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Old
12-28-2005, 02:05 PM
  #1
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Dawes

http://www.theahl.com/AHL/OnTheBeat/...8/1371169.html

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12-28-2005, 03:43 PM
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Nice find Calder.

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Old
12-29-2005, 11:46 AM
  #3
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When I read articles like this I can't help but get excited about the future of this team. Dawes is one of the guys I can't wait to see. Same with Helminen. The fact that Helminen is scoring now is just a bonus. 2 time defensive player of the year, from that great Michigan program, I would have been happy with giving Ortmeyer his buddy back to kill penalties with. I really love the direction this team is going in, and how after so many years of empty cupboards, we finally have young players with bright futures pushing to make this team. I think there really are some good years to come, and the fact that it will more than likely be home grown kids making it happen, IMO, will make it even better.

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12-29-2005, 12:07 PM
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off topic

is Helminen a center?

In that case I'd like to see Ruccin moved maybe next year and move up Moore to the second line center spot and have Helminen, Hollweg and Ortmeyer on the fourth line or do you think Helminen will be able to produce at the nhl level?

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Old
12-29-2005, 12:08 PM
  #5
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I'm just wondering why everyone says that he's small. He's 190 LBs according to that article and that's good for 5'8. I know he's short, but how's he "small"? I just did that math and that's a little over 201 LBs for a guy that's 6 feet tall, that's not too bad.

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12-29-2005, 12:34 PM
  #6
Anthony Mauro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
I'm just wondering why everyone says that he's small. He's 190 LBs according to that article and that's good for 5'8. I know he's short, but how's he "small"? I just did that math and that's a little over 201 LBs for a guy that's 6 feet tall, that's not too bad.
I guess its short then. He's very stocky, can take hits, and give them.

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12-29-2005, 12:41 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
I'm just wondering why everyone says that he's small. He's 190 LBs according to that article and that's good for 5'8. I know he's short, but how's he "small"? I just did that math and that's a little over 201 LBs for a guy that's 6 feet tall, that's not too bad.
Dawes is stocky, but he's not very tall.

The problem is that you can't compare it on body mass. For example you can't really say "Oh well a guy who is 6'0 200 lbs has as much mass per inch as a guy who is 6'4, 230 pounds". It's not really the mass per inch that makes the difference or causes the concern so much as the fact that when he lines up with some forwards he's still giving as much as 8 inches and 30 some odd pounds.

Now having said that, I think Dawes has the talent to avoid that stuff, especially in the new NHL. He's not particularly fast so much as slippery.

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12-29-2005, 12:56 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Dawes is stocky, but he's not very tall.

The problem is that you can't compare it on body mass. For example you can't really say "Oh well a guy who is 6'0 200 lbs has as much mass per inch as a guy who is 6'4, 230 pounds". It's not really the mass per inch that makes the difference or causes the concern so much as the fact that when he lines up with some forwards he's still giving as much as 8 inches and 30 some odd pounds.

Now having said that, I think Dawes has the talent to avoid that stuff, especially in the new NHL. He's not particularly fast so much as slippery.
Will he be able to handle big, physical dmen in the NHL?

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12-29-2005, 01:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
Will he be able to handle big, physical dmen in the NHL?
Well there are never any gurantees with any player. Personally I think Dawes will be able to. I think he'll ideally need bigger linemates (a power forward perhaps) but I've been behind this kid since he was drafted and I think he's going to make it. He's got legit top 6 talent, but I also think he'll probably be brought along slowly.

From a talent perspect he is a natural goal scorer who is slippery and has managed to avoid getting drilled. With the new NHL rules he could be VERY dangerous on the powerplay and in drawing penalties. Like i said, he's not going to blow by a lot of people who the way he moves is hard for people to contain.

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Old
12-29-2005, 01:11 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrancemperium
is Helminen a center?

In that case I'd like to see Ruccin moved maybe next year and move up Moore to the second line center spot and have Helminen, Hollweg and Ortmeyer on the fourth line or do you think Helminen will be able to produce at the nhl level?
I wouldn't. I don't think Moore has 2nd line center talent. And, with the likes of Immonen, Graham and Dubinsky in the pipeline, I wouldn't expect him to be the future 2nd line center.

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Old
12-29-2005, 06:29 PM
  #11
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Regardless of where people are drafted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Dawes is stocky, but he's not very tall.

The problem is that you can't compare it on body mass. For example you can't really say "Oh well a guy who is 6'0 200 lbs has as much mass per inch as a guy who is 6'4, 230 pounds". It's not really the mass per inch that makes the difference or causes the concern so much as the fact that when he lines up with some forwards he's still giving as much as 8 inches and 30 some odd pounds.

Now having said that, I think Dawes has the talent to avoid that stuff, especially in the new NHL. He's not particularly fast so much as slippery.
they have to possess the skill and knack for either avioding the body contact, or brace themselves alla Pat Verbeck and step into the hitter just as the hitter is about to nail them. Small player whether they be Dawes or Bossy, or Savard, or St. Louis have to game. Dawes appears to possess a game that can compete effectively in the NHL.
What I find laughable is Parise did slightly less than Dawes did in the WJC and yet Parise received raves, Dawes, nothing but doubts! Excuse me but aren't these same players that they competed with and against likely to be their opponents in the NHL one day too? Or do those opponents come from somewhere else, as some other posters would have you believe that playing in the WJC doesn't amount to beans.

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Old
12-29-2005, 06:35 PM
  #12
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Excellent comment about the need for appropriate sized linemates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Well there are never any gurantees with any player. Personally I think Dawes will be able to. I think he'll ideally need bigger linemates (a power forward perhaps) but I've been behind this kid since he was drafted and I think he's going to make it. He's got legit top 6 talent, but I also think he'll probably be brought along slowly.

From a talent perspect he is a natural goal scorer who is slippery and has managed to avoid getting drilled. With the new NHL rules he could be VERY dangerous on the powerplay and in drawing penalties. Like i said, he's not going to blow by a lot of people who the way he moves is hard for people to contain.
Bossy had Gillies, Savard had Secord, etc. That what team building is about. As ranger fans I think people have to feel confident that Renney & Maloney and yes even Slats understand that and we will eventually see some of our bigger physical players populate the roster. Tampa with the combination of St. Louis and Vinny L. probably is the new wave of pairing a smaller player with a bigger player. Skill will be of more value I think going forward.

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Old
12-29-2005, 06:42 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
they have to possess the skill and knack for either avioding the body contact, or brace themselves alla Pat Verbeck and step into the hitter just as the hitter is about to nail them. Small player whether they be Dawes or Bossy, or Savard, or St. Louis have to game. Dawes appears to possess a game that can compete effectively in the NHL.
What I find laughable is Parise did slightly less than Dawes did in the WJC and yet Parise received raves, Dawes, nothing but doubts! Excuse me but aren't these same players that they competed with and against likely to be their opponents in the NHL one day too? Or do those opponents come from somewhere else, as some other posters would have you believe that playing in the WJC doesn't amount to beans.

Well a large part of this whole mess is hype. Some players get hyped through the roof, others underrated to no end. In that draft the Rangers worked the extrme IMO. Jessiman was hyped and I thought went way too high. Dawes way too low.

The knock on Dawes at the time was his size, his skating was great and there were concerns about his defensive play.

Well he hasn't grown, and his skating isn't really either bad or great but he's worked hard and shown a TON of heart and character.

Marc Savard was a kid who was a fourth round pick, despite being a scoring machine in the OHL. He never played on a WJC team and he's had a great NHL career. He was another kid I loved who never got any hype. Dawes is similar in that sense, though he's slowly been getting his recognition as a prospect.

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Old
12-29-2005, 06:43 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
Bossy had Gillies, Savard had Secord, etc. That what team building is about. As ranger fans I think people have to feel confident that Renney & Maloney and yes even Slats understand that and we will eventually see some of our bigger physical players populate the roster. Tampa with the combination of St. Louis and Vinny L. probably is the new wave of pairing a smaller player with a bigger player. Skill will be of more value I think going forward.

Personally I would've loved to have drafted Getzlaf and put them together.

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Old
12-29-2005, 06:54 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
Will he be able to handle big, physical dmen in the NHL?
One problem with Dawes is that he isn't fast. He got great acceleration and have really fast feets ect. Which results in that when he gets the puck in the attacking zone he can fly past most guys.

But he isn't much of a threat on the rush. He either must do something incredible - succed as a scorer in the NHL without beeing big or a threat on the rush or, become faster on the rush. Neither is impossible, when it comes to Dawes I don't even know if its unlikely, but there are still some huge questionmarks surrounding him. He should get a good long look though.

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