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Holmgren on Pronger, Jagr, JVR & Betts

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Old
01-20-2012, 07:32 AM
  #26
Xegiie
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Jagr said: "I don't think it will be a problem from my side, because i'm happy. I like this team a lot, i don't wanna go somewhere else.
If it was about money i could stay in Russia and get three times more money there."
edit: ops didn't notice there is already topic about it

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01-20-2012, 07:40 AM
  #27
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I am not ready to re-sign Jagr. Season is nowhere near over.

We have 40 more games to go and we may have playoffs.

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01-20-2012, 07:42 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
I am not ready to re-sign Jagr. Season is nowhere near over.

In fact the most difficult part is about to begin.
He infact said the same, he will wait till end of season and then decide.


but from my point of view, only fool wouldn't want Jagr in his team, he still brings a lot, yes he doesn't really shy at this very moment, but so does not G, lets move him too?

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01-20-2012, 07:47 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
He infact said the same, he will wait till end of season and then decide.


but from my point of view, only fool wouldn't want Jagr in his team, he still brings a lot, yes he doesn't really shy at this very moment, but so does not G, lets move him too?
Season is going to get only harder. I did not say move him did I? I said I am not ready to re-sign him. And let's not compare importance of Jagr vs Giroux.

By the way now that we can not score a lot it's going to get really interesting.

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01-20-2012, 07:54 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Season is going to get only harder. I did not say move him did I? I said I am not ready to re-sign him. And let's not compare importance of Jagr vs Giroux.
no you didn't, but not wanting to resign= trade.
And importancee of Jagr vs G? and i can easily compare G to Jagr importance.
Only difference is G will play a lot more years than Jagr, but we are talking about 1, in words one year.

and about season getting harder, let me ask you a question, so what?
Jagr got ***loads of experience, his condition is better than most of players on team, only damn question is his groin.
If his groin will be ok, he ll play well, im not worried a tiny bit.

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01-20-2012, 09:21 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
no you didn't, but not wanting to resign= trade. And importancee of Jagr vs G? and i can easily compare G to Jagr importance.
Only difference is G will play a lot more years than Jagr, but we are talking about 1, in words one year.

and about season getting harder, let me ask you a question, so what?
Jagr got ***loads of experience, his condition is better than most of players on team, only damn question is his groin.
If his groin will be ok, he ll play well, im not worried a tiny bit.
Since when? Not wanting to sign yet to me means waiting to see how he plays over the stretch. That will be more telling towards his value then his 40 games back, no?

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01-20-2012, 09:30 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
no you didn't, but not wanting to resign= trade.
And importancee of Jagr vs G? and i can easily compare G to Jagr importance.
Only difference is G will play a lot more years than Jagr, but we are talking about 1, in words one year.

and about season getting harder, let me ask you a question, so what?
Jagr got ***loads of experience, his condition is better than most of players on team, only damn question is his groin.
If his groin will be ok, he ll play well, im not worried a tiny bit.
not wanting to re-sign him doesnt mean we'll trade him. There's no way we trade Jagr. however, I'm not 100% certain we should re-sign him yet either. like veryone else has said, we have to wait and see how her performs for the rest of the year

-if he has a solid finish to the year and plays well in the playoffs, as long as he doesnt ask for too much money, re-sign him

-if he struggles for the rest of the season, either with his play or with injuries, it wouldnt be a smart idea for us to bring him back

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01-20-2012, 09:36 AM
  #33
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well you can say exactly same about any other player,
we'll see in the end of season how he does, yet you see ppl saying i want this and that guy resign, while we talk about Jagr " we ll see how he turns out in the finish"

yes he is nearly 40 years old but i think you could see how he plays in those 40 games and as i already said his condition is better than most players in the team i would bet my shoes on this.
And again as i said only question is his groin, so if you would say we ll see if he remains healthy and then re sign, i would be ok with that, as its sad fact.

But saying we ll see how he play?. whats that kind of question, its not like he gonna lose something of Jagr ..

yes he is kinda on cold streek but again so is G, and you can't say its because of Jagr

and if you ask me, i still put Jagr way infront of voracek, Jake does well, but he is still just a shade of what Jagrr can do

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01-20-2012, 09:53 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He's been as mediocre as Carle and Meszaros honestly.

They've all been as good or as bad as they ever were.

I really think we're missing Richards and Carter down the middle.

Couturier might need some top 9 time soon.

I notice Briere's line gets pinned more than any other line on our team by the way. It's time he got moved from center.
Maybe this belongs in another thread, but if you look at teams with low goals against like NYR and St Louis vs the cap hits of their D, if is hard not to be pissed. Outside of paying for a top goalie like NYR, Coburn, Mesz and Carle make a lot of money and I don't think many of us have confidence against top competition.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:16 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
well you can say exactly same about any other player,
we'll see in the end of season how he does, yet you see ppl saying i want this and that guy resign, while we talk about Jagr " we ll see how he turns out in the finish"

yes he is nearly 40 years old but i think you could see how he plays in those 40 games and as i already said his condition is better than most players in the team i would bet my shoes on this.
And again as i said only question is his groin, so if you would say we ll see if he remains healthy and then re sign, i would be ok with that, as its sad fact.

But saying we ll see how he play?. whats that kind of question, its not like he gonna lose something of Jagr ..

yes he is kinda on cold streek but again so is G, and you can't say its because of Jagr

and if you ask me, i still put Jagr way infront of voracek, Jake does well, but he is still just a shade of what Jagrr can do
Jagr is 40 years old, has had injury issues, is one of the worst defensive forwards on the team, etc. And unlike the guys you compare him to, Jagr isn't going to get better, Jagr doesn't have untapped potential. Jagr is a 20 year veteran. He's only going to decline or stay the same from here on out.

I'm with everyone else here... if he wears down and doesn't do anything in the playoffs, there's absolutely no point in re-signing him. The NHL season is 82 games long. I love Jagr, but if he can't give us a consistently good effort for 82 games and then an even better effort in the playoffs, then I don't want him back.

And anyone who is a Flyers fan first would agree w/ that statement. If you don't have the endurance / stamina to make it 82 games and then elevate in the playoffs, then having you on the team is essentially pointless, cause you aren't going to do anything to help this team win the Stanley Cup... and that's the goal, the only thing that matters.

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01-20-2012, 10:40 AM
  #36
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COMPLETELY disagree on all accounts.
completly agree on all points..

i'd ship Carle off in a second and never look back given a chance.

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01-20-2012, 10:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
completly agree on all points..

i'd ship Carle off in a second and never look back given a chance.
The whole conversation was about COBURN... not CARLE, but at least you were close.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:53 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
well you can say exactly same about any other player,
we'll see in the end of season how he does, yet you see ppl saying i want this and that guy resign, while we talk about Jagr " we ll see how he turns out in the finish"

yes he is nearly 40 years old but i think you could see how he plays in those 40 games and as i already said his condition is better than most players in the team i would bet my shoes on this.
And again as i said only question is his groin, so if you would say we ll see if he remains healthy and then re sign, i would be ok with that, as its sad fact.

But saying we ll see how he play?. whats that kind of question, its not like he gonna lose something of Jagr ..

yes he is kinda on cold streek but again so is G, and you can't say its because of Jagr

and if you ask me, i still put Jagr way infront of voracek, Jake does well, but he is still just a shade of what Jagrr can do
Wow you gotta relax. We all know your here for Jagr, but try to think of this from the aspect of us Flyers fans. We would like to wait and see how a 40 yr old player finishes the season before we go and sign him again.

But no, I 100% disagree with you on Voracek. You go for him first. You sign a 22 yr old for the long run over a 40 yr old for 1 year.

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Old
01-20-2012, 11:09 AM
  #39
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I still find it interesting that Holmgren felt Blair Betts was fine to be waived and possibly play for another team, but when they happened they get him back they decided that his body has fallen apart despite not playing a game during this time.

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01-20-2012, 11:16 AM
  #40
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i see the point of yours, but whats point of keeping just potential players who might shine in some years, over complete players who help you NOW at this point ?

but i see no point arguing here and keep telling same thing around about Jagr, i feel he isn't going to wear down, most of you seem to count with it, but you are also forgetting he is fitness freak, i ll repeat myself last time, only thing im concerned with him, is his groin. Now i will just watch, wait, cheer and hopefully enjoy Jagr helping flyers now, theres no point to argue about it

yep i m here becauseof Jagr but i fell in love with this team, especially G is really hard to not enjoy
also i had blast watching Pronger, its sooo fk*d up that he is out of season

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01-20-2012, 11:27 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
no you didn't, but not wanting to resign= trade.
Hypothetically speaking if next year I can sign Doan, Jagr or Ruutu for the same cap hit who do you think I would go with?

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01-20-2012, 11:36 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Hypothetically speaking if next year I can sign Doan, Jagr or Ruutu for the same cap hit who do you think I would go with?
but i dont speak hypothetically, guess thats difference between us, have a nice day

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01-20-2012, 11:43 AM
  #43
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but i dont speak hypothetically, guess thats difference between us, have a nice day
i'll have one with or without your blessing.

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01-20-2012, 12:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
but i dont speak hypothetically, guess thats difference between us, have a nice day
so in other words, you know Jagr wouldnt be the first choice in that list of players...

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01-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #45
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I still find it interesting that Holmgren felt Blair Betts was fine to be waived and possibly play for another team, but when they happened they get him back they decided that his body has fallen apart despite not playing a game during this time.
It's the virus. Does different things to different people.

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01-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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I still find it interesting that Holmgren felt Blair Betts was fine to be waived and possibly play for another team, but when they happened they get him back they decided that his body has fallen apart despite not playing a game during this time.
I wonder if Betts didn't tell him he was injured. Something is up though, if he can barely stop or turn, it must be worse now than at camp.

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01-20-2012, 01:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
so in other words, you know Jagr wouldnt be the first choice in that list of players...
in other words its still the same .. i don't know who the guy prefer my choice is jagr so?

because.. Hypothetically we could have sedins instead of our 2nd line .. trade Bryz for Thomas, fire Lilja and get Chara.
Should i go on, or does it show you how relevant the hypothetically talk is?
if your not happy with Jagr then good for you...


Last edited by Xegiie: 01-20-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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01-20-2012, 06:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
in other words its still the same .. i don't know who the guy prefer my choice is jagr so?

because.. Hypothetically we could have sedins instead of our 2nd line .. trade Bryz for Thomas, fire Lilja and get Chara.
Should i go on, or does it show you how relevant the hypothetically talk is?
if your not happy with Jagr then good for you...
Doan, Ruutu, Jagr are all upcoming UFA's though, so they are reasonable hypotheticals.

Jagr is great, but at the same time we have a bit of a problem giving ice time to all of our forwards as it is now. However, who knows what will happen before the trade deadline, and in the weeks leading up to free agency? But if we have the same team as we do right now when that time comes... I'm not so sure I'd try to get Jagr back. If we could land Suter, there's most certainly not room to re-sign Jagr (unless we send someone packing, or the cap has gone way up). Even if we don't get Suter, but get one of the "lesser" dmen out there, it might be difficult to have Jagr back without giving up someone else.

JvR-Giroux-Read
Hartnell-Couturier-Brière
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Zolnierczyk-4th line center-Talbot
Rinaldo

That's a pretty solid forward group. Would Jagr make it better? Yeah, probably, but is it worth it with the loss we'd take in other areas, be it defense, future assets or what have you? That's perhaps more debatable.

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01-20-2012, 06:26 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
in other words its still the same .. i don't know who the guy prefer my choice is jagr so?

because.. Hypothetically we could have sedins instead of our 2nd line .. trade Bryz for Thomas, fire Lilja and get Chara.
Should i go on, or does it show you how relevant the hypothetically talk is?
if your not happy with Jagr then good for you...
Now you're not talking hypothetically.....you're talking crazy

why are you so defensive?

no one here is saying we're not happy with Jagr. In fact, I bet every fan has been pleased with the way Jagr has played so far. The problem is 40 games =/= the season. Now that the 2nd half of the season starts, this is where we'll need Jagr the most. If he shows us he can last the whole season, the making a decision to bring him back for another year will be easy. If he falters, then I don't see a reason to bring him back

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01-21-2012, 12:17 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
in other words its still the same .. i don't know who the guy prefer my choice is jagr so?

because.. Hypothetically we could have sedins instead of our 2nd line .. trade Bryz for Thomas, fire Lilja and get Chara.
Should i go on, or does it show you how relevant the hypothetically talk is?
if your not happy with Jagr then good for you...
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.....nobody's firin Lilja. capice? but im down for "gettin" Chara.
i like the cut of your jibb.

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