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Bobby Holik on Subban

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Old
01-17-2012, 06:35 PM
  #51
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
not quite... but on the other hand, with some of the bush league crap that's been said about him in the media by some other players, it wouldn't be so outlandish for someone in the organization to speak up loudly on his behalf.

Look at how quickly AV went to town on Bolland for his "joke" about the Sedins on the radio a few months back.

that kind of (emotional) response by your coach makes it pretty clear he's got your back/believes in you.

I know that Gainey, and now Gauthier, preferred the whole "we're too classy to comment/respond" approach in general, but I think that is a "missing the point" approach.

Perhaps Gainey's most remembered public comment was the way he went to town on the fans in defense of Brisebois... I can guarantee you that it had a deep impact not just on Breezer, but on every guy in that locker room.

Gauthier hasn't once stepped in front of the mike and spoken out loudly/defiantly in support of his players, and that does not go unnoticed (nor does his "tail btw the legs" reaction to the RC language storm).

it's why a guy like Burke, for all the warts, has such a positive reputation with the players he's managed (even when they get moved/demoted etc). Players do understand that it is a business, but it isn't "business" concerns that pushes a guy to dive in front of a puck, or stand up to some bigger tougher guy in defense of his teammate, or fight back from an injury/play through an injury for the "team"... that's ALL emotions.

when you have leadership that treats it like a business, like simple financial transactions when moving players/firing coaches (as PG has in dealing with Pearns, JM, Spacek, Cammalleri), I think you lose an element of that emotional commitment that strong/successful organizations cultivate.
This is a great post.

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01-17-2012, 06:51 PM
  #52
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People keep saying this. Is it bad to be leading your team in points and ice time?

Lets say PK did not have the season he did last year. If I told you a 22 year old dman was leading the d core in ice time and points..pretty sure you'd be happy with that.

Is PK playing as well as last year? Offensively? No. Deffensively? Yes. I don't understand the "PK is playing bad" talk. Everything he does is magnified for some reason. You'd think he's the only dman who gives the puck away.

Holik was right on the money and he iterated what I've been saying. The NHL and its fans are very old school in their thinking. You have to act a certain way. Eff that! PK needs to play his game and ignore the haters.
In comparison to the team he's one of the few glimmers of hope practically It makes me laugh when people say he's having a bad season. He isn't have a good season, a good season would be playing like this but having much more points. It most certainly isn't a bad season though. For what it's worth he turned it up 2nd half last year. Give him a season and see what he can accomplish. PK is a star but remember he's only 22 years old!

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01-17-2012, 06:58 PM
  #53
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Ofcourse you had to find a way to bring in "negativity". At least you are creative.

Considering the fact that they give him every opportunity to shine and allow him to play his game and showcase his personality, I don't think he would whine about anything like some of us love to do.
simple question... did you hear (and in this case, i mean literally "hear") his comments after his most recent benching? more importantly, did you see/hear his tone & body language?

you don't have to be particularly astute to tell that he was ******* pissed, and not in a positive way... the guy reacted like someone who had been left out to dry/betrayed...

that's not a good sentiment to be cultivating with a young star player, and EXACTLY the opposite of what Holik described with his relationship to his coaches when he was a young, brash, future "star" player.

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01-17-2012, 08:51 PM
  #54
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I am, a HUGE Subban fan, but if he can't take a benching at 22 years old, he is not the player I think he is.

EVERYBODY needs a kick in the pants sometimes.

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01-17-2012, 08:52 PM
  #55
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I am, a HUGE Subban fan, but if he can't take a benching at 22 years old, he is not the player I think he is.

EVERYBODY needs a kick in the pants sometimes.
What makes you think he can't take a benching?

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01-17-2012, 08:59 PM
  #56
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What I really find funny is when people/media say PK isn't having a good year.
He's not having an amazing year, but he's not having a bad one either. It seems like it has to be all or nothing with this kid, which is stupid.
He's having a good year imo. Yes, he's made mistakes, but he's still playing well. I don't think people realize just how good he is defensively. He's made mistakes, like the rest of our team, but he's solid defensively.

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01-17-2012, 09:06 PM
  #57
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What I really find funny is when people/media say PK isn't having a good year.
He's not having an amazing year, but he's not having a bad one either. It seems like it has to be all or nothing with this kid, which is stupid.
He's having a good year imo. Yes, he's made mistakes, but he's still playing well. I don't think people realize just how good he is defensively. He's made mistakes, like the rest of our team, but he's solid defensively.
He is compared to expectations that he would get 50 points and be an all-star and top 20 NHL d-man.

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01-17-2012, 09:13 PM
  #58
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Well, it wasn't the most earth shattering read, although I agree with him, although there are plenty more reasons to appreciate PK. I guess he's addressing only the most obvious - i.e. as BG would say "Shut up and play against him."

PK is doing just fine and if fans have a problem with his game (and it's sad that at this point I actually mean Habs fans, who woulda thunk!), well, you'll just have to wait it out until your desire to blame someone subsides.

Not the focus of the article, but "Halak shutting them out upon his return"

clearly he didn't watch the entire game. or even most of it. The blues shut us out, it's annoying that the league-wide headline seems to be what it is.

anyway go P.K.!

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01-17-2012, 09:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
What I really find funny is when people/media say PK isn't having a good year.
He's not having an amazing year, but he's not having a bad one either. It seems like it has to be all or nothing with this kid, which is stupid.
He's having a good year imo. Yes, he's made mistakes, but he's still playing well. I don't think people realize just how good he is defensively. He's made mistakes, like the rest of our team, but he's solid defensively.
We as Hab fans build our players up, then we crush them when they don't reach the unreasonable expectations we have for them.

I hate it because we do it so often with young players.

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01-17-2012, 09:17 PM
  #60
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I actually do disrespect Subban, mainly due to his turtling which forces teamates to put out his fires, but I don't wish for him to be traded. The talent is obvious, the potential is very high and maturity should naturally follow. That said, he is by no means an untouchable. Untouchables do not exist. Every player has a price, even...Price!
this nonsense about his turtle-ing has to stop. First of all, he doesn't turtle. Second of all, he fought Marchand, didn't he (among others)? Third, if you deliver good hits and get chased around cuz you're enemy number one just for being good and there's noone to defend you, it is not expected that you keep fighting. I would really rather he doesn't fight. He will only get hurt and he shouldn't have to. Why doesn't Emelin fight? Does he turtle? He hides within the pack after a whistle. In both cases, that's just fine. If he delivered a cheap shot and then he didn't back it up, different story. Milbury is getting his memes out there...

wait until Tinordi is standing next to Subban...then we'll see how many people want to take him on

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01-18-2012, 07:17 AM
  #61
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trading him would be a huge mistake, no matter the return. He's going to be a star in the league that's for sure. We've traded far too many young players who struggled. It's crucial we don't make the same mistake with Subban.

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01-18-2012, 09:30 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
simple question... did you hear (and in this case, i mean literally "hear") his comments after his most recent benching? more importantly, did you see/hear his tone & body language?

you don't have to be particularly astute to tell that he was ******* pissed, and not in a positive way... the guy reacted like someone who had been left out to dry/betrayed...

that's not a good sentiment to be cultivating with a young star player, and EXACTLY the opposite of what Holik described with his relationship to his coaches when he was a young, brash, future "star" player.
It's hilarious that you actually believe what you writing. That is not at all what Holik was communicating in his blog. It's not like Holik wasn't benched by Lemaire. Dude, Lemaire is much like Martin in how he handles younger players, in fact he is much harsher than Martin when it comes to his handling of younger players.

It's amazing that you choose to whine about our talented 22 year old sophomore being benched for 1 game(1 game!!) when this happens so so often in the league. In fact, Tyler Myers was benched by one of the best coaches and organisations in the league at developing young players in November of last year( a game against us, a divisional rival).

Unless you consider yourself more knowledgeable than practically every coach or organization in this league get your head out of your you nowhere and stop whining about nonsense.

As for Subban, well I want him to be angry when he is benched. I want him to want to play. I want him to want to prove that he does not deserve to be benched. However, I think Subban is more respectful of the coach and knowledgeable about the game than you are to cry about what happens so many other talented young players in the league. Dude, you actually use the word "betrayed". Come on.

Subban has been struggling on the goal scoring front this year but I do think he has been good overall this year. However he did need a bit of a kick in the butt to play even better as he was starting to play worse before the benching. Since then, he has gotten better.

Subban is allowed(as he should be) to showcase his personality during the game and after the game(his post-win celebration with Price), he is allowed make calculated risks trying to start something on offense, he plays 25 minutes a night, he is being giving all the chances in the world on our power-play despite being awful on it this year, he was trusted with big minutes at the biggest stage in the world when he was fresh off from the AHL in 2010 to the NHL Playoffs and you whine about "betrayal" because he was scratched one game?


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Old
01-18-2012, 02:56 PM
  #63
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It's hilarious that you actually believe what you writing. That is not at all what Holik was communicating in his blog. It's not like Holik wasn't benched by Lemaire. Dude, Lemaire is much like Martin in how he handles younger players, in fact he is much harsher than Martin when it comes to his handling of younger players.

It's amazing that you choose to whine about our talented 22 year old sophomore being benched for 1 game(1 game!!) when this happens so so often in the league. In fact, Tyler Myers was benched by one of the best coaches and organisations in the league at developing young players in November of last year( a game against us, a divisional rival).

Unless you consider yourself more knowledgeable than practically every coach or organization in this league get your head out of your you nowhere and stop whining about nonsense.

As for Subban, well I want him to be angry when he is benched. I want him to want to play. I want him to want to prove that he does not deserve to be benched. However, I think Subban is more respectful of the coach and knowledgeable about the game than you are to cry about what happens so many other talented young players in the league. Dude, you actually use the word "betrayed". Come on.

Subban has been struggling on the goal scoring front this year but I do think he has been good overall this year. However he did need a bit of a kick in the butt to play even better as he was starting to play worse before the benching. Since then, he has gotten better.

Subban is allowed(as he should be) to showcase his personality during the game and after the game(his post-win celebration with Price), he is allowed make calculated risks trying to start something on offense, he plays 25 minutes a night, he is being giving all the chances in the world on our power-play despite being awful on it this year, he was trusted with big minutes at the biggest stage in the world when he was fresh off from the AHL in 2010 to the NHL Playoffs and you whine about "betrayal" because he was scratched one game?
i guess reading isn't your strong suit?


benching is part of the game, any game, players know and understand that... no big deal.

benching a player unjustifiably to send a message, one that you don't send to other, inferior, players who are playing with less intensity & effectiveness is another.

it has nothing to do with what tactics used by the coaches, and everything to do with HOW they use them.

but i don't expect you'd understand.

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01-18-2012, 03:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
simple question... did you hear (and in this case, i mean literally "hear") his comments after his most recent benching? more importantly, did you see/hear his tone & body language?

you don't have to be particularly astute to tell that he was ******* pissed, and not in a positive way... the guy reacted like someone who had been left out to dry/betrayed...

that's not a good sentiment to be cultivating with a young star player, and EXACTLY the opposite of what Holik described with his relationship to his coaches when he was a young, brash, future "star" player.
Well to be fair to RC here, he was interviewed and talked about the benching. He mentioned that PK had consistently been taking "unecessary chances." And from the perspective I think that he's right.

Giving RC the benefit of the doubt, he may have sat down with PK and talked about this. Then PK goes out and does his usual thing and then got benched.

Right way to handle it? I don't know. But there may be more going on here than what's on the surface. If PK isn't going to listen to his coach, what else is the guy going to do?

Everybody loves PK and everyone agrees that he's a huge part of our future. But he still has some maturing to do on the ice. Yes, he's being asked to do too much and yes he's done reasonably well under the circumstances but he's still a kid. And kids are far more likely to get benched when they aren't listening to what's being said to them.

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01-18-2012, 03:17 PM
  #65
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Well to be fair to RC here, he was interviewed and talked about the benching. He mentioned that PK had consistently been taking "unecessary chances." And from the perspective I think that he's right.

Giving RC the benefit of the doubt, he may have sat down with PK and talked about this. Then PK goes out and does his usual thing and then got benched.

Right way to handle it? I don't know. But there may be more going on here than what's on the surface. If PK isn't going to listen to his coach, what else is the guy going to do?

Everybody loves PK and everyone agrees that he's a huge part of our future. But he still has some maturing to do on the ice. Yes, he's being asked to do too much and yes he's done reasonably well under the circumstances but he's still a kid. And kids are far more likely to get benched when they aren't listening to what's being said to them.
and again, no issue with using benchings as a teaching tool...

but don't agree at all that it makes sense for a coach of a professional team to use benchings as a teaching tool for only 1 segment of his roster... contributes to the kind of tension and internal conflict that engels was touching on in his article posted in another thread.

when you create double standards, it doesn't end well... unless of course you're winning in which case it hides the problems until they eventually rise to the surface.

and to be clear, i think RC's short tenure as HC is too short to really pass any strong judgment on how effective he's been at fixing the problems that were there and getting the best out of this group. obviously, the numbers aren't pretty, but that's also a reflection of the broader problems of the organization/roster as a whole & i don't think you can fairly pin it on him.

my point is more that overall, watching the evolution of PK with the habs, I'm not impressed with how the organization (PG/JM most specifically) have handled both him overall (on-ice as much as off-ice), and it strikes me as the opposite of what you'd see from an organization that, like Holik suggested, understood both the value and the somewhat "special" situation of the player.

Subban will be a great player in the league, but if he doesn't feel supported and embraced, as he is (and from all impressions, he is a kid fully committed to learning and getting better), his greatness risks being enjoyed by another organization

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01-18-2012, 03:18 PM
  #66
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Yeah but M Bergeron says we must trade him, and we know how ex Nords fans and Bandwagon Habs fans love their Bergeron !

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01-19-2012, 01:41 AM
  #67
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What I don't understand is...

...why does it take a nice article from Holik to make some (not all) Hab fans realize how important PK is to our Habs (and PK was always a huge Hab fan growing up in Toronto...huge bonus!!).

Sophomore jinx or whatever...he still gets 25min/game.
That makes him our #1dman.

Forgive me, but I'm looking forward to the near future...

PK Subban
Gorges
Top 3-4 UFA dman
Top 3-4 UFA dman
Beaulieu
Tinordi
Emelin



**** Markov...force him to retire or let him do his rehab without the salary. $5.75mil/year to do rehab...what a ****ing joke for our Habs. Give that $5.75mil/year to a UFA dman (not an injury prone one).

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01-19-2012, 08:52 AM
  #68
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Not worried about Subban. Just like I'm sure the Sabres aren't worried about Myers and the Kings aren't worried about Doughty.

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01-20-2012, 04:28 AM
  #69
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Not worried about Subban. Just like I'm sure the Sabres aren't worried about Myers and the Kings aren't worried about Doughty.
Exactly Subban is 22 and has two rookies on the defence corps in his sophomore season.He's having a great season if you ask me.

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