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Glen Sather Appreciation Thread

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Old
01-18-2012, 02:13 PM
  #51
stan the caddy
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
half of a season stan. one half of one season out of 12 seasons here. that is 1 out of 23 great halves of hockey. thats the point. i agree hes done a much better job, but before we pat him on the ass and say job well done, go smoke another cigar, lets see how the season pans out and next season too.
It's not going to take me two more years to realize the talent that he's put together is great. The Rangers don't have to win the cup to justify all the really great moves he's made recently. Even his small moves, guys like Bickel and Stralman have been excellent.

There's nothing about this current team you can complain about. NOTHING!!!! You have to reach into the past to rip on Sather.

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01-18-2012, 02:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Again, hindsight is 20-20. Gomez and Drury weren't considered bad players when they were signed. We desperately needed centers and we were one of the better teams in the league the year we lost to Pitt. Let it go, the team we have now is amazing.

The team has been getting younger since the lockout but we still use free agency.
How long are people around here going to perpetuate these inaccurate myths?

They were role players whose numbers had been inflated by a combination of the officiating following the lockout and the systems and/or players that surrounded them. Drury was a third line center who put up a lot of points on a highly talented power play unit. Gomez was an inconsistent, low efficiency, low hockey IQ, mediocre second line center who had found chemistry with 1-2 wingers in his entire career. This team was not "one of the better teams in the league." They defeated an Atlanta Thrashers team that didn't even deserve to be in the playoffs. They were better the year before, when they were dragged into the second round of the playoffs by 2-3 players, and they weren't one of the better teams in the league then, either.

Only someone with zero ability to evaluate talent or analyze the strategy of this sport could believe that Scott Gomez was ever worth anything resembling super star money (or for that matter, Drury, who was at least a useful player simply mishandled by this team in every regard). There's no other explanation for a Redden signing, either. There were no questions about the fact that Redden was simply too slow and not motivated enough to be a major contributor at the NHL level. All three were epic blunders. Sather didn't just sign all three, he committed huge money and term to all three. Some plan.

Everything that this team needed to go through, the entire rebuilding process that took years and years and was necessary because of the damage that clueless Sather had inflicted on this club, along with his original crony support staff, was STILL put in jeopardy by the Gomez, Drury, and Redden signings, among the worst, most illogical free agent signings in any of the major team sports ever. I'm sure Sather planned on buying out Drury's contract, burying Redden in the minors before half of his deal had even been completed.

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01-18-2012, 02:23 PM
  #53
Kel Varnsen
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So, your position is that even though the results were utter failure, they did a good job because it looked good on paper at the time? You'd be happy with a perpetually losing team as long as they continue to make moves you agree with?

You apparently don't understand professional sports. People don't keep their jobs based on good intentions.
You should reward/blame not based on desert or outcome. You should reward/blame based on whatever will produce good future results. In the case of job performance, process typically trumps all else. If you're doing things the right way, more often than not things will end up good. If you do things the wrong way you can still luck out and have good results. You should fire the man who gets lucky if he's not following good process, and retain the man who has had bad luck but is doing it the right way.

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01-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
How long are people around here going to perpetuate these inaccurate myths?

They were role players whose numbers had been inflated by a combination of the officiating following the lockout and the systems and/or players that surrounded them. Drury was a third line center who put up a lot of points on a highly talented power play unit. Gomez was an inconsistent, low efficiency, low hockey IQ, mediocre second line center who had found chemistry with 1-2 wingers in his entire career. This team was not "one of the better teams in the league." They defeated an Atlanta Thrashers team that didn't even deserve to be in the playoffs. They were better the year before, when they were dragged into the second round of the playoffs by 2-3 players, and they weren't one of the better teams in the league then, either.

Only someone with zero ability to evaluate talent or analyze the strategy of this sport could believe that Scott Gomez was ever worth anything resembling super star money (or for that matter, Drury, who was at least a useful player simply mishandled by this team in every regard). There's no other explanation for a Redden signing, either. There were no questions about the fact that Redden was simply too slow and not motivated enough to be a major contributor at the NHL level. All three were epic blunders. Sather didn't just sign all three, he committed huge money and term to all three. Some plan.

Everything that this team needed to go through, the entire rebuilding process that took years and years and was necessary because of the damage that clueless Sather had inflicted on this club, along with his original crony support staff, was STILL put in jeopardy by the Gomez, Drury, and Redden signings, among the worst, most illogical free agent signings in any of the major team sports ever. I'm sure Sather planned on buying out Drury's contract, burying Redden in the minors before half of his deal had even been completed.
What myth did I perpetuate?

1. Were Drury and Gomez regarded as the two best centers in free agency - YES

2. Did we desperately need help at center - YES

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01-18-2012, 02:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
It's not going to take me two more years to realize the talent that he's put together is great. The Rangers don't have to win the cup to justify all the really great moves he's made recently. Even his small moves, guys like Bickel and Stralman have been excellent.

There's nothing about this current team you can complain about. NOTHING!!!! You have to reach into the past to rip on Sather.
you're clearly missing the point. we've won like this for half a season. still can miss the playoffs (i know that is a long shot). a lot can go wrong in the next 38 games stan, and then what will you say? what excuse are we going to hear from you then?

im not discounting the moves that hes made to bring us to where we are at all. he's done a very good job the last few years and i acknowledged that. but the fact is, its still half of a season, things can change in the snap of a finger, we know that all to well around here. lets relax and see what happens the rest of the year first.

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01-18-2012, 02:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
you're clearly missing the point. we've won like this for half a season. still can miss the playoffs (i know that is a long shot). a lot can go wrong in the next 38 games stan, and then what will you say? what excuse are we going to hear from you then?

im not discounting the moves that hes made to bring us to where we are at all. he's done a very good job the last few years and i acknowledged that. but the fact is, its still half of a season, things can change in the snap of a finger, we know that all to well around here. lets relax and see what happens the rest of the year first.
Give one ****ing thing worth complaining about with regards to how the CURRENT team was assembled.

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01-18-2012, 02:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
You should reward/blame not based on desert or outcome. You should reward/blame based on whatever will produce good future results. In the case of job performance, process typically trumps all else. If you're doing things the right way, more often than not things will end up good. If you do things the wrong way you can still luck out and have good results. You should fire the man who gets lucky if he's not following good process, and retain the man who has had bad luck but is doing it the right way.
Hahaha. Ok. Now I suppose you're going to try to convince everyone that signing Drury, Gomez and Redden represented doing things "the right way".

Like I said, you have no clue about professional sports. If Sather had been doing things the right way, it wouldn't have taken 11 years to get to this point. And we still haven't accomplished anything. Having a good team means nothing during the regular season if you don't then have post-season success. Ask washington fans about that.

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01-18-2012, 02:32 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Give one ****ing thing worth complaining about with regards to how the CURRENT team was assembled?
if you care to read the rest of the post, you will see that i fully acknowledge the good job he has done with this years team. im not complaining about this years team whatsoever. what im saying for the 8th time, and just like everyone else here has said, is that this team has played lights out hockey for a half of a season in his twelve years.

i want to see where this season goes before i go praising him for the job he's done based on his track record here. because face it, his track record absolutely sucks and all i have to do is point to the connecticut whale and give you 6.5 million reasons why.

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01-18-2012, 02:32 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Give one ****ing thing worth complaining about with regards to how the CURRENT team was assembled?
Easy. We don't score enough.

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01-18-2012, 02:33 PM
  #60
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There has been a narrative on this board for Years. It assumes the worst. Be it Rangers management, players or enthusiastic and positive fans. When it comes to the latter the more cynical in the fan base tend to infer that those of us who have been and continue to be positive about the team and it's future are foolish dolts manipulated by the Machiavellian Dark Lord Sather.

I continue to get a huge kick out of this.

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01-18-2012, 02:33 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Hahaha. Ok. Now I suppose you're going to try to convince everyone that signing Drury, Gomez and Redden represented doing things "the right way".

Like I said, you have no clue about professional sports. If Sather had been doing things the right way, it wouldn't have taken 11 years to get to this point. And we still haven't accomplished anything. Having a good team means nothing during the regular season if you don't then have post-season success. Ask washington fans about that.
Good thing you have no power over how this team is run, otherwise we wouldn't be first in the entire NHL right now.

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01-18-2012, 02:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
You should reward/blame not based on desert or outcome. You should reward/blame based on whatever will produce good future results. In the case of job performance, process typically trumps all else. If you're doing things the right way, more often than not things will end up good. If you do things the wrong way you can still luck out and have good results. You should fire the man who gets lucky if he's not following good process, and retain the man who has had bad luck but is doing it the right way.
IMHO this spin makes no sense.

This is sports. You are your record...Period. That's how it works. Revisionist history does not apply here.

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01-18-2012, 02:36 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
You should reward/blame not based on desert or outcome. You should reward/blame based on whatever will produce good future results. In the case of job performance, process typically trumps all else. If you're doing things the right way, more often than not things will end up good. If you do things the wrong way you can still luck out and have good results. You should fire the man who gets lucky if he's not following good process, and retain the man who has had bad luck but is doing it the right way.
how do you know that all our prospects will turn out the way we want and think they will.. hugh jessiman was supposed to be good wasnt he? clearly he didnt do things the right way for 10 years here. he shouldve been fired a long time ago.

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01-18-2012, 02:36 PM
  #64
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Easy. We don't score enough.
Wow. We're top 10 in goals per game, and number 1 in goals against per game and you're still *****ing.



You're the ******* on the plane.

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01-18-2012, 02:37 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
if you care to read the rest of the post, you will see that i fully acknowledge the good job he has done with this years team. im not complaining about this years team whatsoever. what im saying for the 8th time, and just like everyone else here has said, is that this team has played lights out hockey for a half of a season in his twelve years.

i want to see where this season goes before i go praising him for the job he's done based on his track record here. because face it, his track record absolutely sucks and all i have to do is point to the connecticut whale and give you 6.5 million reasons why.
Well, thanks for your contribution. I'm so glad that you could remind me that Sather was once a horrific GM. I didn't already know that because I've been living under a rock for the past 15 years.

He's doing a good job right now. Don't poo all over what he's doing now because of what he did in the past.

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01-18-2012, 02:37 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Good thing you have no power over how this team is run, otherwise we wouldn't be first in the entire NHL right now.
good thing you're not in charge of the team because we'd be stuck in perpetual mediocrity for a long time. oh wait, we have been until this season

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01-18-2012, 02:38 PM
  #67
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IMHO this spin makes no sense.

This is sports. You are your record...Period. That's how it works. Revisionist history does not apply here.
Exactly. Only judge based on the information that was available at the time. Looking back and judging is revisionist history.

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01-18-2012, 02:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Good thing you have no power over how this team is run, otherwise we wouldn't be first in the entire NHL right now.
Yeah. We would have been in 1st years ago lol. Clark and Gorton are the biggest reasons for our success this year. If you think otherwise, it's only because you are willfully naive.

I still want to know what it is that Sather has on you to make you such a blind-faith cheerleader.

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01-18-2012, 02:39 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
how do you know that all our prospects will turn out the way we want and think they will.. hugh jessiman was supposed to be good wasnt he? clearly he didnt do things the right way for 10 years here. he shouldve been fired a long time ago.
Even if none of the rest of them pan out we're in damn good shape right now.

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01-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Sather used to be the laughing stock of the league, he's not anymore.

If Dolan gave you guys the choice of firing Sather tomorrow, would you do it?
Interesting question, and the fact that I actually have to think about it only serves to prove your point. However, if I could have somebody with the same intentions as Sather, but who ISN'T Sather, I'd absolutely fire him. I don't want a GM that's going to trade away young assets. I don't want a GM that will fire a coach that's working. I don't want a GM that will hit the panic button on a moment's notice and mortgage our future in dumb trades.

At the same time, I want a GM that actually can see what's best for the team. I want a GM that spends wisely in the free agency. I want a GM that gets us in to the Eastern Conference Finals at least, and in less than a decade.

We're on the right track now for sure. The young players will only be getting better, and I'm not even that concerned about losing Richards and Gaborik in the future. We have a terrific core in place. I don't want to change what Sather's doing currently, but that doesn't mean I trust him as the one to do it. If you beat a dog for years upon years in a row, and only recently start scratching it behind the ears, the dog's still going to be expecting a beating every time you reach to scratch him. That's how I feel with Sather here.

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01-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #71
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good thing you're not in charge of the team because we'd be stuck in perpetual mediocrity for a long time. oh wait, we have been until this season
stings a lot less with that caveat

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01-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Well, thanks for your contribution. I'm so glad that you could remind me that Sather was once a horrific GM. I didn't already know that because I've been living under a rock for the past 15 years.

He's doing a good job right now. Don't poo all over what he's doing now because of what he did in the past.
ive said hes doing a good job right now. are you not following what im saying? ive said 5 times already that im happy with this team this year, but you continue to just look past that.

what ive continually said is i want to see this year pan out before i say job well done. ITS A HALF SEASON OF HOCKEY. we can still get bounced out in the first round, we could still miss the playoffs.

i like the team thats assembled, things are going well, but the team has some flaws, and like i said before, we've played just over a half of a season. things can change quickly. so lets relax before we give him the keys to the city.

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01-18-2012, 02:41 PM
  #73
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stings a lot less with that caveat
no it doesnt. i wouldve liked to have been a legit contender for the better part of the last decade.

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01-18-2012, 02:42 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Exactly. Only judge based on the information that was available at the time. Looking back and judging is revisionist history.
Looking at the record is not revisionist history. You are your record. Look at Sather's record over the last 12 years. Even Stan the Caddy agrees it's bad.

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01-18-2012, 02:43 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Wow. We're top 10 in goals per game, and number 1 in goals against per game and you're still *****ing.



You're the ******* on the plane.
Stan asked what there is to complain about. What, you don't think we could use more scoring?

We're 10th at 2.8, a number that has been going down since the start of the season. Look up and you'll see boston is just as good defensively and way ahead of us offensively. So is Detroit.

I'm not saying we can't beat those teams, but more offense would certainly help.

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