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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Vincent Lecavalier

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #51
toob
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Lecavalier injured his wrist roughly half way through the season, it was speculated at least and sure enough did have surgery on it later on. I would say the speculation was correct given he went from rarely being held off the scoresheet to 5 games in a row pointless. Vinny wasn't like that, when he was hot he WAS HOT.

Agreed Vinny looked great in the playoffs, IMO if the Lightning win another cup soon it happens before Marty retires and it is a combo of Marty, Vinny and Stammer leading the team.
gotcha

makes a lot more sense than him just starting to coast after being on top by so much for so long because you can understand why hed float playing under Melrose but not when he has a 10 point lead over everyone else

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01-15-2012, 04:36 PM
  #52
charliolemieux
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LeCavalier has had everything he needed to have put up consistant 90-100pt seasons.

I think he has found a comfort level and he plays to it. I hope he finds the thing he needs to make him an ppg+ player again. He is just to good to keep putting up 60-70pt seasons.

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01-15-2012, 04:51 PM
  #53
Hardyvan123
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
That's look nice but as TDMM has said in another thread you're just cherrypicking the proper stats
Maybe you don't know what cherry picking means or is.

Quite simply since 99, Vinny's 1st year he is 7th in points among all players since then 99-12.

As a general rule of thumb IMO, if a guy is in 10th or higher it gives up a barometer to judge his career as HHOF worthy.It's a 12 year period not cherry picking a season here or there.

We will see how he ages as he is only 31 now and has plenty of time left to add to his HHOF case or not.

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01-15-2012, 10:27 PM
  #54
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Maybe you don't know what cherry picking means or is.

Quite simply since 99, Vinny's 1st year he is 7th in points among all players since then 99-12.

As a general rule of thumb IMO, if a guy is in 10th or higher it gives up a barometer to judge his career as HHOF worthy.It's a 12 year period not cherry picking a season here or there.

We will see how he ages as he is only 31 now and has plenty of time left to add to his HHOF case or not.
That's half the battle. But being 7th in points during that stretch doesn't guarantee a HHOF berth. Brad Richards is among those leaders too. Hossa is up there. None are guaranteed the HHOF, some not even close.

Mike Liut led the 1980s in wins and no one is going to induct him. So you have to look further than the numbers. Out of the former big 3 of the Lightning Lecavalier is in my mind a clear 3rd behind St. Louis and Richards. It's too bad, I was always waiting for him to bust out for good but he has two great seasons and is on a clear decline right now. I wish it weren't true

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Old
01-16-2012, 04:16 PM
  #55
MadLuke
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Also it is very subjectif to look at player points during a large spam like this.

Lot of very good players, stopped to play during the 99-2010 spam, a lot of good one started after 1999.

you should make a list of player that player that played all the 99-2012 with a good strech of prime year's to see if 7 in points is good or not.

Last i checked, a lot of players in this top 10 was not hhof, and player like Ray withney were close to vinny.

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Old
01-16-2012, 07:25 PM
  #56
BM67
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Here is a list of about everybody named in the thread showing where they ranked in points after each of their first 12 seasons compared to others over the span of their careers.

Lecavalier had the 7th most points over the period 1998-99 to 2009-10 and 1998-99 to 2010-11. Only Brad Richards and Ilya Kovalchuk top that on this list, and only Oates, Alfredsson and Turgeon equal it.

Player123456789101112
Vinnie Lecavalier230788710062483620141477
Bernie Nicholls22516084463128221510101012
Eric Staal215312924181817-----
Marty St. Louis63847031526517310387564026218
Bobby Smith2716139991091110912
Pete Mahovlich132128182209198129967457362423
Adam Oates321207155106693325159997
Sergei Fedorov272323131210121817181816
Brad Richards62513318109101496--
Dino Ciccarelli2265745415339262121202320
Marian Hossa642350210124906243241515139
Daniel Alfredsson68384257494540312414107
Ray Whitney54152834830625028320015713012110182
Martin Straka3791761791601591441008457686465
Patrick Elias716662387256170101796953564437
Mats Sundin734525242422191511111210
Pavel Demitra62856347452633418512912090625547
Rick Nash15881777862453228----
Alexi Kovalev19213312710410795796844403433
Ilya Kovalchuk83521711108544---
Pierre Turgeon146663024171110108887

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Old
01-17-2012, 03:10 PM
  #57
lazerbullet
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I will be eaten alive, but Lecavalier reminds me another talented, big and strong center... Alexei Yashin.

Both top picks. Although Yashin was 2nd Overall.
Both had some spectacular seasons. Yashin was a Hart Finalist once.
Both have overall great offensive tools and all the talent in the world. But somehow you always wanted more. Actually Yashin's offensive stats are somewhat better. But in the end you could say that both played lazy hockey way too often.

Vinny at least won a Cup and was good in the playoffs. While Yashin went mentally golfing when post-season started. To be fair he never played on strong teams and the Isles actually have never made the playoffs since he was bought out.

And in the end... both sure cashed in nicely. Way beyond their real value.

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Old
01-17-2012, 06:31 PM
  #58
Ishdul
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I disagree with the assessment that Yashin was lazy or that Yashin had a similar talent level to Lecavalier. As an Ottawa fan, despite my personal feelings to the guy I can not blame him a bit for his effort. He wasn't a great skater and while he was big and a great shot he wasn't among the top of the league in either aspect, and yet he turned in some great offensive performances with very little support here. People often mistake being bad defensively for poor effort but Yashin was more an average skater who's best aspects of the game didn't translate much at all to his own end and didn't have the defensive awareness to cover for that, and I don't think he was some outrageously bad defensive player the way Daigle was. In fact, I'd say that his effort level was one of the big reasons for his success as he never took a game or a play off, he played through injuries and anyone who called him soft was an idiot because I never saw him shy away from contact. The only elite aspect of his game was his stickhandling, and it was more about being able to get the puck in good position for a shot as oppose to deking guys out. Lecavalier was bigger, had a better shot and had a definite advantage in skating and playmaking on Yashin while being at least as good of a stickhandler.

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Old
01-18-2012, 02:11 PM
  #59
AMac2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Let me guess, you are going to base this on their career or some other scoring average no doubt.

look a lot of people think that Oates deserves to be in the hall but that really should have no bearing of whether or not Vinny is on track for making the Hall.

For the record Vinny is 7th in points for everyone that has played since he was in the league which puts him in the HHOF equation along with his Stanely Cup.

It's funny the guy 1st in points suffers the same impression as Vinny does, in fact many of the top scorers of the era do which may be that people are having a hard time figuring out how stats play out in lower scoring era.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points
Wow, check out who has the lowest +/- out of everyone on that list.

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