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01-19-2012, 10:25 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Ted Black changing his tune?
Ruff and Regier still not in jeopardy.

So no, nothing will change.

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01-19-2012, 10:26 AM
  #52
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Sounds like they're going for a roster overhaul. I was really hoping for ruff to be fired. I still think darcy is a good gm.

I personally want to see ruff fired, and roy and stafford traded. I think they're both major problems for the teams pysch. Maybe a few minor trades after that.

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01-19-2012, 10:36 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Sounds like they're going for a roster overhaul. I was really hoping for ruff to be fired. I still think darcy is a good gm.

I personally want to see ruff fired, and roy and stafford traded. I think they're both major problems for the teams pysch. Maybe a few minor trades after that.
I won't deny he has made some good moves in the past, but please give me your opinion on why you think Darcy is a good GM at this point, for this org. ? Also, without Darcy gone, I would bet Ruff will stay.

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01-19-2012, 10:50 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
In a related note, WGR currently has a poll regarding whether Ruff should be fired. Here are the two choices:

Yes. Show us whether or not these players have tuned him out.

No. This group of players needs to be overturned.

51% have chosen the "No" option. I hope that's just because you can only select one, and 51% believe certain players are a bigger part of the problem than Ruff. Still, leave it to Buffalo to choose "Fire the team" over "Fire the coach and then see what happens." This is why we're small-time.
It's the truth. We (those that want a new head coach) are still in the minority of the Buffalo fan base. Terry Pegula is one of those fans that is still, in some miraculous way, in the majority. They are those that believe he's one of the best coaches in the league, regardless of his gaffs. Regardless of the fact that his teams will fail to win 1 playoff round for the 5th consecutive year. Those people are naive. One of those people happens to own the team.

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01-19-2012, 10:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by jlr View Post
He can't even say for sure if we're buyers or sellers or a hybrid of the two at this point. Yikes.

I would think at some point, some point very soon, that's a decision someone has to make. We've got UFA's to deal if we're selling, etc.
When I hear the hybrid of buyers and sellers and maybe adding guys who can help now I don't think he necessarily means they're going to be picking up rentals. I mean I could be wrong, but I would think that would mean guys that would help us now and going forward.

If they went out and dumped guys like Boyes, Hecht, Goose, and other soon to be UFAs, and added a couple guys signed for a few years who are somewhat younger I'd be all for it. I can't think of specific guys off the top of my head, but the trade with Chicago Jame brought up is a good example of that IMO. Even though your losing Roy, Bolland can help you now while McNeill would help build for the future. Just a thought.

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01-19-2012, 10:55 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ADoubleD View Post
When I hear the hybrid of buyers and sellers and maybe adding guys who can help now I don't think he necessarily means they're going to be picking up rentals. I mean I could be wrong, but I would think that would mean guys that would help us now and going forward.

If they went out and dumped guys like Boyes, Hecht, Goose, and other soon to be UFAs, and added a couple guys signed for a few years who are somewhat younger I'd be all for it. I can't think of specific guys off the top of my head, but the trade with Chicago Jame brought up is a good example of that IMO. Even though your losing Roy, Bolland can help you now while McNeill would help build for the future. Just a thought.
Yea. There's no reason why you can't make a trade like that and have it turn out good. That's really what they should be doing. Darcy just needs to realize that he can't always fleece a guy in a deal. it may work out one time but that GM might not want to deal again if he realizes later how bad he got owned.

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01-19-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by indigoo View Post
I won't deny he has made some good moves in the past, but please give me your opinion on why you think Darcy is a good GM at this point, for this org. ? Also, without Darcy gone, I would bet Ruff will stay.
I think his best quality is drafting and recognizing talent. I highly value that quality. I also think he makes good trades. Sure, his deadline trades haven't panned out, but he never gets fleeced in a deal. Another trait I highly value.

This is his first full year with no strings attatched, and I'm not ready to pull the plug. Imo...he constructed a good team this year. He did his job, but the players and coach dropped the ball. Who wasn't excited about this roster at the start of the season? Hindsight is 20/20.

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01-19-2012, 11:08 AM
  #58
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I am consistently amazed when people write "Ryan O'Reilly is not available" or "Marcel Goc (not in this thread) is just to valuable to be moved."

Any player is available for the right price, it is simply what you are willing to pay in both compensation to the team and the player.

Folks, this is a league where, Gretzgy, Bobby Orr, Patrick Roy, Ray Bourque, Pat Lafontaine, etc have been traded, some more than once....


Anyone can be had. It all depend on the courage and conviction to do it. Buffalo has the assets to get anyone in the league, the question is do we want to empty the cupboard to get them? Are we willing to eat dollars to clear the way? Are we willing to risk failure to achieve greatness?

I don't see the first two being issues in the Pegula era. The real question is the third one. Does Regier, and by extension, Pegula have the stones to dynamite this team (and that incluides the precious prospects too) in an effort to do something transitional. If Pegula is willing to eat money and sacrifice big bits of the future, ANYONE could be had.

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01-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter View Post
I am consistently amazed when people write "Ryan O'Reilly is not available" or "Marcel Goc (not in this thread) is just to valuable to be moved."

Any player is available for the right price, it is simply what you are willing to pay in both compensation to the team and the player.

Folks, this is a league where, Gretzgy, Bobby Orr, Patrick Roy, Ray Bourque, Pat Lafontaine, etc have been traded, some more than once....


Anyone can be had. It all depend on the courage and conviction to do it. Buffalo has the assets to get anyone in the league, the question is do we want to empty the cupboard to get them? Are we willing to eat dollars to clear the way? Are we willing to risk failure to achieve greatness?

I don't see the first two being issues in the Pegula era. The real question is the third one. Does Regier, and by extension, Pegula have the stones to dynamite this team (and that incluides the precious prospects too) in an effort to do something transitional. If Pegula is willing to eat money and sacrifice big bits of the future, ANYONE could be had.
I certainly don't want to empty the cupboard to get Marcel Goc.

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01-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
Okay, this is the first time I've been legitimately feeling some excitement for this team in probably 2 months.

My one request: DON'T go the hybrid route. Half-assing it, choosing the safe ground, is why they draft 13th so damn often. Go for top 5, stockpile some picks for draft-day deals, and make a concerted effort to have a roster at least, say, 33% different as of September.
What exactly do you consider the hybrid route to be? Dumping their impending UFAs, and picking up rentals? Because I don't think that's what the team considers the "hybrid route." Guys that can help now doesn't have to mean rentals. There are plenty of young players in the NHL with potential who can help them now and in the future.

I'd rather have them make smart moves instead of dumping everyone for picks and prospects. They still have Vanek, Pominville, Ehrhoff, and a few other guys capable of helping them win now so why blow up everything?

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01-19-2012, 11:13 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Because that's what you do when you get half spun answers on everything. You analyze it.
1. Why on earth would they say things to completely and transparantly show their hand?

2. No matter what the answer is, it wil be dissected, and responded to negatively.

Leadership is keenly aware of the public thrashing they are taking. Does anyone think managment is not pissed as hell and embarassed?

I am sure they are discussing the various options before them now and what they expect to be available in the immediate future and in the long term future.

They are not going to let us know in advance. That's not how it works. Even if they intend to be sellers, they will keep it a bit close to the vest and let other teams know in their own way and it will not be via megaphone on WGR or the Bufalo News or TSN.

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01-19-2012, 11:18 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
I certainly don't want to empty the cupboard to get Marcel Goc.
Yeah, wtf who cares about Goc.

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01-19-2012, 11:19 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ADoubleD View Post
What exactly do you consider the hybrid route to be? Dumping their impending UFAs, and picking up rentals? Because I don't think that's what the team considers the "hybrid route." Guys that can help now doesn't have to mean rentals. There are plenty of young players in the NHL with potential who can help them now and in the future.

I'd rather have them make smart moves instead of dumping everyone for picks and prospects. They still have Vanek, Pominville, Ehrhoff, and a few other guys capable of helping them win now so why blow up everything?
The hybrid route at this point would basically be to change the faces in the locker room to try to win now, or at least push for the playoffs. It's illogical and would only hurt their future to do that. The team needs to face the fact that the season is basically over already and plan for next year, not futilely push for this year.

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01-19-2012, 11:22 AM
  #64
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Watching 24/7 I find myself jealous of the Flyers and Rangers. Imagine the difference it would make having Hartnell or Callahan in our top six instead of Stafford and/or Simmonds instead of Boyes in the bottom six. They need more heart and grit from top to bottom. I'm not even talking about fighting or being overly physical I'm talking about taking hits to make plays, going to the dirty areas, and doing the little things to help the team win. Things I don't see Stafford doing too often.

Instead of signing Leino in the offseason they should've gone after guys like Max Talbot and Mike Rupp. Rupp may not be the most talented player, but he's the type of guy who can help a team with good top end talent win. The Sabres need more guys like Rupp, Simmonds, Hartnell and less guys like Boyes, Stafford etc.

This is not to deny that a big part of problem is the lack of center depth and secondary scoring, but I see the lack of guys like those I mentioned above as a big part of the problem as well. Any rebuild they do should be about getting either guys who can be good offensive players now and in the future, and adding those depth guys that help teams win. One is much easier than the other. You can easily find guys like Rupp in the offseason in free agency, on the other hand guys like Hartnell, and top six centers are not so easy to come by.

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01-19-2012, 11:23 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Yeah, wtf who cares about Goc.
You miss the point, 2 years ago people in Anaheim were saying Marcel Goc is "untouchable because of his grit and faceoff potential.... seriously.

People are just silly. The Sabres could get Thornton, Tavares, Malkin, etc... IF they were willing to pay the price necessary to do so. The price might be ridiculous, but it could be done.

That is the point.

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01-19-2012, 11:23 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ADoubleD View Post
Watching 24/7 I find myself jealous of the Flyers and Rangers. Imagine the difference it would make having Hartnell or Callahan in our top six instead of Stafford and/or Simmonds instead of Boyes in the bottom six. They need more heart and grit from top to bottom. I'm not even talking about fighting or being overly physical I'm talking about taking hits to make plays, going to the dirty areas, and doing the little things to help the team win. Things I don't see Stafford doing too often.

Instead of signing Leino in the offseason they should've gone after guys like Max Talbot and Mike Rupp. Rupp may not be the most talented player, but he's the type of guy who can help a team with good top end talent win. The Sabres need more guys like Rupp, Simmonds, Hartnell and less guys like Boyes, Stafford etc.

This is not to deny that a big part of problem is the lack of center depth and secondary scoring, but I see the lack of guys like those I mentioned above as a big part of the problem as well. Any rebuild they do should be about getting either guys who can be good offensive players now and in the future, and adding those depth guys that help teams win. One is much easier than the other. You can easily find guys like Rupp in the offseason in free agency, on the other hand guys like Hartnell, and top six centers are not so easy to come by.
Mike Rupp is everything this team is not.

love that guy, he's a cup hound

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01-19-2012, 11:24 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Dale Hunter View Post
You miss the point, 2 years ago people in Anaheim were saying Marcel Goc is "untouchable because of his grit and faceoff potential.... seriously.

People are just silly. The Sabres could get Thornton, Tavares, Malkin, etc... IF they were willing to pay the price necessary to do so. The price might be ridiculous, but it could be done.

That is the point.
I wasn't missing the point, just trying to lighten the mood.

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01-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #68
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Based on what I've heard, read, interpreted.....

Good: Changes are going to be made (finally!)

Bad: It's the players fault

Ugly: We're going to get the players Lindy needs to make his "system" work.

Terminal: Another 3 years of Ruff's "system". (If they would only will play the way I want them to play, we'll be OK..... so find me some robots!)

Sorry, that's very depressing.

But at least now we all know the braintrust's mindset...... (Lindy and Darcy to hell and back)

Wrong format for this thread...... my bad

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01-19-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
The hybrid route at this point would basically be to change the faces in the locker room to try to win now, or at least push for the playoffs. It's illogical and would only hurt their future to do that. The team needs to face the fact that the season is basically over already and plan for next year, not futilely push for this year.
I just took it as that instead of selling guys purely for picks and prospects, they'll try to look at getting some young players that are already in the league.
Those players could be classified as prospects but if they are in the league already, they'd likely be kept on the Sabres, so it'd be an addition to the roster right now.

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01-19-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
The hybrid route at this point would basically be to change the faces in the locker room to try to win now, or at least push for the playoffs. It's illogical and would only hurt their future to do that. The team needs to face the fact that the season is basically over already and plan for next year, not futilely push for this year.
I guess I disagree with you about what I think the hybrid route would be. I highly doubt they're gonna move out Boyes, Hecht, or Goose and bring in other rentals to replace them in a hope it will spark the team. Moving Roy and Stafford and replacing them with guys that are on their level or close to it talent wise, but will make us a better team overall not just this year but moving forward I'm all for it. If that means we pick 11th or 12th instead of 8th or 9th I don't really care.

If your going to dump Roy, and Stafford for nothing but picks and prospects that are a few years off from helping the team then they might as well trade Vanek and Pominville too whats the point of keeping them around they're keeping us from getting a higher pick.

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01-19-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Mike Rupp is everything this team is not.

love that guy, he's a cup hound
Yeah watching that show makes me want him, Callahan, Hartnell, and Simmonds to be Sabres right now. Giroux too obviously, but he'd be alot harder to get then the others.

Seriously though I can't remember the whole situation, but in one of the first two episodes Simmonds either fought a guy or got in some altercation with him, and while in the box the two of them were yapping back and forth about going at it when their penalties were over. As soon as they both got out of the box they both dropped the gloves and started throwing punches. I just don't see a Sabres doing something like that. Hartnell is always getting his nose dirty, and is always involved in scrums and in the face of over teams. I hate playing against him, but would love him on the Sabres.

I'll take Rupp over Brad Boyes in the bottom six everyday of the week. In the last episode Kopecky sucker punched Del Zotto in front of the Rags net and Rupp didn't wait for Kopecky to agree to fight him, he just started throwing punches while Kopecky turtled. Sabres need more guys like that.

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01-19-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
Based on what I've heard, read, interpreted.....

Good: Changes are going to be made (finally!)

Bad: It's the players fault

Ugly: We're going to get the players Lindy needs to make his "system" work.

Terminal: Another 3 years of Ruff's "system". (If they would only will play the way I want them to play, we'll be OK..... so find me some robots!)

Sorry, that's very depressing.

But at least now we all know the braintrust's mindset...... (Lindy and Darcy to hell and back)

Wrong format for this thread...... my bad
Yep, it's depressing and the wrong move.

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01-19-2012, 11:40 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by ADoubleD View Post
I guess I disagree with you about what I think the hybrid route would be. I highly doubt they're gonna move out Boyes, Hecht, or Goose and bring in other rentals to replace them in a hope it will spark the team. Moving Roy and Stafford and replacing them with guys that are on their level or close to it talent wise, but will make us a better team overall not just this year but moving forward I'm all for it. If that means we pick 11th or 12th instead of 8th or 9th I don't really care.

If your going to dump Roy, and Stafford for nothing but picks and prospects that are a few years off from helping the team then they might as well trade Vanek and Pominville too whats the point of keeping them around they're keeping us from getting a higher pick.
Not replacing them with rentals, but replacing roster players with roster players instead of rebuilding. Trading for NHL ready guys would be great. Trading for 28-32 year olds...meh.

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01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by iciclesonapapershelf View Post
Not replacing them with rentals, but replacing roster players with roster players instead of rebuilding.
If those are the right roster players then I have no problem with it. Just like the discussion of spending to the cap or not spending to it. The problem isn't that Pegula gave Darcy the ability to spend to the cap its that Darcy spent that money on the wrong players such as Boyes, Leino, and Stafford. I mean if they traded Roy in a package for Getzlaf would you oppose it because he's a roster player and that wouldn't be rebuilding?

Hey why are you trading for a guy whose already a #1 center! You should be trading for picks and prospects who might someday be good players, but could end up never becoming anything!

EDIT: I apologize you added the part about NHL ready guys after I posted this.

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01-19-2012, 11:51 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ADoubleD View Post
Yeah watching that show makes me want him, Callahan, Hartnell, and Simmonds to be Sabres right now. Giroux too obviously, but he'd be alot harder to get then the others.

Seriously though I can't remember the whole situation, but in one of the first two episodes Simmonds either fought a guy or got in some altercation with him, and while in the box the two of them were yapping back and forth about going at it when their penalties were over. As soon as they both got out of the box they both dropped the gloves and started throwing punches. I just don't see a Sabres doing something like that. Hartnell is always getting his nose dirty, and is always involved in scrums and in the face of over teams. I hate playing against him, but would love him on the Sabres.

I'll take Rupp over Brad Boyes in the bottom six everyday of the week. In the last episode Kopecky sucker punched Del Zotto in front of the Rags net and Rupp didn't wait for Kopecky to agree to fight him, he just started throwing punches while Kopecky turtled. Sabres need more guys like that.
Lindy Ruff doesn't believe in those kind of qualities/attitudes/character

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