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Is Mikko a #1 Center?

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Old
01-14-2012, 04:38 PM
  #176
nickschultzfan
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Of course he's a #1 centerman.

We just don't have a #2 centerman. Which in many ways is more critical, because most teams have a #1 center, but not a #2 center.

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01-14-2012, 06:44 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The top 5 would. For the rest, it depends upon what you consider "better." Many of them would improve the scoring on the team, but also increase the goals against. It would make the team capable of scoring more but less likely to win overall. That's how this team is structured.

Now get over your Heatley ******** and find another thread to troll.
What I am doing here is talking hockey. You need to get over this internet term of "troll" if you really are interested in posting on HFBoards. You are in violation of derailing a thread, not me.

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01-14-2012, 07:14 PM
  #178
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#1 centers can be great all around players and do everything good but the good teams in the league need their #1's to score. A team is supposed to be made up of different elements which address the issues needed to win. You need role players and depth.

In Ottawa we had this problem with Mike Fisher. Half the fan base thought he was a good #2 center and the other half said no he was a crappy 2nd line center but a GREAT 3rd line center. We had him in the #2 position for almost 3 seasons and his stats proved he was not. People couldn't get over the fact of how he played and how good he was in the community and everything else. He was paid like a 2nd line centre, had the minutes, but just couldn't produce. for 2 - 2.5 million he would have been great. For 4.2 he was overpaid. No matter who he played with on that line his stats remained the same. He was criticized for having tunnel vision and not making his line mates better. He was traded to a team in Nashville with questionable #1 and an average #2. When you look at his numbers this season he is on par with what he normally averages.The fact remained we had no secondline center and he won that position by default.

I think Koivu is no different. When a team is bad you try and fill holes with the best solutions you have. Koivu is a good player put in a position that no one else can fill. His brother was in the same position in Montreal BUT they where winning. The guy was good but not great. He was the Captain and they chose not to resign him.

You can still be a #1 center and suck in the faceoff circle. You can be a #1 center and suck on defense. Your first line is paid to produce points and if you want to win long term those top players have to have to improve in the areas which need improvement.

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01-14-2012, 07:33 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Generic User View Post
I just knew something about this post was gonna bait me, and this is it. Even when you're conceding your point you are still wrong. In what world does having a well coached team eliminate the need for a 1st line/or even 2nd line Center?
The NHL world. Nashville, Florida, and St. Louis are all doing it this season and are all in playoff positions. They have very well coached teams. Now, does it mean they will go far in the playoffs? probably not. Even well coached teams succumb to skill. Effort is the X factor. Most first round upsets are just that, effort.

Nashville makes the playoffs every year but that's it. Out in the first or second round because coaching can only take you so far.



Never said you don't need a 2nd line center.

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01-15-2012, 12:11 PM
  #180
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Hope Mikko doesn't require surgery on that shoulder again. Last time he injured his shoulder he's never been the same player since.

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01-16-2012, 08:23 AM
  #181
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I find topics like this to be pretty humorous. You can absolutely win consistently with Koivu as the team's #1 center so that's all I really care about. I have no qualms about him in that type of role. Now we get to watch what it's really like without a #1 guy, that'll be fun...

You know what you can't win at a high level with?

Spurgeon being the team's top defenseman. Or just basically the entire defensive line-up. Can't do it.


As far as the prospects go, I just can't see Granlund playing center in the NHL. Nor do I want him to. I'd like to not see him have expanded defensive duties so he lags behind the play. I want to see a player with his possession skills play the wing so the team can maintain possession into the offensive zone. Coyle could go either way and I think it'll depend on how well he thinks the game. I haven't seen enough of him but I don't believe that's his strong suit and he likely fits in better on the wing. I absolutely think and want Larsson playing center. He's got the sturdy frame, good enough skating, and sound puck movement for the position. I believe Phillips is a wing at the next level.

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01-16-2012, 09:58 AM
  #182
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Rebuilding or not, the Wild got dealt an absolute crap hand in terms of injuries. Nobody can sustain injuries to 2-3 top six players and cruise right along.

But there are so many holes in the lineup, #1 center is not the priority. Team needs two high end defensemen and at least two scoring wingers in addition to getting Bouchard back and healthy.

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01-16-2012, 10:29 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Rebuilding or not, the Wild got dealt an absolute crap hand in terms of injuries. Nobody can sustain injuries to 2-3 top six players and cruise right along.

But there are so many holes in the lineup, #1 center is not the priority. Team needs two high end defensemen and at least two scoring wingers in addition to getting Bouchard back and healthy.
It seems like every year something goes wrong with the team and they can't get to the top or stay there.

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01-16-2012, 10:42 AM
  #184
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Team needs two high end defensemen and at least two scoring wingers in addition to getting Bouchard back and healthy.
Agreed. Sounds easy enough..

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01-16-2012, 10:45 AM
  #185
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Brodin and Granlund are two. Go hard after Parise and Suter in the offseason. I still think the Wild need to go after some quality PMD's though. I would definitely be throwing Coyle, Larsson, Phillips, Zucker out there if it's a blue chip defensive prospect. We have half a dozen high end forward and goalie prospects and only one defensive prospect. Wild needs to get going next year.

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01-16-2012, 09:32 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Brodin and Granlund are two. Go hard after Parise and Suter in the offseason. I still think the Wild need to go after some quality PMD's though. I would definitely be throwing Coyle, Larsson, Phillips, Zucker out there if it's a blue chip defensive prospect. We have half a dozen high end forward and goalie prospects and only one defensive prospect. Wild needs to get going next year.
Personally, I'd want to keep Coyle. I have a feeling about him possibly becoming a franchise-type player.

Only player I'd want for any combination of Larsson/Phillips/Zucker/roster players would be Dougie Hamilton - and I don't see him getting pried away from Boston anytime soon.

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01-17-2012, 03:15 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
But there are so many holes in the lineup, #1 center is not the priority.
Center should be a priority. We have been lacking a top line center since 2000.

I have high hopes for Granlund but we can't simply put all our eggs in one basket.

Koivu is not durable nor proven enough to be warranted top line center.

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01-17-2012, 05:04 AM
  #188
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Mikko Koivu doesn't put up points like a lot of #1 centers do across the league.

He's never hit 30 goals, but has put up a rather solid assist count the past 3 seasons. The overall lack of points is what I think prevents people from calling him a #1. How many other teams would he be a #1 on?

But as this providence points up - the Wild are winning while he's playing in that role, so he's getting the job done and if that's the case, who the hell are we (non Wild fans) to be critical of the guy or the team.

Of course playoff success as been limited in Minnesota so I would argue that he's not necessarily getting the job done when it matters and an upgrade is needed; but he's been so consistent as a Wild.

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01-17-2012, 10:42 AM
  #189
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He's definitely the best overall forward on the team, so the Wild are much better with him in the lineup than without:

Since 2008-09, win percentage:
With: 0.544
Without: 0.375

If Mikko hadn't missed a game over the last four years and the win percentage bore out, our point totals would be:

2008-09: 90pts (89 act)
2009-10: 84pts (84 act)
2010-11: 88pts (86 act)
2011-12: 55pts (51 act)

Statistically, Mikko's absence hasn't caused the Wild to miss the playoffs...yet.

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01-17-2012, 11:00 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
He's definitely the best overall forward on the team, so the Wild are much better with him in the lineup than without:

Since 2008-09, win percentage:
With: 0.544
Without: 0.375

If Mikko hadn't missed a game over the last four years and the win percentage bore out, our point totals would be:

2008-09: 90pts (89 act)
2009-10: 84pts (84 act)
2010-11: 88pts (86 act)
2011-12: 55pts (51 act)

Statistically, Mikko's absence hasn't caused the Wild to miss the playoffs...yet.
We've also seen he returns before he's able to make a large impact. How would factoring the first 3-5 games after his return as missed games affect your winning % numbers?

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01-17-2012, 12:29 PM
  #191
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2008-09: W, OTL, W, L, W, W, W
2009-10: W, L, L, OTL, L, W, OTL
2010-11: L, L, OTL, L, L, L, W, W, L, L, L, W, W
2011-12: L, OTL, W, L, L, L, W, L, OTL

Aside from 08-09, when it was mostly Gabby who took over auditioning for a long term contract, it's been hit or miss.

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