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01-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #1
Kel Varnsen
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Glen Sather Appreciation Thread

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

Quote:
During the lockout, however, Schoenfeld said Sather wanted to go a different route than they had in the past and put more emphasis on young talent and the farm team, just as he’d done in the 1980s in Edmonton to great success.
Quote:
“Glen finally convinced everyone that that’s the way to go,” Schoenfeld said. “He kind of wanted to start from scratch when he first came to New York.”
This second one is interesting. Schonefeld seems to be saying that Sather never really wanted to go big on F/As, that he always wanted to build from within.

That would be new to me at least. Either way he deserves significant props. And to think so many wanted him (and torts to a lesser extent) fired...

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01-18-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
This second one is interesting. Schonefeld seems to be saying that Sather never really wanted to go big on F/As, that he always wanted to build from within.

That would be new to me at least. Either way he deserves significant props. And to think so many wanted him (and torts to a lesser extent) fired...
Every time i want to give him credit for finally doing the right thing, I remember what he did to Brian Leetch. Trading him was a disgrace.

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01-18-2012, 11:12 AM
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This thread is going to get ugly.

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01-18-2012, 11:14 AM
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Another one?

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01-18-2012, 11:14 AM
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This narrative that this was a master plan starting in 2004 is ********, and something being used to hoodwink less-informed fans.

I'd like for Sather to come out and try to explain the Drury, Gomez, and Redden signings if that were the case.

Revisionist history.

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01-18-2012, 11:19 AM
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Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This narrative that this was a master plan starting in 2004 is ********, and something being used to hoodwink less-informed fans.

I'd like for Sather to come out and try to explain the Drury, Gomez, and Redden signings if that were the case.

Revisionist history.
Because less informed fans are the ones watching the owner come out impromptu to the coaches post game presser? I don't see what motivation Dolan would have to come out and fabricate an entire story about him and his GM back a bunch of years ago.

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01-18-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Because less informed fans are the ones watching the owner come out impromptu to the coaches post game presser? I don't see what motivation Dolan would have to come out and fabricate an entire story about him and his GM back a bunch of years ago.
Agree, that it's not to hoodwink less informed fans. But I do believe that it's a bunch of crap that this was the "master" plan. I think Dolan was just talking out of his a** for the most part.

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01-18-2012, 11:30 AM
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The article doesn't say Sather always wanted to build from within, very misleading. It states that he finally changed his philosophy during the lockout.

Quote:
During the lockout, however, Schoenfeld said Sather wanted to go a different route than they had in the past and put more emphasis on young talent and the farm team, just as he’d done in the 1980s in Edmonton to great success.
When Sather first came here, he had every intention of building this team from free agency and not through the draft. He said "if I had the Rangers budget, I'd never lose a game" when he was still with Edmonton. His first four seasons with the Rangers were marred by poor drafting and bad free agent signings.

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01-18-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This narrative that this was a master plan starting in 2004 is ********, and something being used to hoodwink less-informed fans.

I'd like for Sather to come out and try to explain the Drury, Gomez, and Redden signings if that were the case.

Revisionist history.
Bingo. I won't give Sather any credit until we win a Cup. It seems more to me that he tried to buy a team first, and only moved toward drafting/developing players when his All-Star rosters failed him. He shouldn't get credit for throwing everything at the wall and having something stick. The only credit I'll give him are for the trades (with the exception of the Leetch one, although that did result in Michael Suaer) and for the hiring of Gordie Clarke and Jeff Gorton. But he's been very unwise with the checkbook, and each new free agency I feel like I'm putting my head under the guillotine and waiting for the blade to drop. I mean, after Chara left Redden's numbers took a serious dip. And then he got hurt for half a season. What about that says offer him near $7 mil a year in a salary cap league?

I get the Gomez and Drury thing. We needed centers, and nobody could have foretold that they would have been that bad. And I give him credit for landing us McDonagh (and indirectly Prust) from the Gomez deal. But again, until this team wins a Cup, he is not forgiven. He's still got way too many failures to his name in New York. If it weren't for Jagr and Lundqvist, his track record would be even worse. Any other GM would have been fired 10 times over.

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01-18-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nyr199435 View Post
Bingo. I won't give Sather any credit until we win a Cup. It seems more to me that he tried to buy a team first, and only moved toward drafting/developing players when his All-Star rosters failed him. He shouldn't get credit for throwing everything at the wall and having something stick. The only credit I'll give him are for the trades (with the exception of the Leetch one, although that did result in Michael Suaer) and for the hiring of Gordie Clarke and Jeff Gorton. But he's been very unwise with the checkbook, and each new free agency I feel like I'm putting my head under the guillotine and waiting for the blade to drop. I mean, after Chara left Redden's numbers took a serious dip. And then he got hurt for half a season. What about that says offer him near $7 mil a year in a salary cap league?

I get the Gomez and Drury thing. We needed centers, and nobody could have foretold that they would have been that bad. And I give him credit for landing us McDonagh (and indirectly Prust) from the Gomez deal. But again, until this team wins a Cup, he is not forgiven. He's still got way too many failures to his name in New York. If it weren't for Jagr and Lundqvist, his track record would be even worse. Any other GM would have been fired 10 times over.
Couldn't have put it ANY better myself. And like I have said a million times, Don Maloney was doing a lot of the drafting until he left and is in my opinion is responsible for more of the talent drafted than Sather.

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01-18-2012, 12:02 PM
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I really didn't want to get into this again, but I can't resist.

1) I'm not sure who told him that he couldn't "start from scratch" when he came here.

2) Whether or not you "start from scratch" it doesn't explain the appalling drafting that came from most of his drafts pre-great purge. Lee Falardeau as a 2nd rounder? Hugh Jessiman at 12, Kenny Roche in the third? Darin Olver, Dane Byers, Bruce Graham in the second (all drafted ahead of Dubinsky), Marc-Adre Cliche in the second round, Dylan Flatt and Brodie Dupont in the third round. Ryan Hillier in the third round, Anton Lafleur in the second round? What's astounding is the number of players the Rangers drafted during that period of time that not only didn't play for the Rangers, they never played in the NHL.

3) It doesn't explain just throwing in draft picks when you're bidding against yourself (as in the Lindros and Bure trades)

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01-18-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I really didn't want to get into this again, but I can't resist.

1) I'm not sure who told him that he couldn't "start from scratch" when he came here.

2) Whether or not you "start from scratch" it doesn't explain the appalling drafting that came from most of his drafts pre-great purge. Lee Falardeau as a 2nd rounder? Hugh Jessiman at 12, Kenny Roche in the third? Darin Olver, Dane Byers, Bruce Graham in the second (all drafted ahead of Dubinsky), Marc-Adre Cliche in the second round, Dylan Flatt and Brodie Dupont in the third round. Ryan Hillier in the third round, Anton Lafleur in the second round?

3) It doesn't explain just throwing in draft picks when you're bidding against yourself (as in the Lindros and Bure trades)
But, but, but..after almost 12 years..we FINALLY have a great team!! That's gotta count for something..right? RIGHT??

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01-18-2012, 12:19 PM
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This thread is ill-timed. They're playing well so nobody wants to come in and throw cold water, but he still hasn't won anything (championships are not handed out in January), so it's also too early to annoint Sather right now. Even Tortorella doesn't want to talk championship yet.

I stick by what I've been saying...win two series this year, and I will give Sather credit. But not until then.

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01-18-2012, 12:23 PM
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So, we are to believe that Sather wanted to go young and build through the draft all along, but someone above him (only Dolan is above him) disagreed. Yet we've been told time and again that the job is Sather's for as long as he wants it and Dolan lets him do whatever he wants. Which is it? I'm guessing the latter.

Sather never had a plan. You don't run the team the way he did pre-lockout if you have a plan. And you don't sign Drury, Gomez and Redden if you have a plan. Hell, you probably don't sign Gaborik and Richards if you have a plan because you can't depend on free agency to build a team.

We are where we are because of people like Clark and Gorton. If you want to give Sather credit for hiring them, sure, go ahead. But I'd be thrilled if Sather announced his retirement at the end of the year and Clark and Gorton took over totally, if they haven't already.

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01-18-2012, 12:25 PM
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He's not a bad GM anymore. In fact, he might be a really good one.

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01-18-2012, 12:28 PM
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Hindsight is 20-20. Most Rangers fans were demanding a free agency splash when we signed Gomez and Drury. It's not like his philosophy has completely changed. We did just spend a whole bunch of money on Richards.

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01-18-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So, we are to believe that Sather wanted to go young and build through the draft all along, but someone above him (only Dolan is above him) disagreed. Yet we've been told time and again that the job is Sather's for as long as he wants it and Dolan lets him do whatever he wants. Which is it? I'm guessing the latter.
Yeah, never understood that spin. Especially when Sather left Edmonton because of meddling ownership. Can't believe he would come here and start taking direction from a guy who doesn't know icing from frosting.

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01-18-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Hindsight is 20-20. Most Rangers fans were demanding a free agency splash when we signed Gomez and Drury. It's not like his philosophy has completely changed. We did just spend a whole bunch of money on Richards.
I would hope that the General Manager of the New York Rangers would have a better clue than most Ranger fans (assuming what you said is true).

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01-18-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Hindsight is 20-20. Most Rangers fans were demanding a free agency splash when we signed Gomez and Drury. It's not like his philosophy has completely changed. We did just spend a whole bunch of money on Richards.
Really? You took a census on that or just talking out of your ass and painting with broad strokes? I'm sure after x-amount of years of doing literally squat the majority of fans wanted MORE free agents.

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01-18-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I would hope that the General Manager of the New York Rangers would have a better clue than most Ranger fans (assuming what you said is true).
My point: Most fans that ***** about the Gomez and Drury contracts were demanding them to be signed. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The only philosophy that's changed around here is drafting. Our two best offensive players are still free agent acquisitions.

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01-18-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
My point: Most fans that ***** about the Gomez and Drury contracts were demanding them to be signed. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The only philosophy that's changed around here is drafting. Our two best offensive players are still free agent acquisitions.
I don't recall people clambering for Gomez and Drury. Regardless, it's the front offices job to evaluate talent — not bow to will of the fans.

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01-18-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The article doesn't say Sather always wanted to build from within, very misleading. It states that he finally changed his philosophy during the lockout.



When Sather first came here, he had every intention of building this team from free agency and not through the draft. He said "if I had the Rangers budget, I'd never lose a game" when he was still with Edmonton. His first four seasons with the Rangers were marred by poor drafting and bad free agent signings.
I quoted that part in the OP. The part that indicates otherwise is the specific Schonfeld quote, “Glen finally convinced everyone that that’s the way to go. He kind of wanted to start from scratch when he first came to New York.

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01-18-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yeah, never understood that spin. Especially when Sather left Edmonton because of meddling ownership. Can't believe he would come here and start taking direction from a guy who doesn't know icing from frosting.
That's just fodder for the perpetual knob slobbers who would start an appreciation thread after a Sather bowel movement if it proved the dissenters wrong. I'm about as thrilled over the team as I've been since '94...but I still can't wait for the day that Sather steps down.

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01-18-2012, 12:44 PM
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Really? You took a census on that or just talking out of your ass and painting with broad strokes? I'm sure after x-amount of years of doing literally squat the majority of fans wanted MORE free agents.
Again, hindsight is 20-20. Gomez and Drury weren't considered bad players when they were signed. We desperately needed centers and we were one of the better teams in the league the year we lost to Pitt. Let it go, the team we have now is amazing.

The team has been getting younger since the lockout but we still use free agency.

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01-18-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Hindsight is 20-20. Most Rangers fans were demanding a free agency splash when we signed Gomez and Drury. It's not like his philosophy has completely changed. We did just spend a whole bunch of money on Richards.
God I hate this excuse. Of course hindsight is 20/20. How the hell else are we supposed to judge their performance? Does that mean that GMs and coaches get a free pass for failure? No. They get paid to have foresight. They get paid to be right more than they are wrong.

The only thing that matters is winning. If the GM and/or coach don't win enough, they get replaced. It's as simple as that.

By any other standard, Sather would have been fired long ago.

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