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Official Selling, Retooling, Rebuilding Only Thread

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Old
01-19-2012, 01:27 AM
  #126
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
as for Oilers watch the turn around inabout 2 years theyvegot slme serious young talent with moretocomd yez tbey a losing right now but when tbe young players are not injured they are muchmore entertaining than habs-- fans know the story here waiting for another blue chipperpossibly yakupov
it would be about god damn time...

- missed the PO last 5 seasons
- missed the PO 7 times in last 10 seasons
- will miss the PO again this season, for the 6th time in a row

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01-19-2012, 01:29 AM
  #127
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I think it's possible too. I really hope that's what happens because I'd rather get 1 good pick this year than to sell out and suck for multiple years even if we would get multiple high picks. I think we could also unload a few pieces (Gill, Campoli, Kost or Moen if they won't sign) for picks and then package picks to move up at the draft.
as for Oilers watch the turn around inabout 2 years theyvegot slme serious young talent with moretocomd yez tbey a losing right now but when tbe young players are not injured they are muchmore entertaining than habs-- fans know the story here waiting for another blue chipperpossibly yakupov

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01-19-2012, 01:31 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
i belive its possible habs get a top 5 pick without any purging
Think about what you're saying here. What's the point of NOT purging? We're already one of the worst teams in the league with this overpaid, declining veteran lineup.

Don't purge: continue slow decline, draft in the top 10 and drag out the rebuilding over many, many years

Purge: let young players develop, get more draft picks, draft in the top 3 and rebuild in 3-5 years with an actual chance to win the cup.

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01-19-2012, 01:39 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
it would be about god damn time...

- missed the PO last 5 seasons
- missed the PO 7 times in last 10 seasons
- will miss the PO again this season, for the 6th time in a row
I guess you would rather be like the flames who never rebuild. Missed the last two years and will miss this year. Havn't won a playoff series since the lockout. Have won a total of 3 series since 93/94.

That looks much better than what the oilers are doing? Do you want to have a close look at the flames prospect depth? LOL

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01-19-2012, 01:58 AM
  #130
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01-19-2012, 01:58 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I guess you would rather be like the flames who never rebuild. Missed the last two years and will miss this year. Havn't won a playoff series since the lockout. Have won a total of 3 series since 93/94.

That looks much better than what the oilers are doing? Do you want to have a close look at the flames prospect depth? LOL
Of course, that's the only example you could think of... but what about the Flyers, NYR, Bruins or Wings ? ?

none of them tanked... and they look just fine...



3 series since 93/94 ? are you talking about the SC finals or something else I dont remember ?



it's cool though, if you dont mind your team sucking for close to a decade I guess the Oilers are the model to follow

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01-19-2012, 02:03 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Think about what you're saying here. What's the point of NOT purging? We're already one of the worst teams in the league with this overpaid, declining veteran lineup.

Don't purge: continue slow decline, draft in the top 10 and drag out the rebuilding over many, many years

Purge: let young players develop, get more draft picks, draft in the top 3 and rebuild in 3-5 years with an actual chance to win the cup.
if you read my posts im the king of purge!!purge all day all night my middle nameis purge
but it is possible to draft high this of season without ghe purge- idont see alot of leadership on this team and organization - idont see this team beingable to going on a big winning streak

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01-19-2012, 02:16 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Of course, that's the only example you could think of... but what about the Flyers, NYR, Bruins or Wings ? ?

none of them tanked... and they look just fine...



3 series since 93/94 ? are you talking about the SC finals or something else I dont remember ?



it's cool though, if you dont mind your team sucking for close to a decade I guess the Oilers are the model to follow
Only example? How about the leafs? You are so damn desperate to get into 9th place and enjoy not getting a top five pick maybe we should follow them and trade our picks for has beens. Oh what a great idea that has turned out to be.

Flyers had excellent drafting/trades, the Wings drafting especially. How many Zetterbergs and Datsyks do you think we are going to get in the late rounds? Rangers and bruins are flash in the pan teams and could be bubble teams next season. Neither is starting a dynasty.

Yup flames have won 3 series since actually 89/90, here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Flames_seasons

Yes I said "lets suck for a decade", maybe you should work on your reading comprehension because it seems to be brutally lacking. Go back and try again.

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01-19-2012, 02:27 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Only example? How about the leafs? You are so damn desperate to get into 9th place and enjoy not getting a top five pick maybe we should follow them and trade our picks for has beens. Oh what a great idea that has turned out to be.

Flyers had excellent drafting/trades, the Wings drafting especially. How many Zetterbergs and Datsyks do you think we are going to get in the late rounds? Rangers and bruins are flash in the pan teams and could be bubble teams next season. Neither is starting a dynasty.

Yup flames have won 3 series since actually 89/90, here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Flames_seasons

Yes I said "lets suck for a decade", maybe you should work on your reading comprehension because it seems to be brutally lacking. Go back and try again.
Nope, rather be like Clb and have a top 5 every other year

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01-19-2012, 05:03 AM
  #135
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Kaberle was a calculated risk, it didn't turn the team around but it wasn't that bad a move. We lost nothing for him. Is that all the ammo you have?



I didn't say "multiple years" I said this one year. I don't believe the habs need the level of rebuilding the oilers do. One good draft could essentially give us the single prospect that could fill the position we have no hope of filling in any other way (outside of massive overpayment).

The team is done, before tonight they had a faint shot but after that I am convinced we have zero chance. We are sitting at 7th place and have a very real chance at getting a top 5 maybe top 3 pick. This is a shot at a level of player the habs have not had in years and we should take full advantage of it.

Or we could crawl up to 9th place and draft someone who will fill a 3rd line role in 4 years, whatever floats your boat.
A long term vision would be nice and it's been notoriously absent. You say we gave up nothing to get kaberle, which isn't true at all, we gave up a good any situation, minutes eater, plus we lost flexibility next year to actually improve, as you can see, Kaberle did nothing to make us better, he is unlikely to make us better over the next two years, therefore his 4.25m is thrown down the ******* with Gomez 7.3m, Markov's 5.75 ect ect. We will never improve if we have yours and Gauthier's outlook on things, getting rid of spaceks 3.8m was a good thing, we increased it by 400k for a bad player with 2 more years. Terrible cap management and long term vision.

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01-19-2012, 06:07 AM
  #136
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Count me in, this season is dead and we need a top 5 pick AND another first rounder, or at least a bunch of second rounders.
Deal Gill, Campoli, Moen, Kaberle (for a low pick, maybe a playoff team with injuries on D will take a chance on him), Weber. Gomez if possible.

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01-19-2012, 06:10 AM
  #137
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We need top 5 pick and retooling. Hopefully with new GM.

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01-19-2012, 06:12 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
A long term vision would be nice and it's been notoriously absent. You say we gave up nothing to get kaberle, which isn't true at all, we gave up a good any situation, minutes eater, plus we lost flexibility next year to actually improve, as you can see, Kaberle did nothing to make us better, he is unlikely to make us better over the next two years, therefore his 4.25m is thrown down the ******* with Gomez 7.3m, Markov's 5.75 ect ect. We will never improve if we have yours and Gauthier's outlook on things, getting rid of spaceks 3.8m was a good thing, we increased it by 400k for a bad player with 2 more years. Terrible cap management and long term vision.

I have to agree here. When he first came over the trade looked alright, he helped the pp a bit but lately hes done next to nothing. PP is still horrible but we can't put all the blame on Kaberle for that. Cunneyworths decisions on who to put out there is absolutely ridiculous. We brought Bourque in to score goals and because hes a big body yet he doesn't get used on the pp. They throw Andrei Kostitsyn out there and Gomez. Not knocking off these players as Gomez was our best player last night, but the logic is not there. He uses Gomez as a 4th line player, but then puts him out there on the pp to try to score a goal. Your fourth line is supposed to be your shut down line. Plus he's all talk about getting bigger and he wants a big player on every line yet when that pp is out there, he has kostitsyn Gomez and Plekanec.Bourque is only 2 inches bigger then Kosty but at least hes bigger. Cunneyworth in my eyes is a absolute joke. I have no idea what he was doing with the lines last night, constantly changing them. How can you get any chemistry like that. I wasn't ready to give up on the season but appearantly he has.

This is what I want to see next game, unless theres a trade made today.

Gomez-Plekanec-Bourque
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn
Darche-Nokelainen-Blunden

Subban-Gorges
Emelin-Gill
Kaberle-Diaz/Campoli

Honestly I'd rather Campoli over Diaz, but in my opinion neither one of them are any good. Also keep Weber as a scratch because he is terrible too. We really need to weave out some of these players. Starting with our D. Only 3 I want to stay that are healthy now are Subban, Gorges and Emelin.

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:21 AM
  #139
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okay, so today is the day this thread finally makes sense. I'm not on the tank wagon, but the light in the end of the tunnel is how the team will shape up following this fail of a season.

I don't think the people who gave up 10 games ago were right to do it though.

Now let's see what moves will be made. Kind of exciting actually. I still wish for my team to win every game.

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01-19-2012, 06:29 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 View Post
Nuge has 35 pts in 38 games...he'll be a 100 point scorer in this league in a couple of years with his skillset...this team won't even have a 60 point scorer this year or even close to 75 anytime in the near future ... yes team pts they don't have a lot but i mean would you have rather have Hallzy Ebs RNH or any 3 of the best canadiens players...the future olympic line for sure...those kids will be legends...will be one of most dominating lines ever if they stay together...those three are already better then any line on this team... it would have been amazing had the canadiens tanked 2008 to 2011 and this line was here...imagine the hype ...
Pretty sure the Oilers kids gets soft offensive minutes wich is what people mean by #1 center role. It's also why I'm saying if you trade Plek, you better make sure to get a guy in the Malhotra mold to take that load of the kids.

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01-19-2012, 07:14 AM
  #141
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I guess you would rather be like the flames who never rebuild. Missed the last two years and will miss this year. Havn't won a playoff series since the lockout. Have won a total of 3 series since 93/94.

That looks much better than what the oilers are doing? Do you want to have a close look at the flames prospect depth? LOL
I don't think either Alberta team is the model to follow. As much as the Oilers young players would be nice to have(Hall Eberle RNH etc) their drafting is the reason they got all those guys, they drafted too many busts in the 1990's and early 2000's(Cogliano Schremp Dubnyk Pouliot Niinimaki Jeff D-D Mikhnov Rita Henrich Riesen Devereaux Descoteaux Kelly Bonsignore).

The best thing for the franchise is to have one down year, make some changes in personnel and front office, add some young talent and rebound.

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01-19-2012, 07:24 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Think about what you're saying here. What's the point of NOT purging? We're already one of the worst teams in the league with this overpaid, declining veteran lineup.

Don't purge: continue slow decline, draft in the top 10 and drag out the rebuilding over many, many years

Purge: let young players develop, get more draft picks, draft in the top 3 and rebuild in 3-5 years with an actual chance to win the cup.
Not sure where you see a veteran lineup. Half the team is young guys 25 or under(Price Subban Weber Emelin Diaz Pacioretty DD Eller Blunden). Other than Gill and Darche we have nobody at 35 or more.

If you drag out the rebuild too long the young players that are here begin to accept losing as a fact of life, then it becaomes a difficult habit to break. Look at the Islanders, BJ's, Oilers, Thrashers etc

I think Cammy was a guy that had to go, unhappy, not that productive, high cap hit and we got good return.

I think some of the UFA's, maybe all need to go. Plus maybe a guy like Kaberle depending on Markov.

Keeping guys like Gorges, Cole, Plekanec is important to the process.

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01-19-2012, 07:25 AM
  #143
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i think the model to shoot for is the blackhawks model.

2006 - towes, 3rd overall
2007 - kane, 1st overall

previously drafted lots of d depth (which we have done)

we also have the added benefit of having an elite goalie already

the hawks missed 5 consecutive playoffs, the 5th year when they had kane and towes they were highly competitive and missed by 3 points, the next year they make it to round 3 and after that the cup. In those 5 years they went after pricey UFAs (campbell, khabibulin, lapointe) and went nowehere.. remind u of anyone?

once you have your core settled you can go out and sign the pricey ufas (i.e. the hossa's and ladd's of the world ) and then go for it.

It should not be a 5 to 6 year process with our core already mildly settled. In reality if we tank and went young for a couple of years the rebuild would take this year, next year and maybe the year after that.

We need to face reality and come to terms with the fact that we don't have Detroit Red Wings scouts who can find those scandinavian and russian gems late in the draft (midget swiss players don't count), we don't have a GM with the assets or balls to make a trade to get high value 1st round picks, and we have nothing in the system that you can label as an elite blue chip forward with size.

The only path to success is through the draft, and you can't find the star players you need by drafting 15th every year. Go through the draft years here and judge for yourself.

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01-19-2012, 07:30 AM
  #144
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Another good news is that Anaheim should be passing us in the next couple of days, they are playing great hockey lately.

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01-19-2012, 07:40 AM
  #145
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First and foremost I am a fan, and will always root for Les Glorieux to win...unfortunately, they aren't very Glorieux.

I do feel that we are in a spiral like the Flyers of a few years back. A good team, having a collectively bad year for many reasons.

But this is the time to assess and move on to what we all want....a Stanley Cup Contending team (really we want to win it, but you need to start somewhere)


We really should purge the room by the deadline of all outgoing UFAs

Kostitsyn - I would try and resign for a similar contract that he has now. keep him with Eller. But If a team is offering a 2012 1st (or a top end prospect) I'd likely take it.

Gill - could fetch us a 2nd

Moen - could easily see him get us a 2nd as well

Campoli - maybe a 3rd (at best) likely a 4th

Gomez - well, if someone traded for him, it would be a definate sign of the apocoplypse....so waive him or compliance buyout in the offseason

Kaberle - sad to say we need him for now, but if he could fetch us another 2nd and B level prospect I'd jump on that like O'Byrne on a nice purse


So now we have roster spots to fill and we may as well see what our prospects can do for an extended period. If we're going to suck...may as well do us some good while we're at it.


Call up
-Mitera (for Gill) he is on yr3 of his ELC, lets see him in action
-Leblanc (for Moen) - only if given 2nd/3rd line duties
-Palushaj (for Kostitsyn) - only if given 2nd/3rd line duties
-Henry (for Campoli) - someone needs to help defend the boys


That lineup will get us that top 5 pick
Plus we'd have at least three 2nd round picks and maybe two 3rds (which are as good as last years 2nd rounders due to the depth this year)

We can use all these assets to restock our prospect pool and draft one of Grigorenko/Galchenyuk.

Now we have that coveted big talented centreman we've been missing for years. And if that player proves to be a top end talent right away, and Eller progresses to becoming a 2nd line Centre as we hoped, then Pleks becomes expendable and we can trade him for more picks and prospects to help push us along.

Things are bad...but not that bad. This season of hell could prove to be a blessing in disguise to give us all what we have wanted since 1993....a Stanley Cup Parade downtown!

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01-19-2012, 07:51 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by mikeg View Post
i think the model to shoot for is the blackhawks model.

2006 - towes, 3rd overall
2007 - kane, 1st overall

previously drafted lots of d depth (which we have done)

we also have the added benefit of having an elite goalie already

the hawks missed 5 consecutive playoffs, the 5th year when they had kane and towes they were highly competitive and missed by 3 points, the next year they make it to round 3 and after that the cup. In those 5 years they went after pricey UFAs (campbell, khabibulin, lapointe) and went nowehere.. remind u of anyone?

once you have your core settled you can go out and sign the pricey ufas (i.e. the hossa's and ladd's of the world ) and then go for it.

It should not be a 5 to 6 year process with our core already mildly settled. In reality if we tank and went young for a couple of years the rebuild would take this year, next year and maybe the year after that.

We need to face reality and come to terms with the fact that we don't have Detroit Red Wings scouts who can find those scandinavian and russian gems late in the draft (midget swiss players don't count), we don't have a GM with the assets or balls to make a trade to get high value 1st round picks, and we have nothing in the system that you can label as an elite blue chip forward with size.

The only path to success is through the draft, and you can't find the star players you need by drafting 15th every year. Go through the draft years here and judge for yourself.
Chicago sucked for many years, I think they missed the playoffs more often than not in the 1990's.

They picked 14th in 2003, 3rd in 2004, 7th in 2005, 3rd in 2006, 1st in 2007 and 11th in 2008.

Anybody that it GM of this team next summer will make moves to spend to the cap and will want to be a playoff team next year. Any thoughts otherwise are dillusional.

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01-19-2012, 07:57 AM
  #147
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I'm all in on the "Tank" bandwagon.

The potential to nab a franchise player with a top 5 pick is salivating... paticularly, the chance to nab an elite forward like Yakupov, Grigorenko, or Galchenuck.

I disagree on a total fire sale though.

Shed the dead weight (Gomez, Kaberle ideally) and impending UFA's like Gill, Kostitsyn, and Moen but keep core vets like Pleckanec, Cole, Gorges, Gionta.

With the potential impact of a great young player who might be able to step in right away, some off-season trades or signings, and further development of our young players I see no reason why we can't be back to competing for a playoff spot next season.

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01-19-2012, 07:58 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
First and foremost I am a fan, and will always root for Les Glorieux to win...unfortunately, they aren't very Glorieux.

I do feel that we are in a spiral like the Flyers of a few years back. A good team, having a collectively bad year for many reasons.

But this is the time to assess and move on to what we all want....a Stanley Cup Contending team (really we want to win it, but you need to start somewhere)


...

Things are bad...but not that bad. This season of hell could prove to be a blessing in disguise to give us all what we have wanted since 1993....a Stanley Cup Parade downtown!
I agree in many ways.

Regarding the BELIEVE threads... Like REALITY, I find BELIEVE is a loaded term. In the context of being a fan of a franchise (esp. the Canadiens) there's stigma attached to being a "non-believer".

In some aspects, I still believe in this franchise, I'm still optimistic that we can turn things around. Just not this season... We're too far out and we don't have the horses.

I respect the "believers" that haven't yet thrown in the towel this season. However, faced with the cold numbers, IMO the best interest of the club is to sell and build on a strong base of picks, prospects and young players.

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01-19-2012, 08:08 AM
  #149
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A caller at 990 said something interesting, he said he blames Geoff Molson. He went on to say why, which I cannot remember but it made me think.....

If Geoff Molson does not do something to change the leadership and the direction the leader points the team to, then Molson is as guilty of the results as the General Manager and his staff.

And...who works for the in the Habs front office anymore? Besides Timmons... are there any others with experience and results? Doesn't this team deserve a team of hockey people with experience.

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01-19-2012, 08:11 AM
  #150
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I don't think people realize we're 2-3 losses away max from being in 2nd to last or 3rd to last. This isn't one of those "push for the playoff" moments imo. That ship has long sailed. It's one of those "get a high pick, sell off UFA and retool" moments.

Now obviously if the Habs go 10-0-0 over their next 10 my mind might change, I believe this team has underperformed vastly considering their talent and makeup, mistakes and distractions were made and it didn't help the case. However it's time for a reality check. No offense to Natey, Coldplay & co, I admire their optimism for the playoffs, I just don't see it happening. If we end up in the lottery it's going to be one hell of an exciting draft. Imagine we pick top 3 or even 1st? Holy ****, HFboards would crash if we got Grigorenko or Yakupov.

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