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Old
12-29-2005, 06:52 AM
  #26
pld459666
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Prucha = 2nd favorite player

I've been on the Lundqvist bandwagon for the last 3+ years when I first started tracking his dominance on the the old site for the Swedish Elite league.

Watched him come in as a rookie and split time with the then #1 goalie and have better numbers and saw as he took over the #1 spot and dominate the SEL for 2 straight seasons culminating with a SEL championship in which he had 3 straight shutouts in the finals, I believe.

That said, Petr Prucha is slowly (yeah right) inching towards being my #1a Favorite.

On January 12th, if there are any remaining, I will be getting my Prucha Jersey from Cosby's (overpaying and all)

The kid is riding a hot streak and I hope it continues all season.

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12-29-2005, 01:45 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
For years you heard "the rangers have no future second line talent!" from posters on this board.

To those fans i give you Petr Prucha. A future FIRST LINE TALENT.
That's NOT what was said.

Does anyone even bother to read each other's posts anymore? Or are we all more interested in trying to show the world our internet message board big swinging you know what's?

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Old
12-29-2005, 01:58 PM
  #28
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The Rangers already have a real bright future for the first time in a while:
Prucha, Lundqvist, Pock, Kondratiev, Koniporski, Orr, Hollweg, Moore, Tyutin, Helminen, Immonen. I really like it

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12-29-2005, 02:12 PM
  #29
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u missed Dawes, Staal and Sauer

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Old
12-29-2005, 02:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz
u missed Dawes, Staal and Sauer
All the more reason to be cheerful, but thats probably what you meant

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12-29-2005, 02:39 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272
the thing with prucha is, and again this is just me, as a person who played a lot of hockey, the thing is while youre watching the play develop, you see holes where you think one of the rangers should go to, you know, to be open for a pass, to be there to intercept a pass, etc, and its amazing, but every time you see a play that should develop a certain way, EVERY time its prucha who is where he should be, at the other end of the goal, the far side post, behind the net, at the blue line, in the lanes, at the hash marks, back checking to take the 3rd man in out of the play, its like every time, he makes the right play.
Not to sound too much like a broken record(I'll leave it alone after this), but this was exactly what Rodent wrote about going back about 2.5 years....or maybe more. Just thinking that you have to give credit where its due. The guy had it pegged. I'm sure others made the same call, I just missed their posts on Prucha. But you make a very solid point the kind just knows how to play the game and combines that with an almost second sight ability to know how the play will develop. Gretzky talked about that in his own game. Not just knowing how to follow the flow of the play...but to anticipate it.

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12-29-2005, 10:35 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
That's NOT what was said.

Does anyone even bother to read each other's posts anymore? Or are we all more interested in trying to show the world our internet message board big swinging you know what's?
This is what was said. It was said as recently as September on these boards.

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Old
12-29-2005, 11:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
This is what was said. It was said as recently as September on these boards.
Wasn't it also with the major caveat of, "THAT WE CAN SEE"? At the time, NO ONE could have predicted what we are seeing from Prucha. Except maybe Rodent, that is. Staal was just drafted and no one knew how Immonen would take to the North American game.

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Old
12-29-2005, 11:33 PM
  #34
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I don't remember any intelligent half serious poster saying anything like that.

I remember the consensus being that the top 6 talent was sparse.

Is it possible that one or two posters said it? Sure, wouldn't doubt it. With enough posters anything is going to be said at least once. But you and I both know that the overwhelming consensus around here was in agreement that the Rangers had a lot of depth forwards.

Bow what WAS said and still is, is that the Rangers lack a franchise/cornerstone forward.

The lines are getting blurred with those observations now.

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Old
12-30-2005, 12:09 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Wasn't it also with the major caveat of, "THAT WE CAN SEE"? At the time, NO ONE could have predicted what we are seeing from Prucha. Except maybe Rodent, that is. Staal was just drafted and no one knew how Immonen would take to the North American game.
not from you

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Just a difference of opinion. I am not trying to be pessimistic, but I see no one that has top line potential. And fron our handfull of potential second liners, not one does not either have warning flags or major question marks.

"And who knows about more recent picks like Cliche?"

Don't know much about him, but what I do know does not point to a 2nd line player.

"But even if I take your assessment, how many organizations have five legit top 6 prospects? "

See, that's the problem. You are calling our handfull "legit". I do not consider any of them bona-fide 2nd line prospects. They have the potential, but not one is a "legit" future 2nd liner. But to take it a step further, after missing the playoffs for the better part of a decade, shouldn't we have someone that is a "legit" 2nd liner? We are not even talking about a top-liner, just one measely "legit" second line prospect. The question should not be "how many organizations have five legit top 6 prospects?", but rather how many organizations that have spent a majority of a decade not making the playoffs have legit prospects? The answer is many more than us. Heck, even perenial Stanley Cup contenders have managed to unearth a few 2nd line players within that time, while having much worse drafting positions than the Rangers.
"especially when you realize that that is in addition to the strength at D and G, "

I will give you that, if we have anything that is considered to be "bona-fide', it is there. The Rangers have two goalies who can be considered top-notch prospects. And, while lacking in the top defensive paring departement, the farm does boast a few #3/4 defensive prospects, along with a decent amount of #5/6 defensive prospects. However, there is not a #1/2 defensive prospect in the bunch. Tyutin & Staal MAY, however.

"I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers somewhere around 1-3 in the HF rankings (for what that's worth) after the trading deadline this year."

Can't get there unless you have several "bona-fide" top two line prospects. And we have none of those.
But going by what you said in September the rebuild is already something to be excited about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I recall a time when people were absolutely giddy becuase we had Brendl, Lundmark, Malhotra, Holmquist, Kloucek, Hlavac & Devorak. And those were more highly touted than the current group. Seems one group comes through, goes out the door and the next group comes in.
Again, not trying to be overly pessimistic, but doesn't it seem like this is one vicous cycle? Prospects fail, and people get excited about the "next" group. Then that group comes and goes, and people start to buzz about the next one again. If just one or two prospects from each group were to stick, we would have something to get excited about. But it just seems like there are wholesale failures of each and every group that comes through.
Just an observation. Please do not bring up Tyutin as an example of how incredibly wrong I am about our system.
I guess with Prucha and Henrik coming out of this batch we already should be excited huh?

I guess Edge means you when he says "I don't remember any intelligent half serious poster saying anything like that."

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
With all due respect, that's not the way I see it. What we have a "gazillion" of, are 3rd/4th line prospects. I would not have an issue with our forward prospect depth, if we would lack top line talent, but have plenty of second line talent. Problem is, I do not see many future 2nd liners. What does it say that after 6 years of drafting, we still do not have just one forward in a rebuilding year (supposedly rebuilding, that is) that we can hand out hats on to be a 2nd line winger? We have 4 forwards that can be looked upon as having 2nd line potential. Balej, Lundmark, Jessiman & Korpikoski. That is hardly what I would call "gazillion second liners weak depth". Or, actually, weak is exactly the way to describe it. Dawes has the potential as well, but he has major size issues and remains to be seen if his game will translate from juniors. As of now, it remains to be seen if Balej, Lundmark or Jessiman can become 2nd line players. And the window of opportunity is closing fast.
That is why I am not encouraged by our forward "prospects". Having a lot of young minor leaguers is great, but at some point you have to judge to see if they are of true top 6 NHL forward quality or not. There are some very discouraging signs about.
I guess the rebuild is a success so far huh TB?

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...6&page=2&pp=25

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Old
12-30-2005, 02:30 AM
  #36
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We've found some very nice pieces of the puzzle this year and Lundqvist and Prucha are the nicest of them all. Even so if you're going to have someone the size of a Prucha or a Dawes on your tops lines you're going to have to balance it out with larger players that have top 2 line talent (not Orr TBBB) . For now we have Jagr. Jessiman may be a couple three years away from that or might not reach that potential. Until then our only other option is through free agency. In any case looking back in time to when our current rookie crop were all question marks it would have to increase your faith at least a little bit that the current question marks might have a few nice surprises too.


Last edited by eco's bones: 12-30-2005 at 02:32 AM. Reason: add a line.
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Old
12-30-2005, 08:03 AM
  #37
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I love Prucha...

and love the way he's developing and trying to better his game all-around. He's a great talent, for sure. Great finishing abilities. Great nose for the puck and net. Not the playmaker he was supposed to be, yet, and I'm shocked this kid couldn't get regular time in the Czech Republic - that was my biggest question mark. The next step for him would be playing against top defensemen and checkers, which is a bit different than he's used to. Then he has to do it without Jagr. He's relentless, but he needs to work on his play in traffic. He loses the puck too often (sometimes a result of not moving the puck before getting mug, which may be a result of his linemates). And while he gets right back up when he's knocked down, he's going to have to work on staying on his feet a bit more.

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Old
12-30-2005, 09:20 AM
  #38
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Isn't hindsight 20/20 great?

At the time of those posts, it did not appear that we had any legit top 6 forwards in the system. What was widly acknowledged was that even if you thought that we did have a few of those players, there were not that many to choose from. You look back upon those threads and thump yourself in the chest for being such a prognosticator, but in reality, the few players that you point to as examples were completely unknown to most of us at that time.
I do not take back my comments. At the time that they were made, Lundquist, Prucha &, to a lesser extent, Immonen were unknown. Since then, Lundquist has shown that he was worthy of the hype and Prucha has been what no one expected him to be. Immonen has shown that his game at least translates to an AHL level. Before I do sommersaults for him, I will wait to see how he does in the NHL.
I am still not backing off the comments that the Rangers organization is stocked from top to bottom with primarily bottom-2 line players and mostly #4-6 defensemen. Right now, Prucha has shown that he can be a top 2 line player. Immonen has not shown that he can be that at the NHL level and neither has Dawes. Jessiman is in the ECHL & we will not really know what we have in Korpikoski until he arrives in North America.
From the defensemen, Staal has taken major steps forward and Sauer has taken smaller steps forward. Aside from that, Baranka, Pock & Lampman have still not showed that they can be anything more than 3rd pairing defensemen. I certainly hope that they do, but they have not yet.
I can still point out that you want to give Sather credit for 6 drafts, but they have still produced only one top-6 forward, a very good goalie (who was really a Smith scouting pick), one struggling rookie defenseman and a bunch of energetic plumbers.

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Old
12-30-2005, 09:33 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
I guess the rebuild is a success so far huh TB?
I can't believe that I'm actuall getting involved with this insipid discussion, but....

1) The rebuild is a success in that the Rangers have not made a youth for vet trade. Yet.

2) Sounds like TB was right that the Rangers have a gazillion future third and fourth line guys (Moore, Hollweg, Ormeyer and Murray at the time) and, at the time, there wasn't a legit second line prospect. Now there is one, Prucha. That's one that Sather has drafted in five seasons. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. Now if you want to add Dawes and Immomen in the mix as potential top six forwards (I'm not ready to but it's fair to NOW), that's now three. Three is still not several IMO.

3) At the time of these posts, Prucha was not a bona-fide top six forward prospect.

Just my .02. Now I'm done with this discussion.

And thank you for taking this thread to a combative place.

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Old
12-30-2005, 11:08 AM
  #40
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Non-combative Prucha post.

I realize our PK is excellent, but does anyone envision Prucha on it in the future.

Smart, quick player who might get his fair share of short-handed goals.

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Old
12-30-2005, 11:18 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
Non-combative Prucha post.

I realize our PK is excellent, but does anyone envision Prucha on it in the future.

Smart, quick player who might get his fair share of short-handed goals.

Interesting thought, klingsor. The PK has been very good but what has been missing is someone who can at least plant the seed of a short handed goal in the other team's head. Either Prucha or Rucinsky can do that.

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Old
12-30-2005, 11:19 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
Non-combative Prucha post.

I realize our PK is excellent, but does anyone envision Prucha on it in the future.

Smart, quick player who might get his fair share of short-handed goals.
I think he could be very good at it. For now though, he's got to get used to the NHL schedule and build his stamina while playing regular even-strength shift and the power-play. But I can definitely see him there in the future.

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Old
12-30-2005, 12:30 PM
  #43
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As I see as possibilities for top 2 line prospects among the forwards we have---Prucha as a possibility for 1st line--a definite for second. Dawes, Immonen, Jessiman, Korpikoski, Cliche, Ryan, Olver, Dubinsky, Graham and Bahensky are potential 2nd line players which is not to say that any of them will be. Apart from Jessiman and Graham and maybe Bahensky there is not a lot of size. Apart from Dubinsky there's not a lot of grit. And Dawes is the only one so far that has proven to be a real sniper. So although there's potential I don't really see many of the above if they make it as a top 2 line forward(s) necessarily making it for us.

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Old
12-30-2005, 12:42 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones
As I see as possibilities for top 2 line prospects among the forwards we have---Prucha as a possibility for 1st line--a definite for second. Dawes, Immonen, Jessiman, Korpikoski, Cliche, Ryan, Olver, Dubinsky, Graham and Bahensky are potential 2nd line players which is not to say that any of them will be. Apart from Jessiman and Graham and maybe Bahensky there is not a lot of size. Apart from Dubinsky there's not a lot of grit. And Dawes is the only one so far that has proven to be a real sniper. So although there's potential I don't really see many of the above if they make it as a top 2 line forward(s) necessarily making it for us.
I see it much differently. Korpikoski is 6'2'' and Dubinsky is 6'1'', what are your qualifications for size?

Dawes, Korpikoski, and Cliche are gritty. I think Ryan and Olver are the two pure finesse guys, players that you would only expect to put up points and not worry about defensive contributions, physicality, etc.

Immonen, Dawes, Korpikoski, Cliche, Dubinsky, and Bahensky all play a solid two way game.

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12-30-2005, 01:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej's Dance
I see it much differently. Korpikoski is 6'2'' and Dubinsky is 6'1'', what are your qualifications for size?

Dawes, Korpikoski, and Cliche are gritty. I think Ryan and Olver are the two pure finesse guys, players that you would only expect to put up points and not worry about defensive contributions, physicality, etc.

Immonen, Dawes, Korpikoski, Cliche, Dubinsky, and Bahensky all play a solid two way game.
To me a 6'1" forward is about the norm---the norm might drop a little because of emphasis more on skating than size in the next few years but I don't think it will drop a lot. I also look at size in terms of weight the player carries. Some are just too light for their height and have problems keeping their weight up. Nedved would be an example or Giroux. To me Graham who is still very young is way too light and that's why he's struggling to put up offense in the AHL.

As far as grit goes most of these players will defend themselves as best they can but Dawes does not play with a lot of edge and I'm not sure the other 2 do either. He has a stocky body and he knows where to go to score. He's not a ***** stirrer.
Of the group Dubinsky is the only one that I can say for sure works at aggravating his opponent--that that is natural to his game.

A lot of these guys have the skills to make it on a top line. I just don't think it would be good for us if on those lines we draw from them entirely. And 1st line talent is just not there IMO. We need more size and grit from our potential top 2 line players than we have. Longer term you accomplish that with good (sometimes lucky) drafting and development. That is why despite our success so far that this should be looked at first and foremost as a rebuilding season because we don't have enough long term pieces of the puzzle. For the short term you do it with free agency.

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