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Official Selling, Retooling, Rebuilding Only Thread

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Old
01-18-2012, 09:56 PM
  #51
Myron Gaines*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I think there's different degrees of transformations to the club:

1-Keeping All Picks and Prospects
2-Selling
3-Retooling
4-Rebuilding
5-Tanking

Not everyone agrees with all those options and people debate the various terms. I think it's time to discuss how much change is needed.

And change can happen with or without current management, that should be discussed also.
We have some good pieces, I wouldn't be against tanking hard for 3-4 years to build a team a la Blackhawks. But I think something between a re-tool and a re-build is possible:

Good pieces to build upon:

Goaltending :If Price is signed (which I think he will) were settled at goal.

Defense: Subban, Markov,Gorges,Emelin.

Offense: Pacioretty,Cole, Plekanec, Gionta, Eller, Bourque, White.

What needs to be done:

1) Gomez's situation por favor

2) Goaltending: Sign Price to a reasonable long-term contract

Offense : Acquire at least one Elite player I.E. Draft Grigorenko/Yakupov and sign Parise.

Defense: P.K Subban is the cornerstone of our defense, but needs a mentor and a guy to look up to. The defense should be built for him to be the player he truly is: One of the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. He doesn't need to worry about playing 28 minutes a game and go out there to shut down Sidney Crosby every night.

3) Change of philosophy: Take the time and make it a duty needed to build a contender and ****ing win a stanley cup each year (Winning mentality), Never take **** from any other organization, Negociate contracts during the season, build a team tougher to play against physically, Not over-evaluate players and never put players in a position too demanding I.E playing Plekanec as your 1st line centre.

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01-18-2012, 10:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
You can't trade Plelanec, you need vets. And you need him to do the hard job the young guys aren't ready for. In theory if you trade Plekanec, you need to keep Gomez to do a bit of that job. I prefer Plekanec.
You dont want Plekanec as an example for the players. This guy dissapears in big games and never there when you need him. Gorges is a good veteran now, Cole also. They should take example on those guys

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01-18-2012, 10:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I agree that we do not need another hasty hiring of a GM again.

I would hope that Molson has the common sense to have already begun the process of vetting candidates.
I would hope so too, but I can understand if he hasn't. It's tempting, but apart from having a desire to win and financial backing of that desire, I'd prefer if Molson didn't step on the toes of whoever the GM is. The Pegula mess in Buffalo is a prime example. I appreciate Molson's attempts to try to maintain stability, even if he's made some rookie mistakes. I think making Gauthier a lame duck GM would limit any usefulness he has in his position, in terms of negotiation with agents or teams. I doubt he would have had the authority to pull of the Cammy trade if Molson was vetting GMs. Anyways, the offseason is the best time to interview candidates (assistant GMs, foreign GMs, etc.)

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:17 PM
  #54
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If you guys are selling could we have emelin please?

I say that the habs already have a good core to build around, they just need to get rid of the deadweight overpaid guys that dont show up.

Build around Subban, Price, Eller, Patches with solid vets like Cole, Gorges and get rid of dead weight like Kaberle Gomez Campoli etc

Good luck.

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01-18-2012, 10:18 PM
  #55
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We are only 5 pts away from drafting top 2 (3 PTS away if Ducks win tonight), if the management have enough balls, they will start selling soon.. I dont really care if we can have a little more at the deadline than right now for guys like Moen Gill, all I want is a top 2 pick!!! Better start right now to remove some depth.. Then call a guy like Engqvist, who has 0 impact.. Play Budaj more.. 1\4 game..


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Old
01-18-2012, 10:20 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
If you guys are selling could we have emelin please?

I say that the habs already have a good core to build around, they just need to get rid of the deadweight overpaid guys that dont show up.

Build around Subban, Price, Eller, Patches with solid vets like Cole, Gorges and get rid of dead weight like Kaberle Gomez Campoli etc

Good luck.
Emelin is in our plans. Sorry.

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01-18-2012, 10:20 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
If you guys are selling could we have emelin please?

I say that the habs already have a good core to build around, they just need to get rid of the deadweight overpaid guys that dont show up.

Build around Subban, Price, Eller, Patches with solid vets like Cole, Gorges and get rid of dead weight like Kaberle Gomez Campoli etc

Good luck.
He'd certainly be available, but wont come cheap, he's quickly become a fan favourite.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:21 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
If you guys are selling could we have emelin please?

I say that the habs already have a good core to build around,
they just need to get rid of the deadweight overpaid guys that dont show up.

Build around Subban, Price, Eller, Patches with solid vets like Cole, Gorges and get rid of dead weight like Kaberle Gomez Campoli etc

Good luck.
No you may not

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
If you guys are selling could we have emelin please?

I say that the habs already have a good core to build around, they just need to get rid of the deadweight overpaid guys that dont show up.

Build around Subban, Price, Eller, Patches with solid vets like Cole, Gorges and get rid of dead weight like Kaberle Gomez Campoli etc

Good luck.
Emelin is very much part of the core.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:22 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I was deluded by the two weekend games and thought we had a chance but I took two aspirins and feel better know. We're not making the playoffs, so we need to retool:

Between now and the deadline trade:

Campoli
Gill
Kaberle
Darche
Nokie
Gomez

I would keep Moen & Andrei.

At the draft I would trade Gionta. Hopefully we can get two 1st round draft picks (our own & another we traded for). A lottery pick and a middle of the round. Also we may get one or two 2nd round picks on top of our own.

Come July 1st we can see what we need and who we can pick up. If we can trade the players I mentioned we would have:

Bourque Pleks ******
Patches DD Cole
***** Eller AK
Moen White ******
Blunden

Gorges Subban
Markov Emelin
Diaz Weber

I don't think we need to blow things up, A simple retool would do.

The draw backs are:
1) we can't unload the players I mentioned.
2) We get a lottery pick and win the lottery and select a Russian who decides to play in the KHL.
3) Gauthier will be around to direct most or part of this process.
Sign UFAs Brandon Prust and Krys Barch to go along with White on the 4th line. Move Moen to the 3rd.

Get rid of Diaz and Weber and sign UFAs Matt Carkner and Tim Gleason.

Trade AK & Gionta.

Win some games and be one of the tougher teams in the NHL.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Sign UFAs Brandon Prust and Krys Barch to go along with White on the 4th line. Move Moen to the 3rd.

Get rid of Diaz and Weber and sign UFAs Matt Carkner and Tim Gleason.

Trade AK & Gionta.

Win some games and be one of the tougher teams in the NHL.
Derp.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:26 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
If you guys are selling could we have emelin please?

I say that the habs already have a good core to build around, they just need to get rid of the deadweight overpaid guys that dont show up.

Build around Subban, Price, Eller, Patches with solid vets like Cole, Gorges and get rid of dead weight like Kaberle Gomez Campoli etc

Good luck.
no chance with trade Emelin, will be part of the retool\rebuild..

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:29 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
You dont want Plekanec as an example for the players. This guy dissapears in big games and never there when you need him. Gorges is a good veteran now, Cole also. They should take example on those guys
See what's happening to Eller now that Plekanec doesn't take the top line matchups against strong teams. That's why. The reason why some teams always remain bad is because they don't have the vets to handle those tough minutes so they throw young players there before they can handle it and they end up never reaching their potential. It's not only about the leadership. So if you trade Plekanec you need to sign a shutdown third line center to play against top lines, a guy like Malhotra.

And I won't comment on the Plekanec dissapears thing.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
See what's happening to Eller now that Plekanec doesn't take the top line matchups against strong teams. That's why. The reason why some teams always remain bad is because they don't have the vets to handle those tough minutes so they throw young players there before they can handle it and they end up never reaching their potential. It's not only about the leadership. So if you trade Plekanec you need to sign a shutdown third line center to play against top lines, a guy like Malhotra.

And I won't comment on the Plekanec dissapears thing.
Go with a physical third line center that actually comes to play in big games. Much better example for younger players

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01-18-2012, 10:35 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Go with a physical third line center that actually comes to play in big games. Much better example for younger players
Physical or not, if you lose Plekanec, you need a guy that can match up against first lines.

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01-18-2012, 10:36 PM
  #66
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I'd think about trading Cole. His value is very high and we could hopefully package another bad contract with him. I don't mind keeping him around however as a mentor to MaxPac and others.

1. Trade, let walk, whatever (Moen, A Kost, Kaberle, Markov, Gionta).
2. Hide in minors / buyout (Gomez)
3. Draft Grigorenko or Gaunce (both can start in the NHL and be groomed as the top line center while Pleks initially takes the top line attention.

Cole - Grigorenko / Gaunce - MaxPac
Bourque - Pleks - ????
Rest of lines can have Eller, Desharnais, Leblanc etc.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:39 PM
  #67
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Why do I suspect the same people trying to chase Pleks out of town are the ones who did the same to Koivu?

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01-18-2012, 10:40 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
I'd think about trading Cole. His value is very high and we could hopefully package another bad contract with him. I don't mind keeping him around however as a mentor to MaxPac and others.

1. Trade, let walk, whatever (Moen, A Kost, Kaberle, Markov, Gionta).
2. Hide in minors / buyout (Gomez)
3. Draft Grigorenko or Gaunce (both can start in the NHL and be groomed as the top line center while Pleks initially takes the top line attention.

Cole - Grigorenko / Gaunce - MaxPac
Bourque - Pleks - ????
Rest of lines can have Eller, Desharnais, Leblanc etc.
No to Gaunce with a top pick. Galchenyuk, Forsberg,Girgensons...

If it's between Gaunce and the high upside Dmen, you pick the D.

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01-18-2012, 10:40 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Sell hard. Pick one of Galchenyuk or Grigorenko in the draft. We will be better next 10 years .
fixed.

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01-18-2012, 10:41 PM
  #70
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Why do I suspect the same people trying to chase Pleks out of town are the ones who did the same to Koivu?
Because they are?

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01-18-2012, 10:43 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Why do I suspect the same people trying to chase Pleks out of town are the ones who did the same to Koivu?
I don't particularly want to chase Pleks out of town, but I'd certainly entertain offers on him.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:45 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
You dont want Plekanec as an example for the players. This guy dissapears in big games and never there when you need him. Gorges is a good veteran now, Cole also. They should take example on those guys
Thomas Jagr says hi!

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01-18-2012, 10:46 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Why do I suspect the same people trying to chase Pleks out of town are the ones who did the same to Koivu?
Chasing Koivu was a blessing, the problem is that it should have been done earlier. We should have kept Ribeiro instead of Koivu back in the days.

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:48 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
I don't particularly want to chase Pleks out of town, but I'd certainly entertain offers on him.
Oh of course. Nobody on this team is untradeable. But I don't see why you'd want to actively ship our most reliable veteran with a reasonable contract because he's having a mediocre season (like everyone else)

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Old
01-18-2012, 10:50 PM
  #75
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We should all be bombarding Molson's twitter to show him that the fans would support a sell-off come deadline. The scary part is, there's 17 games until the deadline.

Knowing how things are, if we go 8w 9 L , we're going to still ''have a chance'' (ie: 1.5%) and Gauthier will shy away and keep everyone.

Or at the very worst, trade a 2nd rounder away to improve our chances

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