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The idiocy of the trade Subban brigade embarrasses Montreal more than Gauthier does

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Old
01-21-2012, 04:29 PM
  #51
Andy
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
So I guess Boston hiring Chiarelli with less experience than McGuire was a foolish move as well?
Chiarelli was working with a hockeyclub for 7 consecutive years with a hockey club. He didn't spend a couple of years with one and then went on a 15 year hiatus. He's had zero management positions in 15 years and wants to be a general manager without doing any time.

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01-21-2012, 04:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Chiarelli was working with a hockeyclub for 7 consecutive years with a hockey club. He didn't spend a couple of years with one and then went on a 15 year hiatus. He's had zero management positions in 15 years and wants to be a general manager without doing any time.
So being around NHL players and execs every day is an hiatus?

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01-21-2012, 04:49 PM
  #53
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No to McGuire.

Why would we do this when Bob Cole or Bob McKenzie might be available? Or did anyone even stop to consider Darren Dreger or Mike Johnson??

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01-21-2012, 04:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
So being around NHL players and execs every day is an hiatus?
So once again you don't read what I've written. He's been on a 15 year hiatus from a managment position. He's hold no position in 15 years with any team. Being around nhl players doesn't change that fact.

Also, you do realize a lot of people in hockey are around nhl players and execs every day. Gauthier is around nhl players and execs everyday, but you don't think he is a good GM. This tells me 0 about why he would be a better GM than other people being considered.

Being around nhl players and execs can be applied to a lot of people in hockey. It's so vague and tells me nothing as to why he'd be a good GM.

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01-21-2012, 04:55 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post

Hey Mitch, all that whining about Martin sure worked out. I'd rather keep getting bench minors than having the defense run around like chickens with no heads.

What was embarassing was your blind hate for Jacques Martin. I didn't like him, but at least the team had some structure.
Yes, the Martin system was highly successful. The danger when you make a change is that things don't improve. On the other hand, if you want to fool yourself into thinking that Martin was a successful coach... well go ahead. I would rather take a chance than continue with what was going on.

Remember, the atmosphere surrounding the team was much more stable when Martin was the coach and not because he was the coach. He didn't have to deal with the gong show of the language issue, the players were already playing his system and didn't have to adjust to changes and the bizarro circumstances around the Cammalleri trade have been a distraction.

Cunneyworth may not be successful but he is giving all the players a chance to prove themselves. Playing time is based on merit and when players are benched, they know why and what they have to do to get back on the ice.

But your shallow view of the events based strictly on a few short term results leads you to the conclusions that Martin was effective. You gotta do a better job than that.

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01-21-2012, 04:56 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I don't want Patrick Roy.

And being bilingual and having hockey knowledge doesn't really tell me anything. A lot of guys in hockey have excellent hockey knowledge. Hell people on this board have excellent hockey knowledge and are bilingual. Those aren't really high standards for a GM.

What has he proven? What are his experiences? He spent one year as an assistant GM with Hartford and 2 years as a pro-scout with Ottawa. That is his experience.

I'm not surprised he has been rejected by other teams. If he wants to be a GM, he needs to work his way up like others have. Having a couple of years in a management position followed by 15 years of no experience doesn't scream qualified to me.
At least you have a rebuttal & I respect that, you still haven't named your choice though?

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:00 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
So being around NHL players and execs every day is an hiatus?
Hahahhah!!! Let's put the water boy as the GM then. Let's make the trainer the Team Doctor. Hell, Andrei Markov could be Team Doctor.....he's been around them enough.

Horrible reasoning! The entertainment industry and hockey operations couldn't be more different. Pierre McGuire hasn't been around a hockey operations department in almost two decades. The business has changed significantly. Look at what happened when Melrose went behind the bench from his cozy ESPN analyst chair. Pierre McGuire is closer to a circus animal than he is a GM. He's an entertainer.

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Yes, the Martin system was highly successful. The danger when you make a change is that things don't improve. On the other hand, if you want to fool yourself into thinking that Martin was a successful coach... well go ahead. I would rather take a chance than continue with what was going on.
I didn't even like Martin, but I don't think he should have been fired at the time he was. He should have been released at the end of the year. His system was boring and fustrating at times, but it worked for the most part. We now have the complete opposite situation with Cunneyworth.

Quote:
Remember, the atmosphere surrounding the team was much more stable when Martin was the coach and not because he was the coach. He didn't have to deal with the gong show of the language issue, the players were already playing his system and didn't have to adjust to changes and the bizarro circumstances around the Cammalleri trade have been a distraction.

I can't disagree here, but Cammalleri only whined once the coaching change was made.

Quote:
Cunneyworth may not be successful but he is giving all the players a chance to prove themselves. Playing time is based on merit and when players are benched, they know why and what they have to do to get back on the ice.
Based on merit? Yah like all of a sudden Lars Eller sees his time reduced at the same moment Gomez pops back in the lineup? Where is the merit there. The team has no structure on the ice as it stands.

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But your shallow view of the events based strictly on a few short term results leads you to the conclusions that Martin was effective. You gotta do a better job than that.
Martin was effective, he had a team full of ahlers playing much better than what we've seen with Cunneyworth. Hell the team had back to back shutouts with St.Denis, Weber, Subban, Diaz and Emelin on D!

He wasn't the best coach, but he was effective. He shouldn't have been fired when he was, but in results market, he had to be. I agree that he wasn't the best coach, but he would have been okay to finish the year off with.

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
No to McGuire.

Why would we do this when Bob Cole or Bob McKenzie might be available? Or did anyone even stop to consider Darren Dreger or Mike Johnson??
Wait, not sure if serious re: McKenzie. Would that be remotely possible (if he could speak French)?

Gonna assume you just meant any rando from TSN.

Bobby Mac would be amazing and this is despite the fact that I also think management experience is important. He's the only exception for me.

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Habs23 View Post
At least you have a rebuttal & I respect that, you still haven't named your choice though?
I want someone with experience and has been in a management position for sometime. That can be anyone. I don't want anyone without experience and someone who hasn't been in a management position since 96. I aslo I don't want experiments.

I don't know who I want. I know what criteria I don't want in a GM and Mcguire fits in there. Just like Serge Savard would not fit there. Neither would Roy with 0 nhl management experience.

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
so the media does read HF.

Hey Mitch, all that whining about Martin sure worked out. I'd rather keep getting bench minors than having the defense run around like chickens with no heads.

What was embarassing was your blind hate for Jacques Martin. I didn't like him, but at least the team had some structure.

The media is what is most embarassing out of all this.
Dude, the team was playing bad with JM and they're continuing to play bad without him. Either way, JM wasn't the answer. This team needs an overhaul and a new system and a different coaching style. Outside of the playoffs, I haven't been impressed with the way the team was coached during the regular season for the past 3 yrs.

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:07 PM
  #62
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Dude, the team was playing bad with JM and they're continuing to play bad without him. Either way, JM wasn't the answer. This team needs an overhaul and a new system and a different coaching style. Outside of the playoffs, I haven't been impressed with the way the team was coached during the regular season for the past 3 yrs.
I didn't think JM was the answer. In fact I didn't even like him and I said this many many times on these boards. I just didn't think he should have been fired when he was. Two different things.

At least he had the team playing with some sort of structure.

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01-21-2012, 05:10 PM
  #63
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His exuberance brings results, but what are they?

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01-21-2012, 05:16 PM
  #64
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That sorta thinking would never hire Lacroix in Colorado, Chirelli in Boston, Shero in Pittsburgh.

Pierre McGuire seemed to have Scotty Bowman's vote. I would think Bowman knows a little more about hockey than most on this board. Not all of you just most of you.
Bowman's opinion is only valid when he's evaluating young goal tenders who we like, if not, his opinion is garbage too.

Pierre McGuire would b 100% fine. I've never listened/watched team990 in my life, so before suggesting I'm drinking koolaid, don't bother. (Not you onice)

New people is a good thing, not a bad thing, hiring old recycled garbage is not the answer. Pierre McGuire would make an excellent GM IMO.

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01-21-2012, 05:23 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I didn't even like Martin, but I don't think he should have been fired at the time he was. He should have been released at the end of the year. His system was boring and fustrating at times, but it worked for the most part. We now have the complete opposite situation with Cunneyworth.




I can't disagree here, but Cammalleri only whined once the coaching change was made.



Based on merit? Yah like all of a sudden Lars Eller sees his time reduced at the same moment Gomez pops back in the lineup? Where is the merit there. The team has no structure on the ice as it stands.



Martin was effective, he had a team full of ahlers playing much better than what we've seen with Cunneyworth. Hell the team had back to back shutouts with St.Denis, Weber, Subban, Diaz and Emelin on D!

He wasn't the best coach, but he was effective. He shouldn't have been fired when he was, but in results market, he had to be. I agree that he wasn't the best coach, but he would have been okay to finish the year off with.
I might get flamed for this, but Scott Gomez has proven 100 000 000 times more than Lars Eller. Him getting more ice time is probably a good thing if winning is the priority, I hate Gomez and his contract, but please. A full career of 50-60 points vs 2 years of less than 20 goals and 40 points, that would be the definition of merit based playing time, if the guy with a history of 50 point seasons is getting more ice time than a player who has 35 points in a year and a half, no?

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01-21-2012, 05:24 PM
  #66
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uhhhh....chill out buddy....he had 14 goals last year so i guess is shot aint a prob? take your pills watch something else if you cant handle it. pk does mistakes and its kinda normal, he plays versus the best ..nights after nights and hes -1 for the season
and near 20 pts ...and hes having a bad season..take a deep breath ...its gonna alright
14 goals last year and like 2 this year !!
Hockey is like...what have you done for me lately , not what you done in the pass!!
A trade for PK is not out of the question !!!!

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Old
01-21-2012, 05:33 PM
  #67
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http://melnickblog.blogspot.com/

Did you really copy/paste his whole article to your website? Did you ask him for permission?

---

All good:

HunterZThompson Mitch Melnick @
@Sujuicy Yes. It's run by Chris Savard. He's the guy who put my personal site together & launched it. He asked if he could link up w/me.
Just quoting this for good measure.

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01-21-2012, 05:36 PM
  #68
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The question was asked to Bowman whether or not McGuire would be a good GM...did you really expect him to throw McGuire under a bus? Someone approached him with the question, Bowman did not come out on his own will to promote Mcguire. You need to keep things in context.
There are a thousand ways to answer a question you don't want to answer but Bowman's answer was not one of them. I hear the clip a number of times and it was a ringing endorsement.

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01-21-2012, 05:42 PM
  #69
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Trading Subban would be ridiculous. He's young, talented and has a promising future. Coach him, don't trade him.

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01-21-2012, 05:49 PM
  #70
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Wait, not sure if serious re: McKenzie. Would that be remotely possible (if he could speak French)?

Gonna assume you just meant any rando from TSN.

Bobby Mac would be amazing and this is despite the fact that I also think management experience is important. He's the only exception for me.

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01-22-2012, 02:21 AM
  #71
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14 goals last year and like 2 this year !!
Hockey is like...what have you done for me lately , not what you done in the pass!!
A trade for PK is not out of the question !!!!
Aaaand next year he could have 25. Are you suggesting PK is in his decline after a little more than 2 seasons played? I guess that's about right for a defenceman his age.

Why are we even bothering to trade the pieces we're trying to surround? Trust me, PK is da bomb. Seriously, just trust me. In two years I'll re-post and eat the opposite of crow.

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01-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #72
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Subban is 22 years old and is expected to perform like he's a 30 year old veteran allstar defencemen!!!! High expectations is the biggest joke surrounding the Habs. Fans expecting unimaginable things and not willing to wait for it to happen....thats the biggest joke around this team right now!! The french media freaking out because we have an english coach.....crap like that is what makes the Habs a laughing stock around the league.

Maybe is fans and media realize that nothing happens overnight and that young players need time to grow their talents....then maybe the Habs would be fine. Subban isn't Sidney Crosby. Subban isn't going to be perfect every night he plays because he's only 22 and has a LOT to learn about the NHL and the game.

I'm more than willing to be patient and wait for Subban to get there than to jump and trade him because a few idiot fans are pissed that he takes stupid penalties once in a while of gives the puck away.

I see a 22 year old kid expected to play 25+ minutes a game against established stars in the league....and the fact that he's around 0 +/- tells me that Subban is going to be an elite defencemen someday and that its going to take a few seasons and a few bumps along the road before he's that elite defencemen.

Players don't automatically turn into a superstar in their first season or 2 in the NHL.....98% of them take 4-5 years to be any good at all.

If stupid, impatient fans and media aren't willing to sit back and wait for things to get better....then they aren't true hockey fans and don't belong near the Habs. Putting massive expectations on young players who aren't completely developed yet is the most foolish thing I have ever seen or heard of. Everybody wants their favorite team to win and be a cup contending team....but you have to be patient and wait for it.

The Penguins had to tank for several years to become the powerhouse they are today. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to see the Habs tank EVER!!! I'd rather be patient and see them build the team slowly and progress slowly and become a powerhouse over time, while competing for the playoffs every season instead of tanking and finishing dead last for 3 or 4 seasons to milk the draft and then wait another 3-4 seasons while the drafted players turn into NHLer's. Making a trade here and there, gaining prospect, roster players and draft picks along the way, while still competing is much better than finishing dead last in the league....no matter what!!

People need to relax and let things progress naturally with our players. Support them along the way and one day....the loyal, patient fans will be rewarded.

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Old
01-22-2012, 05:23 PM
  #73
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OP - it is pretty idiotic, correct.. but pretty much par for the course don't you think? Great player can't make it in Montreal for a season or two so medai and over reaction calls for his head, we trade him and he's put on a team that can support him and he shines.. exactly what would happen with PK.. plus he's a work horse.. who we going to put on for 27 mins a game.. Gil? and watch him have a heart attack? lol

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01-22-2012, 07:02 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
Subban is 22 years old and is expected to perform like he's a 30 year old veteran allstar defencemen!!!! High expectations is the biggest joke surrounding the Habs. Fans expecting unimaginable things and not willing to wait for it to happen....thats the biggest joke around this team right now!! The french media freaking out because we have an english coach.....crap like that is what makes the Habs a laughing stock around the league.

Maybe is fans and media realize that nothing happens overnight and that young players need time to grow their talents....then maybe the Habs would be fine. Subban isn't Sidney Crosby. Subban isn't going to be perfect every night he plays because he's only 22 and has a LOT to learn about the NHL and the game.

I'm more than willing to be patient and wait for Subban to get there than to jump and trade him because a few idiot fans are pissed that he takes stupid penalties once in a while of gives the puck away.

I see a 22 year old kid expected to play 25+ minutes a game against established stars in the league....and the fact that he's around 0 +/- tells me that Subban is going to be an elite defencemen someday and that its going to take a few seasons and a few bumps along the road before he's that elite defencemen.

Players don't automatically turn into a superstar in their first season or 2 in the NHL.....98% of them take 4-5 years to be any good at all.

If stupid, impatient fans and media aren't willing to sit back and wait for things to get better....then they aren't true hockey fans and don't belong near the Habs. Putting massive expectations on young players who aren't completely developed yet is the most foolish thing I have ever seen or heard of. Everybody wants their favorite team to win and be a cup contending team....but you have to be patient and wait for it.

The Penguins had to tank for several years to become the powerhouse they are today. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to see the Habs tank EVER!!! I'd rather be patient and see them build the team slowly and progress slowly and become a powerhouse over time, while competing for the playoffs every season instead of tanking and finishing dead last for 3 or 4 seasons to milk the draft and then wait another 3-4 seasons while the drafted players turn into NHLer's. Making a trade here and there, gaining prospect, roster players and draft picks along the way, while still competing is much better than finishing dead last in the league....no matter what!!

People need to relax and let things progress naturally with our players. Support them along the way and one day....the loyal, patient fans will be rewarded.
nice.

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01-22-2012, 08:10 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
14 goals last year and like 2 this year !!
Hockey is like...what have you done for me lately , not what you done in the pass!!
A trade for PK is not out of the question !!!!
Hockey is mostly ''what can you do for me?'', which includes the future, and what a player has done in the past is a pretty good indication of what he could do, and more. Especially when we're talking about a 22 year old player. *facepalm*

Do you live in some sort of fantasy world where all teams trade all their players who have a drop in production?

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