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Old
01-17-2012, 10:43 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
This is my feeling as well. He clearly isn't holding the rookies to the same standard as the veterans.
Nor does any other coach of a winning team. Everyone pretends this is something new or exclusive to the Pens.

That bench got really really short as the game wore on, as it should have in such a fast paced game. The Pens were dictating as the game wore on, and Tangradi not playing is our major beef?

Dustin Jeffrey is exhibit A as far as I'm concerned. Played on the 4th line last year, showed improvement with his skating and definitely has a high hockey IQ. He worked his way up, and now he's proving his worth and played almost 20 minutes tonight.

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01-17-2012, 10:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Benching Tangradi is stupid but after this game if he scratches Vitale I'm going to start to doubt his decision making process. I mean he plays Ray Shero hockey to a T.
Vitale definitely deserves to be in over Tangradi after the performance he put on tonight.

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01-17-2012, 10:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
+'s

Malkin
Neal
Fleury
Orpik
Vitale

='s
Martin
Dupuis - played well but missed too many chances
Kennedy - same
Tangradi - its not that he's bad...its just that he doesn't bring enough to the table to warrant being in over someone else.

-'s

Refs
Skinner possibly being hurt

Sullivan - Is this guy not just completely useless? I honestly do not see how he should be in over anyone...especially when Asham is back. Even as a 4th line / PP guy. Just...a waste of cap space IMHO.
This is the one thing that actually scares me about Sid returning. It means Sully back with Geno and Neal, and I'm getting to the point where I think having Sully for a linemate would do more to shut those two down than the opposition can.

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01-17-2012, 10:45 PM
  #54
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Huge props to skinner. What an enjoyable player and a great young man.

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01-17-2012, 10:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Nor does any other coach of a winning team. Everyone pretends this is something new or exclusive to the Pens.

That bench got really really short as the game wore on, as it should have in such a fast paced game. The Pens were dictating as the game wore on, and Tangradi not playing is our major beef?

Dustin Jeffrey is exhibit A as far as I'm concerned. Played on the 4th line last year, showed improvement with his skating and definitely has a high hockey IQ. He worked his way up, and now he's proving his worth and played almost 20 minutes tonight.
I'm not calling for Bylsma to be fired over it so cool your jets. I'm just annoyed as to how they are treating him. You can't bench a rookie for one bad shift. The next time he goes out there he's just going to play timid and worry about not making another mistake.

Then the times that he actually does play well and produce some offense, he doesn't get rewarded at all. That's not how you develop a player. If that's how they are going to treat him then send him back down to WBS or trade him.

Plus he was benched long before the game got ramped up. He was benched in the 2nd period, and only got a few more shifts the rest of the game.

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01-17-2012, 10:46 PM
  #56
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Once again, people just completely ignore the 30 nasty plays that Martin makes look easy. It is always the one or two he slips up on. Don't get me wrong, he needs to cut down on the horrid mistakes, but every defenseman makes mistakes. My only problem with him is his offensive game. I know he is never going to score a ton of goals, but this is the 2nd or 3rd time he has missed a yawning net. He has to put that home. Puck at feet or not.
One or two don't bug me. Anyone on defense is going to make one or two. I was highly complimentary lately, but tonight wasn't up to snuff. A few of the pinches were pretty ugly, where the puck ended up on the stick of Ponikauseless. If he'd pushed the play, it would have meant a few 2 on 1's or 3 on 2's against.

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01-17-2012, 10:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He trusts Vets more. He'll give them opportunities to make up for their mistakes.

I was hoping Tangradi could get on the scoresheet playing with Vitale. Really don't understand what's so horrible about giving him a few shifts a game with Jeffrey and Malkin to get his confidence and production going.
I do recall him getting a couple of shifts with Jeffrey in this game. I also remember his getting some top 6 shifts in past games. That absolutely has happened.

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01-17-2012, 10:48 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Vitale slipped a bit for more than a few games. What he did tonight is what earned him his roster spot in the first place. Simple as that.
Yup. Very convenient that people are leaving that part out. For a good stretch there, I didn't notice a single thing he did out there and didn't do half of what he did tonight. He was awesome.

But again, we're complaining about our 4th liners when we have a ton of other concerns, like the fact that our lack touch around the net was what got the game to a shootout to begin with. Soooo many missed chances, I really thought it would burn us in the end.

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01-17-2012, 10:48 PM
  #59
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+ I don't know if it was the losing streak or what, but the Pens have that chip on their shoulder again and I love it. And no, I'm not just talking about the fights.

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01-17-2012, 10:50 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I'm not calling for Bylsma to be fired over it so cool your jets. I'm just annoyed as to how they are treating him. You can't bench a rookie for one bad shift. The next time he goes out there he's just going to play timid and worry about not making another mistake.

Then the times that he actually does play well and produce some offense, he doesn't get rewarded at all. That's not how you develop a player. If that's how they are going to treat him then send him back down to WBS or trade him.
I don't think it's unfair to say that. MTLPensFan used the Jeffrey example, so let's look at Jeffrey. Say Asham comes back. That means, I think we'll all agree, that Tangradi is going to WBS. BUT, what if Staal came back tomorrow? You think Bylsma sits Park or Sullivan? I mean, I prefer Jeffrey to either of those two, but it's pretty clear that Bylsma has a major hard on when it comes to his useless vets up front.

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01-17-2012, 10:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Killahpunk View Post
- Cooke, he isn't offering much right now he's not scoring, he's not hitting, and he's not even agitating. I would play Vitale over Cooke when Asham returns.
That 3rd line of Cooke-Park-Sullivan is albatross!

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01-17-2012, 10:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I don't think it's unfair to say that. MTLPensFan used the Jeffrey example, so let's look at Jeffrey. Say Asham comes back. That means, I think we'll all agree, that Tangradi is going to WBS. BUT, what if Staal came back tomorrow? You think Bylsma sits Park or Sullivan? I mean, I prefer Jeffrey to either of those two, but it's pretty clear that Bylsma has a major hard on when it comes to his useless vets up front.
It will be interesting to see how Bylsma uses Jeffrey when Staal comes back, and then what happens if Sid ever comes back? I'd say move him to wing, but who sits?

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01-17-2012, 10:52 PM
  #63
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Some people are complaining about missed chances, but the fact is Ward played pretty ****ing good tonight so take that into account. It's not like these guys with the chances are reputed snipers

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01-17-2012, 10:53 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
One or two don't bug me. Anyone on defense is going to make one or two. I was highly complimentary lately, but tonight wasn't up to snuff. A few of the pinches were pretty ugly, where the puck ended up on the stick of Ponikauseless. If he'd pushed the play, it would have meant a few 2 on 1's or 3 on 2's against.
Here's my beef with him.

If he were a 10-14 goal scoring derfenseman, I'd be willing to deal with the occasional odd man rushes resulting in him taking a chance, the way we can deal with Geno trying to pull a fast one and Orpik going out of his way to waste someone.

But you're not a goal scorer dude. In fact, you're the complete opposite. If you want to pinch to keep a cycle alive, then go for it, but don't start coming down low when you clearly can't finish, just for the sake of living up to your contract.

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01-17-2012, 10:53 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Yup. Very convenient that people are leaving that part out. For a good stretch there, I didn't notice a single thing he did out there and didn't do half of what he did tonight. He was awesome.

But again, we're complaining about our 4th liners when we have a ton of other concerns, like the fact that our lack touch around the net was what got the game to a shootout to begin with. Soooo many missed chances, I really thought it would burn us in the end.
He didn't play worse than all the guys ahead of him. That's my issue. Ashram, Park, Sully, Adams all played worse and don't offer as much. That's my issue.

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01-17-2012, 10:54 PM
  #66
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Much as I enjoy watching Skinner for what he does on this ice, it's stuff like this that makes me like him as a player even more:



Incredible to think he's only 19 . . .
Wow. That's definitely something I'll remember about Skinner.

For the record guys, Eric Tangradi played 1:04 on the power play tonight. We had only one power play chance. If we had more than one power play chance, he would have had more ice time.

Maybe we should just accept that, until proven otherwise, Eric Tangradi is good at two things on this team:

#1 He is a net front presence on the power play.
#2 He's our Mike Rupp replacement on the 4th line.

He's also a -4. At least he hasn't taken any bad penalties.

Maybe he does just need to earn more playing time.

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01-17-2012, 10:56 PM
  #67
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+ I don't know if it was the losing streak or what, but the Pens have that chip on their shoulder again and I love it. And no, I'm not just talking about the fights.
Don't know if it was fallout from Orpik calling out people or the Dejan article or what, but IMO the big difference the last three games, above everything else (the extra attention to detail and **** like that), is Geno and Flower. Geno is just playing that game that nobody else in the league can play again, and Flower, even if he's giving up goals, is making pretty much every timely save. You get those two things happening, you get those two pretty much putting the team on their backs like they have the last three, and anything is possible. The tough ones will be Thursday (at MSG) and Friday (home against a Habs team playing a lot better). That's when we'll see what exactly 'anything is possible means', because the Pens are going to need Geno and Flower to be their two best players again.

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01-17-2012, 11:00 PM
  #68
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He didn't play worse than all the guys ahead of him. That's my issue. Ashram, Park, Sully, Adams all played worse and don't offer as much. That's my issue.
I agree with this 100%, but maybe DB sat him for a couple games to raise his compete level. Coaches often challenge players that way. Maybe he saw more out of him and thought he could get it out by sitting him. If that is the case, it worked like a charm!

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01-17-2012, 11:00 PM
  #69
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He didn't play worse than all the guys ahead of him. That's my issue. Ashram, Park, Sully, Adams all played worse and don't offer as much. That's my issue.
Again though, if this was exclusive to the Pens, I'd be front and center about this.

But it's not. This is how it is unless you're the Isles or any other bottom feeder that has to play it's young guys "just to see".

My problem is more with Shero. He goes out and signs these "extras" we really don't need, and each of them are supposed to fulfill a certain role. As up and down as Sully is, there's no way you scratch him over a Vitale. Park yes, Adams yes, but Asham brings an element of toughness that this team needs, so even there, he fulfills a role that Vitale doesn't.

But then again, you gave Adams a raise for two years so he can stick around, and you're not going to sit him either.

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01-17-2012, 11:03 PM
  #70
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Here's my beef with him.

If he were a 10-14 goal scoring derfenseman, I'd be willing to deal with the occasional odd man rushes resulting in him taking a chance, the way we can deal with Geno trying to pull a fast one and Orpik going out of his way to waste someone.

But you're not a goal scorer dude. In fact, you're the complete opposite. If you want to pinch to keep a cycle alive, then go for it, but don't start coming down low when you clearly can't finish, just for the sake of living up to your contract.
1. I think it's safe to say that Paul Martin pretty much confirmed today that he's not a goal scorer (loved the Bibsy 'that pass was too hard' line).

2. I think you're basically saying that if Martin impacted a game offensively like Tanger, then you'd be more inclined to forgive the decision-making mistakes when he has the puck. Funny thing is Tanger, like Martin, isn't a goal scorer. What Martin's shot lacks in velocity, Tanger's lacks in accuracy. BUT, from his quick, accurate outlets to his skating with the puck to frankly his overall work when the Pens are on the attack, you can overlook Tanger making a mistake here and there because of the overall impact (like with Geno or Orpik). Martin . . . it's a lot harder

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01-17-2012, 11:06 PM
  #71
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It will be interesting to see how Bylsma uses Jeffrey when Staal comes back, and then what happens if Sid ever comes back? I'd say move him to wing, but who sits?
Jeffrey at wing? What line on a fully healthy roster (pre-trades)? First? Nope, Kunitz and Duper will be back with Sid. Second? You know **** well who will be on LW with Geno and Neal. And, you know what the third line will be. Fourth? Maybe, but Vitale is a better fit there. Not saying that's how it should be, but count me among the BUYERS of the Bylsma preference for useless veterans theory.

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01-17-2012, 11:10 PM
  #72
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Why is everybody so concerned about Tangradi? Who cares? This guy will be off our team soon and then he will be old news. We won the game, obviously it was the right decision. At this point, giving players a "fair chance" should be of 0 concern. We just broke a 6 game losing streak a few days back, right now, every single point counts if we want to get back into the top 4 in the EC we gotta be concerned about who is giving us the best chance to come away with the victory and if that means benching Tangradi so freaking be it.

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01-17-2012, 11:10 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Vitale slipped a bit for more than a few games. What he did tonight is what earned him his roster spot in the first place. Simple as that.
Yep, it seamed like he started to get a little too comfortable in hise role. The threat of the press box definitely woke him up tonight. He brought a lot of physicality tonight.


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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Much as I enjoy watching Skinner for what he does on this ice, it's stuff like this that makes me like him as a player even more:



Incredible to think he's only 19 . . .
Good on him. Hope he actually is ok, I think he took another good hit from Adams or Vitale when he came back.


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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Don't know if it was fallout from Orpik calling out people or the Dejan article or what, but IMO the big difference the last three games, above everything else (the extra attention to detail and **** like that), is Geno and Flower. Geno is just playing that game that nobody else in the league can play again, and Flower, even if he's giving up goals, is making pretty much every timely save. You get those two things happening, you get those two pretty much putting the team on their backs like they have the last three, and anything is possible. The tough ones will be Thursday (at MSG) and Friday (home against a Habs team playing a lot better). That's when we'll see what exactly 'anything is possible means', because the Pens are going to need Geno and Flower to be their two best players again.
They have been more physical as well, that incident seems to have lit a fire under a few *****.

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01-17-2012, 11:10 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. I think it's safe to say that Paul Martin pretty much confirmed today that he's not a goal scorer (loved the Bibsy 'that pass was too hard' line).

2. I think you're basically saying that if Martin impacted a game offensively like Tanger, then you'd be more inclined to forgive the decision-making mistakes when he has the puck. Funny thing is Tanger, like Martin, isn't a goal scorer. What Martin's shot lacks in velocity, Tanger's lacks in accuracy. BUT, from his quick, accurate outlets to his skating with the puck to frankly his overall work when the Pens are on the attack, you can overlook Tanger making a mistake here and there because of the overall impact (like with Geno or Orpik). Martin . . . it's a lot harder
Pretty much. If your chances worked - ever - then by all means take your shot. When you fail miserably and can't even get a shot through on net, then I'd rather you just maintain your post and try to pretend you're something you're not.

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01-17-2012, 11:16 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. I think it's safe to say that Paul Martin pretty much confirmed today that he's not a goal scorer (loved the Bibsy 'that pass was too hard' line).

2. I think you're basically saying that if Martin impacted a game offensively like Tanger, then you'd be more inclined to forgive the decision-making mistakes when he has the puck. Funny thing is Tanger, like Martin, isn't a goal scorer. What Martin's shot lacks in velocity, Tanger's lacks in accuracy. BUT, from his quick, accurate outlets to his skating with the puck to frankly his overall work when the Pens are on the attack, you can overlook Tanger making a mistake here and there because of the overall impact (like with Geno or Orpik). Martin . . . it's a lot harder
Plus Tanger can cover for his own mistakes better.

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Originally Posted by TheDudeAbides View Post
Why is everybody so concerned about Tangradi? Who cares? This guy will be off our team soon and then he will be old news. We won the game, obviously it was the right decision. At this point, giving players a "fair chance" should be of 0 concern. We just broke a 6 game losing streak a few days back, right now, every single point counts if we want to get back into the top 4 in the EC we gotta be concerned about who is giving us the best chance to come away with the victory and if that means benching Tangradi so freaking be it.
He's our only forward prospect anywhere close to becoming any sort of a threat. So it's concerning when he makes no impact. If he's not ready he's not ready. I don't buy into the he makes an impact now, or trade him theory. Power forwards take longer to develop, I'm willing to give him more time, but if you're only going to give him 7 min a night, just send him back down and let him play.

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