors involved there. I'm talking about Kovalchuk and Parise in regards to their UFA seasons as Devils.

Your point is valid though, Kovalchuk publicly rejected a contract and waffled about staying. Parise has not rejected a contract at all because the official story is that they haven't negotiated, and Parise has repeatedly said he wants to stay.

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01-17-2012, 12:32 PM
  #71
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Thread about Marty

Talk about Parise

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01-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #72
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Kovalchuk basically did exactly this.
True... but when you've been playing in the league for close to 10 years and made the playoffs once while getting the **** kicked out of you in that only SCP series, it's only normal for a player of his stature to look elsewhere when turning UFA. That's whitout even bringing up the state of the team at the time.

Parise isn't part of a miserable franchise and we missed the playoffs once in the past 15 years, so both situations aren't exactly the same but I get your point.

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Ya, but that was in Atlanta, and there were other factors involved there. I'm talking about Kovalchuk and Parise in regards to their UFA seasons as Devils.

Your point is valid though, Kovalchuk publicly rejected a contract and waffled about staying. Parise has not rejected a contract at all because the official story is that they haven't negotiated, and Parise has repeatedly said he wants to stay.
Once again, anything coming from the mouth of Parise/Lou and anyone else should be taken with a grain of salt. Lou won't show his hand, Parise won't shoot himself in the foot publicly and anyone who thinks they know something regarding our team has as good of a guess as this entire board does.

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01-17-2012, 01:15 PM
  #73
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and Puck Daddy weighs in after the Post article.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...CIsCP2lox7vLYF

Quote:
There's no ready solution if he hangs 'em up. The Devils' style of play could turn an average goalie into an above-average one — hello, Scott Clemmensen — as a stop-gap. But there's no one ready to inherit the throne, as if anyone could hope to fit that crown.

He's the franchise, from the achievements to the system in front of him. It's always been about Marty, and Marty's always been about the Devils. As his skills diminished and the end nears, that hasn't changed.

It's not how we'll remember him, but it's how we're likely going to see him. Yet he's earned the right to drink up well past the expiration date. And, hopefully, the chance to shut me up with one last run.

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01-17-2012, 01:21 PM
  #74
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and Puck Daddy weighs in after the Post article.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...CIsCP2lox7vLYF
I agree with his contention that it's tough to see the immediate future beyond Marty. He seems to be saying the same things as we are. Marty has earned the right to stay as long as he wants, but he's no longer consistent enough to keep the starting role.

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01-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #75
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I just worry that our murky goaltending future will make it hard to attract a stud UFA this offseason...Like Ryan Suter

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