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01-20-2012, 02:29 PM
  #26
Dfence033
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Tim Erixon? Two more points in eight fewer AHL games. Better than Sanguinetti across the board now, and he's three years younger.

Brendan Bell? 88 points in his last 120 AHL games. Over 100 games of NHL experience. Tougher, meaner. Actually cheaper for this season.

Bobby Sanguinetti is nothing special. If he was a throw-in, fine...but I can't understand why anyone would consider him someone worth targeting.
Wow. The reaction here is swift and punishing. You all make it sound like I'm advocating moving our first rounder for the guy. I said take a flyer on him, as in, trade a 6th-round pick, who's chances of even becoming a Bobby Sangs player as he currently is is extremely low, and see if he pans out. Using Brendan Bell as a reason for not thinking about Sangs is absolute insanity, by the way. Using a journeyman, 29 year old, AHL defenseman who's two best AHL seasons were 43 and 35 points as a reason to not pursue a 23 year old who has the same numbers in 3 AHL seasons that it took Bell 8 AHL years with 4 NHL years, a KHL year, and a Swiss league year thrown in to accomplish. Why? Because he has 100 games of NHL experience on such playoff teams as the Maple Leafs, Coyotes, and Senators?

I get it, no one here likes the guy, but NO ONE would even consider taking a chance on him at 23 years old for a 6th-round pick?

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01-20-2012, 02:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
Wow. The reaction here is swift and punishing. You all make it sound like I'm advocating moving our first rounder for the guy. I said take a flyer on him, as in, trade a 6th-round pick, who's chances of even becoming a Bobby Sangs player as he currently is is extremely low, and see if he pans out. Using Brendan Bell as a reason for not thinking about Sangs is absolute insanity, by the way. Using a journeyman, 29 year old, AHL defenseman who's two best AHL seasons were 43 and 35 points as a reason to not pursue a 23 year old who has the same numbers in 3 AHL seasons that it took Bell 8 AHL years with 4 NHL years, a KHL year, and a Swiss league year thrown in to accomplish. Why? Because he has 100 games of NHL experience on such playoff teams as the Maple Leafs, Coyotes, and Senators?

I get it, no one here likes the guy, but NO ONE would even consider taking a chance on him at 23 years old for a 6th-round pick?
What has he shown you in recent history to make you think he's worth a 6th rounder at this point? I haven't seen him play or heard anything about him so I'm simply asking why we should bring him back.

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01-20-2012, 02:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
Wow. The reaction here is swift and punishing. You all make it sound like I'm advocating moving our first rounder for the guy. I said take a flyer on him, as in, trade a 6th-round pick, who's chances of even becoming a Bobby Sangs player as he currently is is extremely low, and see if he pans out. Using Brendan Bell as a reason for not thinking about Sangs is absolute insanity, by the way. Using a journeyman, 29 year old, AHL defenseman who's two best AHL seasons were 43 and 35 points as a reason to not pursue a 23 year old who has the same numbers in 3 AHL seasons that it took Bell 8 AHL years with 4 NHL years, a KHL year, and a Swiss league year thrown in to accomplish. Why? Because he has 100 games of NHL experience on such playoff teams as the Maple Leafs, Coyotes, and Senators?

I get it, no one here likes the guy, but NO ONE would even consider taking a chance on him at 23 years old for a 6th-round pick?
I'm not saying Brendan Bell is a reason to not take a flier on Bobby Sanguinetti. Not at all. You said we have no one in the system that's capable of providing Sanguinetti's offensive potential, even at the AHL level, and I provided you two examples of how that statement is patently untrue.

I'd much rather take a flier on a forward prospect in a similar situation, since a forward is an actual area of need. I get it, you think Sanguinetti is worth a shot...well, the majority of us do not. Is that really a surprise to you?

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01-20-2012, 03:01 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'm not saying Brendan Bell is a reason to not take a flier on Bobby Sanguinetti. Not at all. You said we have no one in the system that's capable of providing Sanguinetti's offensive potential, even at the AHL level, and I provided you two examples of how that statement is patently untrue.

I'd much rather take a flier on a forward prospect in a similar situation, since a forward is an actual area of need. I get it, you think Sanguinetti is worth a shot...well, the majority of us do not. Is that really a surprise to you?

Not at all, I was about 90% certain that most response would involve some sort of disdain for the man who was selected in front of Giroux. I just don't see how the Rangers have anyone in the system who can do offensively what Sangs can. Bell is wonderful and all, but will never be an NHL-caliber puck-mover. Tim Erixon is acceptable-to-good offensively, but will likely never be a 45-55 point offensive defenseman/PPQB. Sangs is 23 years old and shown that his offense is legit through multiple years in the AHL, Jan Erixon, for all we know, is in a hot-streak offensively. Maybe even Sangs can teach our defensive prospects how to play offense. The only thing keeping him out of the NHL has been his defensive lapses with the Rangers, and a loaded offensive-defenseman system in Carolina.

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01-20-2012, 03:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
Not at all, I was about 90% certain that most response would involve some sort of disdain for the man who was selected in front of Giroux. I just don't see how the Rangers have anyone in the system who can do offensively what Sangs can. Bell is wonderful and all, but will never be an NHL-caliber puck-mover. Tim Erixon is acceptable-to-good offensively, but will likely never be a 45-55 point offensive defenseman/PPQB. Sangs is 23 years old and shown that his offense is legit through multiple years in the AHL, Jan Erixon, for all we know, is in a hot-streak offensively. Maybe even Sangs can teach our defensive prospects how to play offense. The only thing keeping him out of the NHL has been his defensive lapses with the Rangers, and a loaded offensive-defenseman system in Carolina.
Look, you seem to like the guy, and there isn't anything wrong with that. But the reality is, we are stacked on D in terms of options. He would be behind Stralman, Bickel, Erixon, Bell and maybe even Valentenko or Parlett on the depth chart. I don't see the point of actually going out and giving up anything of value for him. As a throw-in to a larger trade, fine, whatever, but he's not the type of guy you target.

Also, it's Tim Erixon, not Jan. And I think it's kinda funny you mention him maybe being on a hot streak. But don't you think it's kind of odd that despite Sangs' numbers in the AHL, he hasn't gotten a chance? Fact is, he isn't good enough defensively. I remember when we called him up briefly, Hartford fans were mystified. They said that he had been bad for most of the year.

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01-20-2012, 03:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ocarina View Post
Look, you seem to like the guy, and there isn't anything wrong with that. But the reality is, we are stacked on D in terms of options. He would be behind Stralman, Bickel, Erixon, Bell and maybe even Valentenko or Parlett on the depth chart. I don't see the point of actually going out and giving up anything of value for him. As a throw-in to a larger trade, fine, whatever, but he's not the type of guy you target.

Also, it's Tim Erixon, not Jan. And I think it's kinda funny you mention him maybe being on a hot streak. But don't you think it's kind of odd that despite his numbers in the AHL, he hasn't gotten a chance? Fact is, he isn't good enough defensively. I remember when we called him up briefly, Hartford fans were mystified. They said that he had been bad for most of the year.
I actually just realized I was using Daddy's name for him. He isn't good enough defensively YET, but he hasn't adapted to NHL ice, either. His calling card has always been his defense, not his offense. The fact that he is producing offensive is just an added plus. Again, everyone keeps bringing up "giving up something of value." How much value does a 6th-round draft-choice really have? I'm not saying he is the #1 must-get target the Rangers should be after, but if you can make a subtle move like that (McD being a throw-in to Gomez deal-esque), you can set up quite a future for yourself, and if it can be more than once for minimal-to-no cost, you do it, that's all i was saying. If it's a negligible cost, would you want the Rangers to consider getting him back? Or is the fanbase still so sour on him for being drafted over another player that it'd just be worthless to them to try? Seems to be most lean towards the latter.

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01-20-2012, 03:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
I actually just realized I was using Daddy's name for him. He isn't good enough defensively YET, but he hasn't adapted to NHL ice, either. His calling card has always been his defense, not his offense. The fact that he is producing offensive is just an added plus. Again, everyone keeps bringing up "giving up something of value." How much value does a 6th-round draft-choice really have? I'm not saying he is the #1 must-get target the Rangers should be after, but if you can make a subtle move like that (McD being a throw-in to Gomez deal-esque), you can set up quite a future for yourself, and if it can be more than once for minimal-to-no cost, you do it, that's all i was saying. If it's a negligible cost, would you want the Rangers to consider getting him back? Or is the fanbase still so sour on him for being drafted over another player that it'd just be worthless to them to try? Seems to be most lean towards the latter.
Honestly, I'd rather have that 6th rounder then Sangs, and I bet a lot of people would agree with me. I'm not really bitter at all that we "passed on him for Giroux," but the reality is, he has no value. He's 23, and he has barely progressed since turning pro. That 6th rounder, as little value as it has, is more useful to us then a d-man who has at best only been an okay AHL player.

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01-20-2012, 03:31 PM
  #33
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I don't feel disdain for Sangs. He just doesn't fit in here and his offensive game (which was always his strongest point) has regressed. I hope he still does make it somewhere but it's not a realistic scenario in New York--not with him having 1) failed in the past here but also 2) with the Rangers current lineup of young defenders and some really good prospects and journeymen with NHL experience. There's no real room for him.

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01-20-2012, 06:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
I actually just realized I was using Daddy's name for him. He isn't good enough defensively YET, but he hasn't adapted to NHL ice, either. His calling card has always been his defense, not his offense. The fact that he is producing offensive is just an added plus. Again, everyone keeps bringing up "giving up something of value." How much value does a 6th-round draft-choice really have? I'm not saying he is the #1 must-get target the Rangers should be after, but if you can make a subtle move like that (McD being a throw-in to Gomez deal-esque), you can set up quite a future for yourself, and if it can be more than once for minimal-to-no cost, you do it, that's all i was saying. If it's a negligible cost, would you want the Rangers to consider getting him back? Or is the fanbase still so sour on him for being drafted over another player that it'd just be worthless to them to try? Seems to be most lean towards the latter.
For the four years I've known of Tim Erixon, he has always been viewed as a two-way defender. The offensive capabilities he's displaying were expected, not some nice bonus.

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01-20-2012, 06:20 PM
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and Philly wanted Bobby... there was a general consensus that NYR cockblocked the Flyers on that pick. Just goes to show what a toss up these picks are outside of the lottery.

Don't we have an ALL STAR Defenseman now that walked onto this team undrafted?

Yes we do.
For lack of something better to do I decided to look in on this thread. Glad I did. That's a damn good post Numinous.

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01-20-2012, 06:26 PM
  #36
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Wow. The reaction here is swift and punishing.

I get it, no one here likes the guy, but NO ONE would even consider taking a chance on him at 23 years old for a 6th-round pick?
The reaction is warranted. Sangs will be a fringe NHLer at best. I trust a 6th round pick more given the current composition of our scouting department.

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01-21-2012, 02:43 AM
  #37
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Hank was a 7th round pick. Hagelin was a 6th round pick. We got Fasth in the 6th and alot of us are optimistic about him. I'd rather keep the pick and hope for the diamond in the rough than bring back Sangs and hope he turns it around.

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01-21-2012, 10:44 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mti79 View Post
Hank was a 7th round pick. Hagelin was a 6th round pick. We got Fasth in the 6th and alot of us are optimistic about him. I'd rather keep the pick and hope for the diamond in the rough than bring back Sangs and hope he turns it around.
Let's just get a bunch of 6th and 7th round picks and select 5 or 6 Swedes this draft. We could rebuild the team in one freaking draft!

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01-21-2012, 11:45 AM
  #39
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Only good thing about him was hearing Bill Clement and Gary Thorne pronounce his name in NHL 10

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