So tack on 6 years and we have the now 35 year old Matt Cullen who should come in again under 40 points this year.
On this yes you are correct few teams have elite second line centers like Kesler, but Cullen isn't even average. The bottom 10 second line centers in terms of point production in the NHL last year went like this starting at 10..
10)39 points in 71 gp
9)Cullen-39 points
8)38 points
7)37 points in 43 gp
6)37 points in 61 gp
5)36 points
4)35 points
3)32 points
2)26 points in 61 gp
1)17 points in 55 gp
Now remove from that list Filpulla at 10, Malkin at 7, and Bolland at 6 who all would have easily surpassed 39 points and that leaves Cullen in a pretty bad group.
Then digging even further out of the 16 playoff teams last year 5 had second line centers with 50 or more points. If you include Malkin, Connolly, S.Koivu, Bolland, and Laich who all would have reached 50 with a full heathly season thats 9/16 playoff teams. Of the remaining 7 playoff teams only 3 teams had second line centers who wouldn't have reached at least 45 points and that is Montreal (Gomez), Phoenix (Hanzal), and Nashville (Fisher).
Now if you look at this year and the teams currently in playoff contention only 4 have second line centers projected to come in under 50 points including us. The others are Ott with Turris, Florida with Kopecky, and Chicago with Bolland. That to me says something. Being strong down the middle is a quality of a playoff team and like it or not Matt Cullen just doesn't match up as that guy.
Saku missed 7 games last year. 7. He was not on pace for 50 points.
Malkin is not a second line center, regardless of what position he may or may not play some of the time. He's a borderline generational talent, who happens to play on a team with a bona fide generational talent.
Mike Fischer, likewise, was not a second line center. He spent the majority of the year playing in Ottawa on a line with Michalek/Foligno and Alfredsson. Likewise, in Nashville he played with Sergei Kostitsyn and Patrick Hornqvist.
Vanek-Connolly-Pominville was Buffalo's top line, again, not a second line center.
Last edited by GopherState: 01-10-2012 at 10:19 AM.
Reason: No need for the personal shots
Can anyone honestly claim Matt Cullen is a real second line center? He puts in six weeks of excellent hockey and then the rest of the season is completely invisible.
I don't care if you get 30 points in 15 games, if you get 10 points for the other 65 you aren't helping the team win.
Can anyone honestly claim Matt Cullen is a real second line center? He puts in six weeks of excellent hockey and then the rest of the season is completely invisible.
I don't care if you get 30 points in 15 games, if you get 10 points for the other 65 you aren't helping the team win.
Funny how Nashville makes the playoffs every year...
If the Wild played against cake teams like Columbus, St Louis, and Chicago were the first few years after the lockout they'd have made the playoffs every year too.
Okay, guys, stop it. I'm ****ing serious. I'm tired of this ********. What happened to the united Wild community? What happened to the spirit, the Church of Yeo, the Unicorns and all? We are so few that we must stand together, not split over minor disagreements. Whether Matt Cullen is a legit second line center or not is not something to start a forum war over, hell, it's not even worth arguing about, because opinions will always be opinions. Posting "My facts are more accurate than yours"-kind of bullcrap isn't discussing either, it's just childish.
Come on guys, we are not the Vancouver Canucks nor the Detroit Red Wings fans. Let's not fall down to their level, OK?
Problem with that is it leaves the 2nd line with no playmaker. It would have to be Wellman-Koivu-Setoguichi and Heatley-Cullen-Bouchard
valid point. The point i was trying to make but failed to do so was that i would like to see bouchard on the ice with Heatley more then just on the powerplay. regardless of what line, whether 1st or 2nd they get put on.
Okay, guys, stop it. I'm ****ing serious. I'm tired of this ********. What happened to the united Wild community? What happened to the spirit, the Church of Yeo, the Unicorns and all? We are so few that we must stand together, not split over minor disagreements. Whether Matt Cullen is a legit second line center or not is not something to start a forum war over, hell, it's not even worth arguing about, because opinions will always be opinions. Posting "My facts are more accurate than yours"-kind of bullcrap isn't discussing either, it's just childish.
Come on guys, we are not the Vancouver Canucks nor the Detroit Red Wings fans. Let's not fall down to their level, OK?
Okay, guys, stop it. I'm ****ing serious. I'm tired of this ********. What happened to the united Wild community? What happened to the spirit, the Church of Yeo, the Unicorns and all? We are so few that we must stand together, not split over minor disagreements. Whether Matt Cullen is a legit second line center or not is not something to start a forum war over, hell, it's not even worth arguing about, because opinions will always be opinions. Posting "My facts are more accurate than yours"-kind of bullcrap isn't discussing either, it's just childish.
Come on guys, we are not the Vancouver Canucks nor the Detroit Red Wings fans. Let's not fall down to their level, OK?
It's not a question of opinions being more valid than others, or facts being more accurate than others. It's a question of people posting absolutely false, inaccurate, and deceiving claims.
I can prove that [player x] on the Wild is the best to ever play the game if I ignore all those pesky facts that get in the way of me asserting my opinion as inalienable fact.
It all fell apart when the Wild fell apart. When you're winning, it's fun. When you're losing, everyone's got an opinion on what's wrong. Maybe we need goal scorers. Maybe we need more skill. Maybe we need a #1 defenseman. Maybe we need more Minnesotans. Maybe we need to just believe in Yeo, kind of like how Santa's sleigh runs on Christmas Spirit.
It all fell apart when the Wild fell apart. When you're winning, it's fun. When you're losing, everyone's got an opinion on what's wrong. Maybe we need goal scorers. Maybe we need more skill. Maybe we need a #1 defenseman. Maybe we need more Minnesotans. Maybe we need to just believe in Yeo, kind of like how Santa's sleigh runs on Christmas Spirit.
I think it's the best time to go back to our preseason beliefs: is in 2012-2013 yet? We're back to the point where playoffs would just be gravy, so what's the best option for developing our team going forward?
Scandella's return to Houston is a good start. Now's the time for Fletcher and Yeo to see if maybe McIntyre (or another callup) could play either 2C or 3C if we were to move Brodziak for picks.
How long will Scandella be back in Houston? Cuma and the other Aeros seem excited to have him back, so hopefully the support he gets from the team will turn his confidence around quickly. Should he stay down there even after his confidence returns to put more work in on his offensive side of the game, or should he come right back up when he's back on track to continue facing the better competition at the NHL level?
I'm sure Fletch won't move Heatley or Setoguchi even though they don't fit here.
In that case, move Brodziak, Zidlicky, Zanon, Schultz, Lundin, Cullen, Gillies, and one of Backstrom or Harding. I'd see about trading Backstrom for Malone. Might have to take back Roli though.
If Butch or Lats don't come back and play strong hockey down the stretch, count them out too. Trade Lats for a mid to late round pick; Butch on IR.
Bring in Bulmer, Larsson, Brodin, and Phillips. Go HARD after Parise, Suter, Carle, etc.
If we can get Parise, awesome. If not, roll with the kids. Phillips damn near made the team out of camp. Bulmer made the team out of camp. Larsson should be close too. Granlund's a shoe in. Four skilled players. Brodin should be given every opportunity to make the team. Obviously getting a high end D would be great, but I like the kids a lot more than the vets.
The team would have higher highs than this year, but I don't think it's possibly to get any lower lows.
I'm sure Fletch won't move Heatley or Setoguchi even though they don't fit here.
In that case, move Brodziak, Zidlicky, Zanon, Schultz, Lundin, Cullen, Gillies, and one of Backstrom or Harding. I'd see about trading Backstrom for Malone. Might have to take back Roli though.
If Butch or Lats don't come back and play strong hockey down the stretch, count them out too. Trade Lats for a mid to late round pick; Butch on IR.
Bring in Bulmer, Larsson, Brodin, and Phillips. Go HARD after Parise, Suter, Carle, etc.
If we can get Parise, awesome. If not, roll with the kids. Phillips damn near made the team out of camp. Bulmer made the team out of camp. Larsson should be close too. Granlund's a shoe in. Four skilled players. Brodin should be given every opportunity to make the team. Obviously getting a high end D would be great, but I like the kids a lot more than the vets.
The team would have higher highs than this year, but I don't think it's possibly to get any lower lows.
I don't think that Heatley and Setoguchi can ever work on the same line. Seto is too deferential, and can't be relied upon to be selfish when he has to.
For free agency, I think we need to be going for a Colaiacovo or Gleason. Matt Carle will be another hot free agent this summer I think. There's no way Philly can hold on to him unless they have another big sale like last summer or the cap goes up by 5+ million.
Way too tough to judge just by stats, hopefully he's regaining some confidence down there. We need him to play like he did in the beginning of the year in the worst way.
Back on topic (there's a thread for the call-ups/reassignments):
Scandella's time in Houston looks like it'll extend at least until the trade deadline now. Besides for "confidence" what do you think the front office is looking for from him before he's brought back up? Anyone know who he's getting paired with?
