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#48 KINGS v. FLAMES, 1/19/’12 ... More Loser Points ... yippie ?

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01-20-2012, 02:50 PM
  #126
Kingurentai
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Originally Posted by DaAnimal View Post
Seriously guys, Penner has been playing really well and I honestly mean it. I dont know why there are so much hate for this guy.
This is HFboards. Judging based on overall performance (that may or may not include points) and being able to find sublte yet important plays a player makes is not HFboard's strongpoint.

Also people made their minds up last year when he didn't come to save the Kings. It was all his fault.

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01-20-2012, 02:54 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
He is paid to produce and he hasn't. it is simple as that. I know other players are underachieving but none or close to Penner's futility. And I don't care if he goes and scored 50 goals on another team. I want the Kings to do well and if he isn't in the equation then good riddance.
No, he is paid to play hockey. If production is all that matters, start throwing Doughty, Kopitar, and Johnson under the bus.

Fact remains that Penner is playing better hockey now and is giving his line scoring opportunities. He's also starting to be that presence in front of the net which has led to goals.

Is he overpaid? Yes. But this isn't a pass/fail system where the only standard of measurement for utility is points.

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01-20-2012, 03:07 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
I really don't care about all the negative crap some of you guys write on here, I believe in this team again. Games like last night are brutal to watch, but the Kings keep grinding away.
This is EXACTLY how I feel and what I believe. Do we need to work on a couple of things? Sure we do.
Would it be ideal to get a true speed sniper? You bet. Are there times still where we have our struggles? Absolutely but nothing so very bad that we should be freaking out over it.

We may OR may not be a legit cup contender but if you look at the way we have been playing under DS at this point I honestly believe with every bit of me that once we get into the playoffs that we have as good of a shot at winning it all as almost every other team.

Its fun to debate all of the things hockey but when it comes down to it I believe that if we stay healthy we are back to being a team to reckon with and that is a great team.

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01-20-2012, 03:08 PM
  #129
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
No, he is paid to play hockey. If production is all that matters, start throwing Doughty, Kopitar, and Johnson under the bus.

Fact remains that Penner is playing better hockey now and is giving his line scoring opportunities. He's also starting to be that presence in front of the net which has led to goals.

Is he overpaid? Yes. But this isn't a pass/fail system where the only standard of measurement for utility is points.
Ok, ignore points then. Lets measure Penner's performance based on his play. He has played like **** for the most part. Being an offensive player, production is an important metric and his pay will reflect that come July. Production isn't all that matters but there have been plenty of big stretches where Penner has played particularly bad. Kopitar et al aren't playing nearly as bad with or without points being involved in the equation but I agree, Doughty hasn't lived up to his paycheck either. Like I said before, plenty of players are underachieving on the team. It is my opinion that Penner is leading that charge.

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01-20-2012, 04:15 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
As I said above, we are winning at a.733 pace under Sutter. If even one team catches us at that pace, nevermind two, all the power to them. They clearly deserved it.
Uh. no.

8 wins in 15 games is not a .733 pace.

That doesn't even make sense if you take out the OTLs.


Last edited by RonSwanson*: 01-21-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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Old
01-20-2012, 04:42 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Uh. no.

8 wins in 15 games is not a .733 pace.
They are accumulating points at that pace and that is what matters. Don't get me wrong, I have the same apprehension about not winning games in regulation and OT for that matter but after this cluster **** of a season, I just want to see them make the playoffs and hopefully win a round. I think that is very much possible still but they have to keep plugging along. If that means they get 30 more "loser" points and get int, i don't really give a ****.

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01-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
They are accumulating points at that pace and that is what matters. Don't get me wrong, I have the same apprehension about not winning games in regulation and OT for that matter but after this cluster **** of a season, I just want to see them make the playoffs and hopefully win a round. I think that is very much possible still but they have to keep plugging along. If that means they get 30 more "loser" points and get int, i don't really give a ****.
It just seems that there are a lot of people who don't understand the difference between winning percentage and a points accumulation rate.

A team that is 8-1-6 does not have a .733 winning percentage.

Stating false info makes it seem like this team is unstoppable, when the reality is that they can barely win half their games.

To put it in perspective, the Bruins (best % in the East) have a .681 winning percentage. Detroit (best in West) has a .659 win percentage.


Last edited by RonSwanson*: 01-20-2012 at 05:27 PM.
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01-20-2012, 05:37 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I am concerned that the loser points/loser points given to other teams are going to impact our playoff positioning in a bad way. And it will, because getting home ice doesn't look like it's going to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
To be fair... the Kings play better on the road than at home.
Exactly. I hate saying it to all the HFers that fill up the Staples Center, but I want my Kings the hell away from that building come playoff time as much as possible. They've played some painful games there the last couple postseasons, and curb stomped the bad guys on their own turf. I'm more comfortable with their road mentality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
It just seems that there are a lot of people who don't understand the difference between winning percentage and a points accumulation rate.

A team that is 8-1-6 does not have a .733 winning percentage.

Stating false info makes it seem like this team is unstoppable, when the reality is that they can barely win half their games.

To put it in perspective, the Bruins (best % in the East) have a .681 winning percentage. Detroit (best in West) has a .659 win percentage.
I think you're going out of the way to bang the drum. People know what you're getting at, but they also realize that a couple of tweaks to the gimmick shootout round and we're 12-3 or something similarly crazy. A couple shootout moves separate us from potentially challenging for the conference right now. Optimistic, but at the same time not blind.

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Old
01-20-2012, 05:48 PM
  #134
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Meh... the complaints about this game are overblown. Kiprusoff made several 10 bell saves. Quick did as well. A point is a point. One more point than San Jose earned in their game. Onward and upward.

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01-20-2012, 05:51 PM
  #135
Buddy The Elf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
It just seems that there are a lot of people who don't understand the difference between winning percentage and a points accumulation rate.

A team that is 8-1-6 does not have a .733 winning percentage.

Stating false info makes it seem like this team is unstoppable, when the reality is that they can barely win half their games.

To put it in perspective, the Bruins (best % in the East) have a .681 winning percentage. Detroit (best in West) has a .659 win percentage.
I think the best way to measure a team's regular season success is by the their ROW's. That is a more accurate depiction of games teams are winning by actually playing hockey.

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01-20-2012, 06:31 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Ok, ignore points then. Lets measure Penner's performance based on his play. He has played like **** for the most part. Being an offensive player, production is an important metric and his pay will reflect that come July. Production isn't all that matters but there have been plenty of big stretches where Penner has played particularly bad. Kopitar et al aren't playing nearly as bad with or without points being involved in the equation but I agree, Doughty hasn't lived up to his paycheck either. Like I said before, plenty of players are underachieving on the team. It is my opinion that Penner is leading that charge.

i agree with you elf but you cant deny the fact that penner has been playing "BETTER" hockey than before. I guess what a few of us on this board is trying to summarize is that regardless of his production, he is a talented individual that has changed since Sutter stepped in. He's getting more opportunities but is still having problems potting into the net. But one thing for sure, he has been trying and i personally think if you have been watching the season since day 1, most of you guys will agree that Penner is playing "better" hockey than before.

As for underachievers, you're right everyone is underachieving. The only players that should be rewarded are: Scuds, Mitchell, and Quick. I might have left out some other players but when it comes to consistency and the mentality of winning: scuds, mitchell, and quick are the first three players on the list. And we can all agree that MItchell and Scuds are very underrated players and a lot of us tend to overlook that because we are all so focused on scoring goals.

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Old
01-20-2012, 06:40 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Yep, thank God for the system that has us with the best winning percentage in the entire league since Sutter came on baord.
Stop calling it a winning percentage.

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01-20-2012, 07:07 PM
  #138
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But guys!!!

Did you KNOW that if the NHL had a different point system for the standings we are only a .500 team??? What are we going to do if the NHL suddenly changes the rules this season and we don't have our loser points?? I bet we'll miss the playoffs!!!

This is crap!! I TOLD you this was going to happen!

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01-20-2012, 07:22 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
Stop calling it a winning percentage.
Okay, point percentage. Better?

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01-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #140
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Okay, point percentage. Better?
Yes it's better. And I seriously mean that, unlike the way you're saying it.

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01-21-2012, 12:28 AM
  #141
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Okay, point percentage. Better?
Much better. Thanks.

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01-21-2012, 01:03 AM
  #142
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I don't consider shoot out losses to be real losses. It's a tie with a skill competition at the end.


If we went by the pre lock out system (W=2pts, L=0pts, T=1pt), we' basically be .500 right now.

W--L--T
19-19-10 (48 points)

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01-21-2012, 05:20 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I don't consider shoot out losses to be real losses. It's a tie with a skill competition at the end.


If we went by the pre lock out system (W=2pts, L=0pts, T=1pt), we' basically be .500 right now.

W--L--T
19-19-10 (48 points)
Yea,

But if we went by another system where wins were 5 points, and Goals against subtracted a point per goals against, and shootout wins were 3 points, and overtime wins were 4 points,

We'd have 120 points right now....


Really guys, this is a pointless argument. The point structure isn't going anywhere anytime soon, the only thing that matters is POINTS in this system, unless you get to the what, 15th tie breaker?

You guys are arguing over stupid ****....

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01-21-2012, 06:24 AM
  #144
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You guys are arguing over stupid ****....
Um, isn't that the charter of hfboards, overall?

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01-21-2012, 12:35 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Meh... the complaints about this game are overblown. Kiprusoff made several 10 bell saves. Quick did as well. A point is a point. One more point than San Jose earned in their game. Onward and upward.
Thank you.


So ****ing sick of people who complain like the team is last in the league. or the refs called a 10-1 penalty ridden game against us after a loss.


shut up already. Move on, you can't win every night. Jesus. The way people act we should be 82-0-0 and probably then they would STILL complain about something.

Tip your hat to Calgary and move on.

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01-21-2012, 12:50 PM
  #146
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I don't understand how people can have such mood swings over the result of a shoot out. It's such a BS way to determine a "winner". It's little better then a coin toss. Yet whenever the kings win a shootout it's

"We totally WON that game and we're so awesome"

and when we lose a shootout its

"We are such LOSERS!!!"

It's really pathetic. Better to look at all shootout results as "ties" and hope you get your share of the loser "shootout win" point.

The point system makes no sense because of shootouts but what can you do?

I'll take a 73%+ point percentage any day.

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01-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Uh. no.

8 wins in 15 games is not a .733 pace.

That doesn't even make sense if you take out the OTLs.
Prior to the Avs game last night they were 8-1-6, which is 22 points out of a posible 30. 22 out of 30 is .733 winning percentage.

The NHL has ALWAYS based winning percentage on total points divided by maximum possible points earned. Even when they still had tied games.

We get it that you don't like counting OTL and SOL points. Get over it. The NHL uses this formula for its winning percentage and that's all that matters.

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01-22-2012, 12:07 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
It just seems that there are a lot of people who don't understand the difference between winning percentage and a points accumulation rate.

A team that is 8-1-6 does not have a .733 winning percentage.

Stating false info makes it seem like this team is unstoppable, when the reality is that they can barely win half their games.

To put it in perspective, the Bruins (best % in the East) have a .681 winning percentage. Detroit (best in West) has a .659 win percentage.
See, this is pure crap. It is NOT false information. It's information you don't like. Which is fine. But to say the Kings don't have a winning percentage of .733 in that time (15 games) is false. By the NHL standards, they do.

If you want to use strictly wins and loses, then every teams winning percentage would go down, not just LA's. 8-7 is a .533 winning percentage. Do you know where we'd be in the standings right now if that were true for the full season? The exact same spot, 7th.

You can hate the current system all you want, fine. But it is the current system, it's the only system, and we have a winning percentage of .733. That is a FACT.

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01-22-2012, 12:10 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
Stop calling it a winning percentage.
I call it what the NHL calls it. You can call it whatever helps you sleep better.

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01-22-2012, 12:14 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Thank you.


So ****ing sick of people who complain like the team is last in the league. or the refs called a 10-1 penalty ridden game against us after a loss.


shut up already. Move on, you can't win every night. Jesus. The way people act we should be 82-0-0 and probably then they would STILL complain about something.

Tip your hat to Calgary and move on.
People have their mood swings depending on winning/losing streaks, but the underlying issue is that everyone here expected a team that got closer if not completely close the gap between the elite teams and them but instead got a team that has been stagnant for 3 years.

The way people act here is because everyone knows deep down that this team IF it gets to playoffs is going to once again get bounced in the first round by a fairly superior team (ie Chicago, Detroit, SJ, Vancouver). That's the elephant in the room causing all the hysteria/mood swings or whatever you want to call it, it just gets transposed to individual games.

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