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Our Centre situation for the future [ALL CENTRE DEPTH DISCUSSION]

View Poll Results: What do we do?
Draft a number one center and trade Plekanec for a key missing piece? 31 41.33%
Draft a number one center and trade Eller? 2 2.67%
Draft a number one center and trade Desharnais? 10 13.33%
Draft a number one center and shift Deshairnais to wing? 20 26.67%
Keep our existing centers and draft a winger or defenseman? 12 16.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:47 PM
  #101
Frank Doby
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I would trade Plekanec. Name me wingers (LW or RW) having good stats with this guy as a center. I would search for a bigger center, similar to Getslaf, able to play with Rene Bourque.

Lars Eller is not a solution. He has not enough offensive abilities.

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01-19-2012, 07:26 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
I would trade Plekanec. Name me wingers (LW or RW) having good stats with this guy as a center. I would search for a bigger center, similar to Getslaf, able to play with Rene Bourque.

Lars Eller is not a solution. He has not enough offensive abilities.
What team have you been watching the last few years? Cammy Gio and AK usually only produced with Plekanec.

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01-19-2012, 07:32 PM
  #103
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Cammy was not satisfied, he asked RC to play with DD.

Gio has played mainly with Gomez since his arrival.

AK never played well with Plek, better with Eller.

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01-19-2012, 07:33 PM
  #104
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I know its easier said than done, but we should go hard after Getzlaf in free agency. Do anything we can to get rid of Gomez and if we can't find any agreeable offers (us not taking back too much in salary or giving up draft picks) we send him down. That helps immensely and even allows us to look into trading Eller for help elsewhere as Leblanc would likely be ready to play on an NHL 3rd line, and let's face it, better suited than Eller to do that role.

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01-19-2012, 07:51 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
I would trade Plekanec. Name me wingers (LW or RW) having good stats with this guy as a center. I would search for a bigger center, similar to Getslaf, able to play with Rene Bourque.

Lars Eller is not a solution. He has not enough offensive abilities.
David Desharnais First AHL season 23 year old: 58 points in 77 games

Lars Eller First AHL season 20 year old: 57 points in 70 games

NO OFFENSIVE UPSIDE!!!!!!
The kid is on pace for 30 points witout PP time despite playing half his season with Mathieu Darche. He'll probably get more once Randy gets his head out of his ass and stop matching him against top lines. God people have no patience.

Also saying your looking for a big center for Bourque. Really? I don't hate Bourque but do you realise how ridiculous it sounds to say you would like an elite center for Rene ****ing Bourque. That's like me saying: We need a big stud Dman like Shea Weber to pair with Kaberle.

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01-19-2012, 08:00 PM
  #106
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DD is playing well. He is not for trade. But one small center on this team is enough.

Plek is not the same player this year. He is playing just to avoid any errors on the ice. It is not enough. We need more creativity from him, more than what he is offering presently to this team (defensive abilities on the PK).

Eller has scored 4 goals in one game. After that, he is 6 games with no goals. Offensive talent? I doubt greatly that he will be an offensive star in the future.

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01-19-2012, 08:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How is Evander Kane a ream #1 center if he doesn't play center?
Ha ha, so spaced out by the season I had forgotten LW. Nice for a first post.

Back to hibernation...why hello Scott Gomez, what are you doing sleeping in the cave?

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01-19-2012, 08:34 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
DD is playing well. He is not for trade. But one small center on this team is enough.

Plek is not the same player this year. He is playing just to avoid any errors on the ice. It is not enough. We need more creativity from him, more than what he is offering presently to this team (defensive abilities on the PK).

Eller has scored 4 goals in one game. After that, he is 6 games with no goals. Offensive talent? I doubt greatly that he will be an offensive star in the future.
DD is also 25 year old, where was he at 22? You can't give up on players like that, espescially when they ARE showing improvement. You have a couple of things to look up okay. First it's not fair to compares Eller's overall point totals since he doesn't get PP time and a 30 point production without said PP time IS good production for a 22 year old in his situation (huge defensive responsabilities, bad linemates for half the year...). Second Eller's four goal game might look like this is the only thing he's done this season since it made him double his goal production but his shooting % was low before that game (and those things tend to regress to the mean), the truth is that he is our 7th leader in shots on goal and has almost matched his shots total from last season. This is great progress.

And Eller isn't a small center. What sucks with how bad this team is with young players is that I can almost predict the future. Eller will keep getting put in situation he can't handle so it will seem like he's playing badly, everyone will want him traded. Then, they'll package him and Subban for a guy nearing 30 in a huge panic move.Then when Eller is 25 and, you know, fully DEVELLOPED, he'll be a 60-70 points big two-way center and everyone will cry about how we lost him for some overpaid underachiever. (Probably while calling another kid on the roster a bust who will then get traded and...)Then I guess it will combine everyone's favorite pastime of crying for a big center AND crying about how we never devellop players properly and then they they go on to be good somewhere else. Bonus: if you can count crying about the overpaid vet it makes an hab fan hattrick.

SK,Latendresse,D'Agostini,Grabovski... I mean haven't people learned a thing.

That's the scary thing here, this management seems to see young players like the average fan does and they really really shouldn't since the average fan doesn't even know what matchups and ES point means.

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01-19-2012, 08:39 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
I would trade Plekanec. Name me wingers (LW or RW) having good stats with this guy as a center. I would search for a bigger center, similar to Getslaf, able to play with Rene Bourque.

Lars Eller is not a solution. He has not enough offensive abilities.
Kovalev and his 84 pts say hello.

And AK plays as well with Pleks than he does with Eller

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01-19-2012, 08:41 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Cajun2083 View Post
Kovalev and his 84 pts say hello.

And AK plays as well with Pleks than he does with Eller
Don't bother defending Plek. The guy is the new Koivu.

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01-19-2012, 08:44 PM
  #111
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
David Desharnais First AHL season 23 year old: 58 points in 77 games

Lars Eller First AHL season 20 year old: 57 points in 70 games

NO OFFENSIVE UPSIDE!!!!!!
The kid is on pace for 30 points witout PP time despite playing half his season with Mathieu Darche. He'll probably get more once Randy gets his head out of his ass and stop matching him against top lines. God people have no patience.

Also saying your looking for a big center for Bourque. Really? I don't hate Bourque but do you realise how ridiculous it sounds to say you would like an elite center for Rene ****ing Bourque. That's like me saying: We need a big stud Dman like Shea Weber to pair with Kaberle.
Apparently 22 year olds are supposed to be as polished offensively as 25 year olds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Don't bother defending Plek. The guy is the new Koivu.
It's becoming parallel...

Some commenter on HIO today called Plek a floater and said we should try and trade "our floaters" for Jeff Carter. I had to register an account just to comment on that.

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01-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #112
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Apparently 22 year olds are supposed to be as polished offensively as 25 year olds.
Like I said in my earlier post, what is scary with this management is that they sometimes seem to see the players like the average fan. I mean that's the only logical explanation for the crazy high number of young players they've so easily given up on in the last few years. Seems stupid but before his big game, I was so scared he'd be the kid sacrificed for the playoffs or something. Then I thought, heh that'll scare them from trading him for a bit. But he is currently being put in such a no-win situation right now that I don't know what to think.

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01-19-2012, 08:50 PM
  #113
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I don't see center as a huge issue. Plekanec is a low end #1 or high end #2. DD on a contender would be a strong #3 who excells on special teams and in good matchups. If Eller can keep developing the next 2 years in a strong 2 way 50-70 point 1B in the Staal/Koivu mold.

It would still be nice to get a dominant young center in round 1 in June and we always have LeBlanc who could play center or RW if Eller doesn't becaome that player.

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01-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #114
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Apparently 22 year olds are supposed to be as polished offensively as 25 year olds.



It's becoming parallel...

Some commenter on HIO today called Plek a floater and said we should try and trade "our floaters" for Jeff Carter. I had to register an account just to comment on that.
Always make me laugh when people think we should send the farm for Carter because he is a big center. There is no way these people have ever watched Carter play. I mean Carter is incredibly soft for a guy his size.

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01-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #115
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I don't see center as a huge issue. Plekanec is a low end #1 or high end #2. DD on a contender would be a strong #3 who excells on special teams and in good matchups. If Eller can keep developing the next 2 years in a strong 2 way 50-70 point 1B in the Staal/Koivu mold.

It would still be nice to get a dominant young center in round 1 in June and we always have LeBlanc who could play center or RW if Eller doesn't becaome that player.
I see Eller and Leblanc playing together in the future. Leblanc on the wing, they fit really well together, Leblanc is more of a score and Eller a passer so they should compliment each other well. They had nice chemistry this year.

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01-19-2012, 09:02 PM
  #116
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I see Eller and Leblanc playing together in the future. Leblanc on the wing, they fit really well together, Leblanc is more of a score and Eller a passer so they should compliment each other well. They had nice chemistry this year.
Eller and Leblanc could eventually make a great penalty kill duo too

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01-19-2012, 09:12 PM
  #117
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Eller and Leblanc could eventually make a great penalty kill duo too
Would make a great base for the second line in about 2-3 years. Behind a Galchenyuk led first line. I think Leblanc might be ready sooner than Eller was at the same age so it would fit my timeline. He seems more polished than Eller was last year especially the beggining. Eller was really really raw but I think more upside overall.

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01-19-2012, 09:57 PM
  #118
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The Habs have been down that road before...

Turgeon
Damphousse
Koivu

Hey, let's trade one of them, and shift another one to the wing! That went well.

Koivu
Ribeiro
Plekanec

Hey, let's trade one of them, and replace another one with a free agent! That went well.

Plekanec
Desharnais
Eller

Hey, let's not trade any of them, because depth at center is a good thing. Absolutely try to get a star no. 1 center by any means possible, and let Plekanec be the two-way guy, Desharnais the one-way offensive guy and Eller the one-way defensive guy. It's not like the last two are crowding our budget anyway.

How's that for a plan?

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01-19-2012, 10:01 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
The Habs have been down that road before...

Turgeon
Damphousse
Koivu

Hey, let's trade one of them, and shift another one to the wing! That went well.

Koivu
Ribeiro
Plekanec

Hey, let's trade one of them, and replace another one with a free agent! That went well.

Plekanec
Desharnais
Eller

Hey, let's not trade any of them, because depth at center is a good thing. Absolutely try to get a star no. 1 center by any means possible, and let Plekanec be the two-way guy, Desharnais the one-way offensive guy and Eller the one-way defensive guy. It's not like the last two are crowding our budget anyway.

How's that for a plan?
It basically means that we'll have a sub-par 1st C.

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01-19-2012, 10:03 PM
  #120
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It basically means that we'll have a sub-par 1st C.
Worked for Boston.

Edit: Look at Carter's,Staal's and Getzlaf's team, all powerhouse!

C depth> C star but no depth

but

C star (Galchenyuk ) + C depth > All

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01-19-2012, 10:16 PM
  #121
Not The One
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It basically means that we'll have a sub-par 1st C.
Why?

He HAVE a sub-par 1st C right now in Plek, how are we going to upgrade by trading HIM? And both Desharnais and Eller have minimal trade value except as throw-ins (another thing that went well in the past) and also minimal impact on the budget. Obviously the salary that must be moved to upgrade the center is Gomez, and that means that Molson has to bite the bullet once and for all and send him down. We cannot hope to ice a competitive in the cap era team with his salary as an anchor.There is no other way.

This is pure fantasy, but for example imagine the team with

Getzlaf/Parise/??? (very good offensive center)
Desharnais (good offensive center with potential)
Plekanec (two way center, PK specialist)
Eller (good defensive center with upside)

To me, this could be Stanley Cup calibre. With a bit of luck, the team's retooling could be quicker than anticipated.

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01-19-2012, 10:16 PM
  #122
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Always make me laugh when people think we should send the farm for Carter because he is a big center. There is no way these people have ever watched Carter play. I mean Carter is incredibly soft for a guy his size.
Ask Philly fans about Carter. Much unloved in the city of brotherly. Last thing we need.

Most people suggest Plecks for trades because he'd get something pretty good, excellent if packaged; whereas what are you going to get now for Eller or DD? We look at the standings, look at the team, some think we are going to go back to the decade of Koivu the not-#1ctr-but-had-to-play-there-anyways. Bad times, not #11's fault but bad times.

Best situation is a great top 5 draft pick, Plecks #2, Eller vs DD competing for #3, White (?) #4. Depth at ctr + a winger who knows how to take faceoffs is great.

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01-19-2012, 10:51 PM
  #123
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Why?

He HAVE a sub-par 1st C right now in Plek, how are we going to upgrade by trading HIM? And both Desharnais and Eller have minimal trade value except as throw-ins (another thing that went well in the past) and also minimal impact on the budget. Obviously the salary that must be moved to upgrade the center is Gomez, and that means that Molson has to bite the bullet once and for all and send him down. We cannot hope to ice a competitive in the cap era team with his salary as an anchor.There is no other way.

This is pure fantasy, but for example imagine the team with

Getzlaf/Parise/??? (very good offensive center)
Desharnais (good offensive center with potential)
Plekanec (two way center, PK specialist)
Eller (good defensive center with upside)

To me, this could be Stanley Cup calibre. With a bit of luck, the team's retooling could be quicker than anticipated.
Getting Getzlaf isn't so easy and Parise will never sign here and isn't a center. That's the thing with star center, they are mostly aqquired trough the draft with top 5 picks and if we are willing to be patient we won't actually need to trade our first and Subban and Beaulieu for one. I have always hated the idea of trading for big names when you aren't close to contention because by the time the team has rebuilt said star player may not be such a star anymore.

I mean how long ago did everyone want Jokinen and he was a PPG+ player. And another thing, purely offensive players (the stars) usually reach their production peak at about +-25 year old so we are aquiring 90 pts Getzlaf but in the end we may only end up with 70 pts Getzlaf. So personnally for me, a deal for him could only make sense would be around Plekanec. Only now contenders should be shooting for any of Anaheim's big three.

And as much as I don't want him traded I am 100% sure that Eller has good value and wouldn't be considered a throw-in in a trade. Well maybe by this management, who once considered McDonagh a throw-in, but not the other team.

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01-20-2012, 12:07 AM
  #124
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We all know what Pleks can bring to the table, strong 2 way game and a guy you can send against the other teams top lines, just give him proper wingers like Gionta and cole and he will come back playing a huge role for us again.. Pleks is a strong competitor but he has to be put in a good situation to succeed, this year he had to endure Cammalleri who didnt want to play with and there was no chimestry at all between the 2 as we all know.. Trading Pleks would be a mistake unless the return is huge.. He isnt a real first center but could be a hell of second line center doing all the dirty work playing the PK and shutting down the best players in the league.. Best case scenario, we draft Grigorenko who is ready to play next season or the season after.. Then, we dont really need Desharnais anymore.. A Grigorenko Plekanec Eller center line would be amazing.. Or if you are a big DD fan, there is still the possibility to move Eller to the wing but Eller fans wont like much..

Bourque Grigorenko Kostitsyn or Radulov

Gionta Plekanec Cole

Leblanc Eller Pac

fourth line

or

Bourque Grigorenko Pac

Gio Pleks Cole

Eller DD Leblanc

fourth line

Im obviously dreaming about Grigorenko here but you have to agree thats an awesome one.. If ever my dream doesnt come true, well we are in the **** for some other years.. so trading Pleks at that point might not be a bad idea, but still we have to get a high 1st round pick or a very good prospect in return..


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01-20-2012, 12:27 AM
  #125
Et le But
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The problem with trading Pleks is it he's one of those good but not great players whose value can't be easily summed up.

I can't see us getting back a legitimately better C without adding a lot extra - think Beaulieu or Subban extra. Plekanec isn't going to get you Getzlaf by himself and even then I'm not as convinced Getzlaf would thrive in Montreal the way some are. I really believe Carter is a step sideways - he brings scoring at the expense of everything else. Carter isn't as soft as he once was but he doesn't particularly play his size and isn't someone you'd trust leading the PK, not to mention has had attitude questions in the past. I don't blame him for Columbus' situation but he clearly wasn't the answer by himself.

And a draft pick? The most desperate teams that would want Pleks are bubble teams. You would trade Plekanec for a late 1st round pick? Really the only way I can see Plekanec having value is in a player + pick swap similar trade as for Cammy - either a slightly inferior player + better draft pick or a slightly better player + a worse draft pick.

This just seems like the wrong time for such a move. There's a good chance we could draft if not Galchenyuk, a guy like Forsberg (who isn't a C but can make players around him better), Gauce (who doesn't excite me ceiing wise but brings the size and grit everyone wants) or Girgensens (a bit more of a project but with a high upside). If anything it would make a lot more sense to figure out the situation after the draft.

Of course this all assumes Gomez will be gone one way or another...there's always the possibility Pleks is moved but you guys better get used to Gomez in that instance. No way is the team betting the farm on Desharnais, Eller and a rookie next year.

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