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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Spreadsheet of cities' ability to support professional sports

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01-16-2012, 11:51 AM
  #126
normalpsychology
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who cares if there are people with the money to build nhl arenas in canada it's irrelevant when they clearly lack the markets to support them, and furthermore there are i could easily name about 20 markets outside of canada that have a higher need and demand for an nhl team.

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01-16-2012, 11:52 AM
  #127
barneyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
No businessmen are interested in Canadian hockey?

Is that why Quebecor is trying to buy a team for Quebec?

Or RIM was trying up until last year to put a team in Hamilton?

Or Rudy Braddy building a half-billion dollar hockey rink in Markham?
Give MeleeRay a break, according to him:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleeRay View Post
does common sense count as facts? because it as well should. quebec city? i've never even heard of it so i highly doubt they have the infrastructure or resources to support an NHL team. looking at a map it looks to be far too north to have a population able to support a team. furthermore, it's pretty close to montreal so they should just root for the canadiens. I would however be in support of giving portland maine a team. they like hockey up there and i think a team would do well there.
I mean, nevermind the fact that Portland is closer to Boston than Quebec City is to Montreal.. or Greensboro to Raleigh.. wtf did I just read, Wilmington??

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01-16-2012, 11:56 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleeRay View Post
who cares if there are people with the money to build nhl arenas in canada it's irrelevant when they clearly lack the markets to support them, and furthermore there are i could easily name about 20 markets outside of canada that have a higher need and demand for an nhl team.
Do you not get that you are 100% wrong on this? No you don't. I'm just going to suggest that you stop embarrassing yourself right now and quit while you are behind.

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01-16-2012, 12:14 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleeRay View Post
who cares if there are people with the money to build nhl arenas in canada it's irrelevant when they clearly lack the markets to support them, and furthermore there are i could easily name about 20 markets outside of canada that have a higher need and demand for an nhl team.
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Do you not get that you are 100% wrong on this? No you don't. I'm just going to suggest that you stop embarrassing yourself right now and quit while you are behind.
I would say that you bolded the wrong part of his post, but then that goes to show where your own bias lies.

I do somewhat agree with him in that there are very few remaining markets in Canada that can support an NHL franchise over the longterm. All that's needed is another economic turn around in which the Canadian $ takes a major hit and then some of the existing Canadian franchises will be back to struggling mode. What he's absolutely wrong about is the idea that there are "about 20 markets outside of Canada that have a higher need and demand for an NHL team." That's purely ridiculous!

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01-16-2012, 12:43 PM
  #130
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QC gets a team and THAT'S it. 8 teams is enough for Canada.

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01-16-2012, 02:00 PM
  #131
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IMO, Canada can support at two more teams for now; one in QC and one somewhere around the GTA. Years down the road when the population merits it, we can talk about adding more teams to the league. But for now, two more Canadian teams would be the max.

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01-16-2012, 02:32 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
IMO, Canada can support at two more teams for now; one in QC and one somewhere around the GTA. Years down the road when the population merits it, we can talk about adding more teams to the league. But for now, two more Canadian teams would be the max.
They might well be able to support teams there but why would the NHL approve it? Their mission is still to generate net new viewers to negotiate a better TV deal. Adding QC and GTA teams would not meet that requirement. Could work as a relo if there isn't another suitable market but there won't be two relos in those two areas.

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01-16-2012, 03:20 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
They might well be able to support teams there but why would the NHL approve it? Their mission is still to generate net new viewers to negotiate a better TV deal. Adding QC and GTA teams would not meet that requirement. Could work as a relo if there isn't another suitable market but there won't be two relos in those two areas.
It will add stability to the league, because they will be stable markets. Once you occupy all possible stable markets, then go out and "grow the game". You need to be smart and realistic if you want to expand your enterprise. And throwing franchises into big cities simply because they have large populations for "potential fanbases" doesn't always work, as we have all seen.

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01-16-2012, 04:03 PM
  #134
LadyStanley
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Mod note: If there's a poster whose posts you do not want to read, please put them on ignore (rather than whine in response).

And please watch the racist comments.

If you feel a post goes over the line, please report it (rather than respond).

And there are more resources than Wikipedia, including a number of great threads on the BOH on US (and Canadian) census figures.

There are also other threads on many other potential NHL cities.

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01-16-2012, 04:22 PM
  #135
StormCast
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
It will add stability to the league, because they will be stable markets. Once you occupy all possible stable markets, then go out and "grow the game". You need to be smart and realistic if you want to expand your enterprise. And throwing franchises into big cities simply because they have large populations for "potential fanbases" doesn't always work, as we have all seen.
But that's not the NHL blueprint. Plus keep in mind that today's stable market isn't necessarily tomorrow's. Bettman is a David Stern disciple and is using his vision for expansion even if it's flawed.

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01-16-2012, 05:04 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
But that's not the NHL blueprint. Plus keep in mind that today's stable market isn't necessarily tomorrow's. Bettman is a David Stern disciple and is using his vision for expansion even if it's flawed.
Sometimes your "blueprint" or plan doesn't come to life the way you want it to, and you need to revise your scope of work in order to further along your plan. Such is life and smart business people realize this.

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01-16-2012, 06:48 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Sometimes your "blueprint" or plan doesn't come to life the way you want it to, and you need to revise your scope of work in order to further along your plan. Such is life and smart business people realize this.
Well, obviously. But you're talking in theoretical terms. The NHL should not be confused with smart business and acumen.

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01-17-2012, 01:25 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
They might well be able to support teams there but why would the NHL approve it? Their mission is still to generate net new viewers to negotiate a better TV deal. Adding QC and GTA teams would not meet that requirement. Could work as a relo if there isn't another suitable market but there won't be two relos in those two areas.
I agree that the NHL's ultimate goal is to get more viewers and better tv deals. However this is a long term goal and this can't happen all of a sudden in a magical miracle (liked when they tried 17 years ago). At the moment half of the franchises are losing money, they're in a crisis. They probably understand now that they have a short term goal, it is to stop that crisis. Stability is the key for that, and that's why they're looking at canadians markets, there won't be any crisis there, teams are making profits and that's good for the league. It's a safe bet and the league can heal from it, restore their image.

This is only my opinion but I'm pretty sure that a few potential americans cities are looking at the NHL but don't dare taking financial risk. It's a gamble for them when they see so many americans teams losing money. Everything could change in a few years with a richer stable league and then you'll see some cities bidding for franchises in the USA and the NHL will be happy.

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01-18-2012, 12:31 AM
  #139
TTOMO
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not sure what point you're atttempting to make here. are you arguing in support of what i'm saying? because yes, charlotte did just gladly build an AHL arena and would gladly also build an NHL arena downtown. Your statement gives a prime example of the city's willingness to bring hockey to the town. As would most carolina cities




does common sense count as facts? because it as well should. quebec city? i've never even heard of it so i highly doubt they have the infrastructure or resources to support an NHL team. looking at a map it looks to be far too north to have a population able to support a team. furthermore, it's pretty close to montreal so they should just root for the canadiens. I would however be in support of giving portland maine a team. they like hockey up there and i think a team would do well there.



manchester new hampshire is also called a queen city. i fail to see your point here because if you will read what i said you will see that i said "there is no place left in canada to support a hockey team." that implies CURRENTLY. You are acting as though wineppeg does not currently have a team, and yet at the same time using the example of a team thriving there as evidence against what i say. what i said is not in conflict with a team thriving in wineppeg at all. so let me put it a little simpler for you: there is no place currently left in canada to support an nhl team.

next. houston and seattle should have teams as well, but carolina based on the markets that exist here would be a better option. hockey is a business and business owners wisely put teams where they will do the best. the carolinas are basically "hockey states" as they sometimes say about cities, like "oh blah blah it's a hockey city." so it's more likely to put another team in the carolinas than in those unproven markets.

another thing you may not realize about charlotte is the 2.3 population is merely the city populations. in the carolinas it is not as common for the populations to be concentrated within city limits. there is a LOT of urban sprawl here. you can look that up on wikipedia if you need to research what that is because i know things are smaller and less dense in canada.

second of all your perception of mexico and your statement that Carlos Slim is the only person who could finance a team in mexico is very... bizarre. You have a very close minded and naive view of mexico if you truly believe the statements you just said and are not trolling. I really do not feel like spending the time educating you about something you will probably continue to stubbornly believe even in the light of evidence, so if you wish I encourage you to do some real unbiased research on mexico and you will find that everything you just said is basically ridiculous to the point of being offensive. Do you watch a lot of fox news or whatever the canadian equivalent is?
You funny. You's a funny, funny guy. 60 NHL teams, 4 in Mexico, 2 in North Carolina, 1 in Portland Maine (Population 60,000+, how do you work that one out as an NHL market? That's even crazier than some Canadians wanting a team in Saskatchewan.), but no more in Canada, not in Quebec City, not even a second team in Hamilton or around or in Toronto. That's some funny ass ****.

Hey, if hockey grows over time in Mexico, I'll be glad for that country. I'm glad hockey has grown over the years in North Carolina. But there won't ever be any NHL teams in Mexico and there won't ever be another one in North Carolina.


Last edited by TTOMO: 01-19-2012 at 04:23 AM.
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