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Old
01-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
No doubt he is driving to the net more with the puck which I never saw under Murray. Still, the point production isn't there consistently and you can't have most of your wingers struggling to put up points.
Agreed. If I had to make a decision now, I'd say let him go simply for his entire body of work with the Kings - it's been awful. BUT... he's been markedly better under Sutter than Murray (and was playing better this season under Murray as well), hence my "wait and see" answer.

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01-18-2012, 11:49 AM
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I know! I love Kurri, pretty much everything he's ever posted cracks me up.

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01-18-2012, 12:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Agreed. He isn't producing on the ice and he's a distraction off of it. The Kings are preaching accountability, if that is the case Penner, Stoll and Hunter should be gone at the deadline. How can any King fan honestly expect Dean Lombardi to reward Dustin Penner with his horrid stretch as an LA King? I don't know what his points per a game are in LA but he has to go down as one of the worst Kings in their history and that's saying something given their history sucks.
Here's what gets me about this statement. When Penner first came here it was obvious he was struggling adapting to the system TM had in place and he wasn't playing the game he was in EDM. Then there were the complaints about his weight and he busted his butt all off-season getting into shape this year... Then the whole team is terrible on the offense side of things not just Penner (who struggled with injuries early) to the point where TM is fired... Sutter comes in, Penner has a setback which he comes out and says exactly what happened pancakegate... now that he's healthy, Sutter is adjusting things and Penner is playing his best hockey as a King...

How exactly has Penner not been completely and openly accountable and professional about every single thing that has happened to him up to this point?

Same with Stoll, I understand he's overpaid for his role on the team now, but try to keep in mind he was a 2nd line C when he signed that contract and is seeing diminished icetime due to Richards and Loki. And he's still the only C the Kings have that is consistently good in the faceoff circle and still solid defensively.

As far as the worst Kings ever go, Jeremy Roenick, Valeri Bure, and Beachball Cloutier all say "hi."

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01-18-2012, 12:11 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I don't think the point totals play into it actually in terms what the rest of the team would feel. For them, I'd imagine it's more about work ethic.

Penner's numbers are not there this year, but virtually all Kings numbers are down from the past, both in terms of last years and overall career averages.

Penner though is definately working much harder than last year and seems to be getting better under Sutter. He has nine points in his last 20 games. Nothing great I agree, but over a full season that is a 37 point pace, far better than the 18 you suggested. At $1.5 - $2 million, I'd take a 35-40 point Penner in hopes he can continue to rebound and put up even better numbers next year and I doubt you'd find to many players who can put up those kinds of points with his size and skill who are also at least decent defensively at $2 million. Considering the injury issues he's had this year as well, it's likely he will continue to improve on how he looked early in the season assuming he can stay healthy.

I'm also sure the rest of the team would agree.
So you're suggesting keep Penner around to show the other Kings work ethic?

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01-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Here's what gets me about this statement. When Penner first came here it was obvious he was struggling adapting to the system TM had in place and he wasn't playing the game he was in EDM. Then there were the complaints about his weight and he busted his butt all off-season getting into shape this year... Then the whole team is terrible on the offense side of things not just Penner (who struggled with injuries early) to the point where TM is fired... Sutter comes in, Penner has a setback which he comes out and says exactly what happened pancakegate... now that he's healthy, Sutter is adjusting things and Penner is playing his best hockey as a King...

How exactly has Penner not been completely and openly accountable and professional about every single thing that has happened to him up to this point?

Same with Stoll, I understand he's overpaid for his role on the team now, but try to keep in mind he was a 2nd line C when he signed that contract and is seeing diminished icetime due to Richards and Loki. And he's still the only C the Kings have that is consistently good in the faceoff circle and still solid defensively.

As far as the worst Kings ever go, Jeremy Roenick, Valeri Bure, and Beachball Cloutier all say "hi."
Roenick-58 games played in a Kings uniform, 9 goals, 13 assists, 22 points and a minus 5.
Penner-54 games played in a Kings uniform, 5 goals, 12 assists, 17 points and a minus 4.

I think this is where you tell me stats don't mean everything.

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01-18-2012, 12:24 PM
  #31
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01-18-2012, 12:49 PM
  #32
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he took less money, and more pancakes.

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01-18-2012, 12:51 PM
  #33
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At the very least you take him as a bottom 6 option. After all the talk of hurting after losing Handzus, Poni, Frolov, Simmonds, etc... They all made ~$3 million more or less, Simmonds to be there shortly.

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01-18-2012, 01:02 PM
  #34
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As is the case most of the time, I would doubt Penner would take less to come back with the Kings. Free agents just don't normally do that, anywhere. They may sign with a different team for less(like Handzus), but they don't usually come back to the team that doesn't want to pay them as much as they did the year before.

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01-18-2012, 01:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
At the very least you take him as a bottom 6 option. After all the talk of hurting after losing Handzus, Poni, Frolov, Simmonds, etc... They all made ~$3 million more or less, Simmonds to be there shortly.
If Dean Lombardi didn't even attempt to re-sign Frolov, why on earth would he try to sign Penner?

I don't know who is out there as UFA's but I guarantee you there are plenty of guys that can perform as well, if not, better than Penner has.

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01-18-2012, 01:19 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
If Dean Lombardi didn't even attempt to re-sign Frolov, why on earth would he try to sign Penner?

I don't know who is out there as UFA's but I guarantee you there are plenty of guys that can perform as well, if not, better than Penner has.
He likely walks and Lombardi likely doesn't offer him anything enticing, but the question on the table is if you would re-sign Penner, and I would have to say yes Then I would also make sure he gets planted in front of the net so he becomes offensively effective again.

It all depends on what you are looking for from the bottom 6, but he played a pretty strong and responsible game against Vancouver, if you could get that from him throughout most of the year, he would make a great bottom 6 player. With numbers like $1.5-2.5 million being tossed around, I don't see how you could pass that up. $3.5-4 million? Yeah, I'd let him walk.

Still, we spent decent assets to get him, and he has been a successful goal scorer at every point of his life except here. You just know he will sign somewhere else, they'll put him in front of the net, and he will perform well enough to collectively facepalm around here. In this hypothetical world we are creating, he is taking less money, you can try to slot him back with the top 6, if that doesn't work out, he improves the bottom 6, or you trade him and get some assets, any sort of return, from him.

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01-18-2012, 01:46 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
If Dean Lombardi didn't even attempt to re-sign Frolov, why on earth would he try to sign Penner?

I don't know who is out there as UFA's but I guarantee you there are plenty of guys that can perform as well, if not, better than Penner has.
as a compliment to both Frolov and Penner...

Penner was much more physical, and suited for a 3rd line crash the net role.

Frolov has too much skill to play on a 3rd line, but Penner seemingly fits the bill. When he is on his game, he's big he's physical, he's wreckless and he'll get a few goals.

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01-18-2012, 02:16 PM
  #38
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As far as the worst Kings ever go, Jeremy Roenick, Valeri Bure, and Beachball Cloutier all say "hi."
and Grant Fuhr sends a postcard.

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01-18-2012, 02:25 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
I know! I love Kurri, pretty much everything he's ever posted cracks me up.

Don't ever change Kurri.
the sad thing is i'm always serious

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01-18-2012, 02:47 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
So you're suggesting keep Penner around to show the other Kings work ethic?
Yes, that's exactly what I said Why put words in my mouth? I said, in a nutshell he has worked hard here and for $2 million or less, he is worth what he has provide, especially since DS has come in to coach.

He has had a few injuries, suffered through the same scoring drought which the rest of the team has, and he's worked hard to get out of it without being a suck and complaining or running and hiding from all the negativity coming his way. If I get the same Penner that I've seen this year, yes, I absolutely sign him for $2 million to play that way.

If in all that you still get "keeping Penner to teach other Kings work eithic" then read it over and over again until you don't or your eyes bleed. I don't care which.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Roenick-58 games played in a Kings uniform, 9 goals, 13 assists, 22 points and a minus 5.
Penner-54 games played in a Kings uniform, 5 goals, 12 assists, 17 points and a minus 4.

I think this is where you tell me stats don't mean everything.
So Penner is still producing at the same pace as a potential Hall of Famer was during a more offensively open time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFanInRI View Post
and Grant Fuhr sends a postcard.
Which was signed by Jamie Storr, Alyn MacCauley, Ladislav Nagy, Mark Parrish and Anson Carter

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01-18-2012, 03:11 PM
  #41
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at this point you cut bait and move on. i think in the long run it would be better for both sides personally. i would rather see DL bring up one of the 'kids' and have him maturing in LA, versus having Penner out there. think about it right now. what if either Bud or Oscar were given just half the ice time that Penner has gotten this season? LA will have committed to 1+ seasons of skating him on the wing, that could have been used to help develop someone for the long-term.

LA can't keep bringing guys in or re-signing them under the conditions of 'non-production, under-production, etc'. you produce you stay. you produce, the team produces....you win. simple concept really when you think about it.

the same holds true for others like lewis, richardson, stoll. these guys HAVE to start getting on the sheet. being the guy 'that does the little things, that don't show on the sheet' only goes so far. eventually someone has to get on the sheet to win games.

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01-18-2012, 05:04 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Roenick-58 games played in a Kings uniform, 9 goals, 13 assists, 22 points and a minus 5.
Penner-54 games played in a Kings uniform, 5 goals, 12 assists, 17 points and a minus 4.

I think this is where you tell me stats don't mean everything.
Your right because 5 more points in 4 more games is just so shockingly different... Especially when Roenick was pissing and moaning to the media about his skates not being sharpened correctly and making excuses about why he wasn't producing.

I think this is the part where you form a not so smarky response to the other points in my post because there were actually some questions in there that I'd like to here you opinion on...

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01-18-2012, 06:05 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
as a compliment to both Frolov and Penner...

Penner was much more physical, and suited for a 3rd line crash the net role.

Frolov has too much skill to play on a 3rd line, but Penner seemingly fits the bill. When he is on his game, he's big he's physical, he's wreckless and he'll get a few goals.
Was that on purpose or a Freudian slip?

------------

I doubt Penner isn't going to have an option besides playing on the Kings 3rd line. And regardless, I think Tikkanen is right. The Kings let Ponikarovsky walk last summer with pretty much the same production as Penner and at least it looked like Ponikarovsky was trying most of the time. I'd rather bring Ponikarovsky back before I'd re-sign Penner.

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01-18-2012, 06:30 PM
  #44
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I really don't have alot of time for professional hockey players that refuse to keep their body in PEAK physical condition. Even if you are putting up the numbers I feel playing at this level when you are out of shape is just a recipe for disaster.

I know it's hard to see underneath all the gear but the other night I got some pretty good looks at doughty up close and he has definitely trimmed down from what he once was.

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01-18-2012, 08:32 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
I really don't have alot of time for professional hockey players that refuse to keep their body in PEAK physical condition. Even if you are putting up the numbers I feel playing at this level when you are out of shape is just a recipe for disaster.

I know it's hard to see underneath all the gear but the other night I got some pretty good looks at doughty up close and he has definitely trimmed down from what he once was.
Thing with that is sometimes guys just never learn how to eat or train properly until they are at this level. I used to know a guy that was about 5'10 190lbs and was just cut. Kid was 17 and was build like a tank. You'd look at him and you'd think he'd be a monster when he got on the ice. Problem was that he was a goalie and would take forever to recover from making a save because he spent all his time building muscle instead of juggling, focusing on his core and his balance to improve hand-eye coordination, foot speed etc.

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01-18-2012, 08:37 PM
  #46
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Initial reaction is to say no, try to get better talent to play up front, but I want to see how he ends the season and how he performs during the playoffs. If it's pretty much the same where he is off most nights and on for some nights, then the Kings can do better.

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01-18-2012, 10:51 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Initial reaction is to say no, try to get better talent to play up front, but I want to see how he ends the season and how he performs during the playoffs. If it's pretty much the same where he is off most nights and on for some nights, then the Kings can do better.
I would agree with this. If Sutter can keep Penner shining, I would offer an extension of 3 million. If he can't up the production (in spite of the effort I acknowledge he's putting forth) the cut him loose.

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01-18-2012, 10:59 PM
  #48
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if Penner accepted a deal in which he paid the kings 1.5 million dollars I Think you guys should atleast consider taking him back.

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01-19-2012, 12:29 AM
  #49
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At that price I would because we know he can score 20 goals. We could re-coup his cost in trade at that point.

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01-19-2012, 08:47 AM
  #50
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Penner seems like the type of guy who will end up in Detroit or Philly and then have a rejuvenated year of 25 - 30 goals at some sort of bargain basement price, leading to us to complain about TM, DL, the California lifestyle, Penners wife and pancakes, as well as everything in between.

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