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Does Torrey Mitchell know he is useless??

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Old
01-11-2012, 01:29 PM
  #151
TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Either way I would rather see the tweener on the Joes line and move Marleau down first.
This.

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01-11-2012, 01:31 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Of course. I guess the real question is speculative - who could we likely attain and would that player fit better on the 1st or 2nd line?

Here's my running list:

Attainable (wouldn't break the bank) and good fits?

Stempniak
Downie
Cogliano (fit as an F1?)

Moss
Tagliardi
Ryan Jones
Nielsen (fit as F1? May push Zeus to 4th line C)
Korpikoski (attainable only if Coyotes are out of the playoffs)
Purcell (doesn't seem like an F1)

Good fits but require more assets
Ruutu
Glencross (would require overpay)
Foligno
Korpikoski is probably the best fit of the cheapies.

Foligno, too slow. Ruutu, meh. Glencross borderline for JT.

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01-11-2012, 01:47 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Then please do tell his usefulness Anyone else would be fine..Give one of the young guys a shot at Mitchell's position..WE LOSE NOTHING by trying one of the younger guys. Who did McGinn play with down in Worchester?? Let his linemate from last year give it a try, like 10 games, none of this 2 game crap and out the window(directed at the Koala). And Tmac needs to quit tinkering w/ the 4th line. Leave well enough alone..
Calling an NHL player useless is total hyperbole so me telling you anything about Mitchell is also useless.

You should learn about the 'young guys'...Darryl hasn't been posting the line combos lately but I'm pretty sure Ferriero/Wingels/McCarthy were Worcesters top line.

The Sharks have already tried Wingels and Ferriero on the 3rd line, both were as "useless" as Mitchell. McCarthy isn't ready for the NHL. My point was that Mitchell is the best option the Sharks have right now. I'd ask 210 to chime in here about who might fill in an NHL spot better but I already know what he's going to say

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01-11-2012, 02:12 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Of course. I guess the real question is speculative - who could we likely attain and would that player fit better on the 1st or 2nd line?

Here's my running list:

Attainable (wouldn't break the bank) and good fits?

Stempniak
Downie
Cogliano (fit as an F1?)

Moss
Tagliardi
Ryan Jones
Nielsen (fit as F1? May push Zeus to 4th line C)
Korpikoski (attainable only if Coyotes are out of the playoffs)
Purcell (doesn't seem like an F1)

Good fits but require more assets
Ruutu
Glencross (would require overpay)
Foligno
I'm guessing Tagliardi is TJ Galiardi? Not sure he really fits what the Sharks need.

You should move Nielsen, Purcell & Ryan Jones into the 'require more assets' column. It sounds like NYI want to keep Nielsen (re-sign him) and Jones & Purcell are both performing well and have another year on their contracts. I should point out that when I say 'require more assets' I mean more than a draft pick and/or middling prospect.

You should remove Korpikoski from the list entirely, Phoenix has no reason to trade a good 25 year old player on a great contract who will still be a RFA when it expires.

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01-11-2012, 02:18 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
I'm guessing Tagliardi is TJ Galiardi? Not sure he really fits what the Sharks need.

You should move Nielsen, Purcell & Ryan Jones into the 'require more assets' column. It sounds like NYI want to keep Nielsen (re-sign him) and Jones & Purcell are both performing well and have another year on their contracts. I should point out that when I say 'require more assets' I mean more than a draft pick and/or middling prospect.

You should remove Korpikoski from the list entirely, Phoenix has no reason to trade a good 25 year old player on a great contract who will still be a RFA when it expires.
Thanks, yeah, meant Galiardi. Had Tangradi in my mind for some reason.

I can see it being tough to acquire Purcell or Jones. Nielsen will be a tough one - all depends on if he wants to re-up with the Islanders.

Looking at the list again with your updates, there aren't a ton of options out there for us... it seems.

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01-11-2012, 02:29 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Thanks, yeah, meant Galiardi. Had Tangradi in my mind for some reason.

I can see it being tough to acquire Purcell or Jones. Nielsen will be a tough one - all depends on if he wants to re-up with the Islanders.

Looking at the list again with your updates, there aren't a ton of options out there for us... it seems.
There's definitely options, the guys on your list even if they're not actually available are all obviously upgrades for the 3rd (some 2nd) line. It really just depends on the asking price and whether or not Wilson wants to pay it.

Really, I've been wanting Nielsen on this team for the past 3 years and would be willing to move a 2nd + (more picks/prospects) for him even if, as a rental, he's technically worth that much.

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01-11-2012, 05:38 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Thanks, yeah, meant Galiardi. Had Tangradi in my mind for some reason.

I can see it being tough to acquire Purcell or Jones. Nielsen will be a tough one - all depends on if he wants to re-up with the Islanders.

Looking at the list again with your updates, there aren't a ton of options out there for us... it seems.
Galiardi is Landeskog's BFF. That combined with the inexplicable successful streak Colorado's been on in spite of Sacco's godawful coaching, I don't think they'll be looking to move him. They don't need a goalie(s), and they don't need speedy-but-offensively-challenged guys like Mitchell. Also, while Gali's okay (had a great year in '09-'10 when the Avs did oddly well, but otherwise hasn't topped 15 points), I don't think he's the missing piece.

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01-11-2012, 09:15 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Calling an NHL player useless is total hyperbole so me telling you anything about Mitchell is also useless.

You should learn about the 'young guys'...Darryl hasn't been posting the line combos lately but I'm pretty sure Ferriero/Wingels/McCarthy were Worcesters top line.

The Sharks have already tried Wingels and Ferriero on the 3rd line, both were as "useless" as Mitchell. McCarthy isn't ready for the NHL. My point was that Mitchell is the best option the Sharks have right now. I'd ask 210 to chime in here about who might fill in an NHL spot better but I already know what he's going to say
Well telling me I should learn about the young guys is a mute point currently. Not every Sharks fan on HF is a hockey buff on Sharks AHL players, hence why I asked who McGinn played with last year in Worcester. There was bound to be some chemistry so why not try it on the NHL level.
Todd has yet to give Wingles or Ferriero a real chance, sporadic 2-4 games stints, you cant give these kids 2 -4 games to find a groove. Todd always moves them around after a bad game or two instead of just giving them 8-10 games to try and find their game and for their teamates to gain some chemistry.. The bottom line for me is Mitchell brings very little and the 8-10 games that Wingles/Ferriero/other could try in Torrey's spot can only better our chances for a more effective 3rd line. If it fails then we can move on no worse for wear.

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01-11-2012, 10:25 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Cogliano (fit as an F1?)
Do we really want another Mitchell?

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01-16-2012, 03:52 PM
  #160
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Marleau-Thronton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
McGinn-Handzus-Ferreio


That would work for me. The 4th line is a toss up.

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01-16-2012, 04:18 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Outlaw View Post
Marleau-Thronton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
McGinn-Handzus-Ferreio


That would work for me. The 4th line is a toss up.
The Sharks are not winning the cup with Ferry, Wingels, or Mitchell in the top 9. Ferry and Wingels are AHL all-stars but I don't want to count on them for the third line of a championship contending team.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Acquisition-Couture-Clowe
McGinn-Handzus-Havlat
Winchester-Desjardins-Murray

I might lean towards Havlat with Clowe and Couture since Havlat can't really carry a line but Havlat could be dangerous against 3rd pairing d-men.

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01-16-2012, 04:21 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
The Sharks are not winning the cup with Ferry, Wingels, or Mitchell in the top 9. Ferry and Wingels are AHL all-stars but I don't want to count on them for the third line of a championship contending team.

Acquisition-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Clowe
McGinn-Handzus-Havlat
Winchester-Desjardins-Murray
FIFY

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Old
01-16-2012, 04:32 PM
  #163
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Benny could be a legit 3rd liner IMO. He goes hard to the net and picks up those dirty rebound goals in the slot. He is far better than Mitchell in that 3rd line RW position.

In a perfect world, acquiring a better player for the 3rd line would be the best option. Trade Braun/Nitty for a bonafide 3rd line winger and re-sign White.

Marleau-Thronton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
McGinn-Handzus- ???
Winchester-Desijardins-Ferrieo

Vlassic-Burns
Murray-Boyle
White-Demers

Neimi
Griess

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Old
01-16-2012, 05:32 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
FIFY
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Outlaw View Post
Benny could be a legit 3rd liner IMO. He goes hard to the net and picks up those dirty rebound goals in the slot. He is far better than Mitchell in that 3rd line RW position.
Ferriero is not an NHLer no matter which way you slice it. He is not smart enough to make up for his size like Pavelski, Couture, etc. He's not much better than Mitchell and not much better than Mitchell is not going to cut it. We need a real top-9er to come in or we won't go anywhere. See how ineffective Ferriero was against Columbus, Chicago? He dragged down the whole line because he isn't strong enough to maintain a cycle and he isn't smart enough to go to the right areas. I agree with LZ, it should be:

Acquisition-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Clowe
McGinn-Handzus-Havlat
Winchester-Desjardins-A. Murray

Depending on the quality of the acquisition (doesn't have to be a premier player, but someone who can keep up with JT/Pavs (ie not Mitchell or Ferriero) and forecheck) that is a SCF quality forward corps. Added to our excellent defense and goaltending, I think we'd stand a decent chance. I just wish we could have last year's forward depth and this year's defense, but obviously you have to give to get. I just really really wish we'd kept Wellwood. I think DW (fairly, albeit) underestimated Zeus and McGinn's offense and didn't believe we had a chance to have a third scoring line without Pavs playing center.

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Old
01-16-2012, 07:23 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Calling an NHL player useless is total hyperbole so me telling you anything about Mitchell is also useless.

You should learn about the 'young guys'...Darryl hasn't been posting the line combos lately but I'm pretty sure Ferriero/Wingels/McCarthy were Worcesters top line.

The Sharks have already tried Wingels and Ferriero on the 3rd line, both were as "useless" as Mitchell.
Just so I'm clear, we're talking about the Ferriero that has 5 goals in 16 games this year versus Torrey's 4 in 38 right? The one who's shooting percentage is almost twice Mitchell's and who is actually a threat to put the puck in the net when he gets it in a scoring position? We're talking about that guy, right?

Ferry has his issues and he's never gonna be a superstar, but he adds a lot more to that line than Mitchell does right now. The only thing he lacks is NHL experience, which guys don't get riding the bus in the AHL. Mitchell has had plenty of time to show what he could do, and all he's shown is that he has 4th line skills in a 1st/2nd line body.

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01-16-2012, 07:29 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Just so I'm clear, we're talking about the Ferriero that has 5 goals in 16 games this year versus Torrey's 4 in 38 right? The one who's shooting percentage is almost twice Mitchell's and who is actually a threat to put the puck in the net when he gets it in a scoring position? We're talking about that guy, right?

Ferry has his issues and he's never gonna be a superstar, but he adds a lot more to that line than Mitchell does right now. The only thing he lacks is NHL experience, which guys don't get riding the bus in the AHL. Mitchell has had plenty of time to show what he could do, and all he's shown is that he has 4th line skills in a 1st/2nd line body.
Ferriero has had some success playing next to Couture and Clowe (and sometimes Thornton) but he showed absolutely nothing when away from the top two lines. He's not a player I'd want on the 3rd line.

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01-16-2012, 07:32 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Ferriero is not an NHLer no matter which way you slice it. He is not smart enough to make up for his size like Pavelski, Couture, etc.
Again, you guys are referring to the Ferriero who has a higher goal per game this year than Pavelski averaged before this season, and he's doing it with half the ice time, right?. That guy? The one that, per minute on the ice, is the highest goal scoring player on the Sharks so far this year? That guy?

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01-16-2012, 07:39 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Ferriero has had some success playing next to Couture and Clowe (and sometimes Thornton) but he showed absolutely nothing when away from the top two lines. He's not a player I'd want on the 3rd line.
You could make the same argument about Clowe.

Personally, if everyone's healthy, I agree, Havlat, McGinn and Handzus should be our third line, but if they're not, I'd play Ferry over Mitchell all day and twice on Sunday.

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01-16-2012, 07:40 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Again, you guys are referring to the Ferriero who has a higher goal per game this year than Pavelski averaged before this season, and he's doing it with half the ice time, right?. That guy? The one that, per minute on the ice, is the highest goal scoring player on the Sharks so far this year? That guy?
He's getting lucky, there is no if and or but about it. I don't care what numbers he put up in his 16 games up here. When we recalled him, knowing that after we played him one game that he'd be subject to waivers if we tried to send him down again, we knew that he'd be here until Havlat returns. However, that wasn't a good idea because Ferriero always scores a bunch of goals when he first comes up and then NOTHING for a long period of time until he gets sent down again. He has decent hands and decent speed and a lot of effort, but that is not enough to overcome his other short comings.

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01-16-2012, 09:20 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Again, you guys are referring to the Ferriero who has a higher goal per game this year than Pavelski averaged before this season, and he's doing it with half the ice time, right?. That guy? The one that, per minute on the ice, is the highest goal scoring player on the Sharks so far this year? That guy?
It's always amusing when people who make a huge show of being averse to stats in hockey readily embrace the numbers when they support their argument. And by "support" I mean "are capable of being grossly twisted and misinterpreted so that they appear to support."

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01-17-2012, 11:53 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
He's getting lucky, there is no if and or but about it. I don't care what numbers he put up in his 16 games up here. When we recalled him, knowing that after we played him one game that he'd be subject to waivers if we tried to send him down again, we knew that he'd be here until Havlat returns. However, that wasn't a good idea because Ferriero always scores a bunch of goals when he first comes up and then NOTHING for a long period of time until he gets sent down again. He has decent hands and decent speed and a lot of effort, but that is not enough to overcome his other short comings.
Torrey Mitchell must just not be lucky.

Ferry's goals have been spread out so far this season, and he scored a pretty important goal last playoffs IIRC. Playing almost no minutes on the 4th line, getting 3 shots in 8 games, and one of them went in the net. As opposed to Mitchell who got 33 shots, playing 18 games, getting 2.5 times as many minutes a game and scored...1 goal. And a meaningless goal at that in a first round blowout win. Torrey must just not be as lucky.

I'd play the luckier guy, but that's me.

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01-17-2012, 03:13 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Torrey Mitchell must just not be lucky.

Ferry's goals have been spread out so far this season, and he scored a pretty important goal last playoffs IIRC. Playing almost no minutes on the 4th line, getting 3 shots in 8 games, and one of them went in the net. As opposed to Mitchell who got 33 shots, playing 18 games, getting 2.5 times as many minutes a game and scored...1 goal. And a meaningless goal at that in a first round blowout win. Torrey must just not be as lucky.

I'd play the luckier guy, but that's me.
Ferriero's goal was a fluke shot off of Brad Stuart's stick. I don't like either Mitchell or Ferriero, but it's just too obvious the bad effect he has on everyone he plays with.

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