HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Clarke MacArthur - slump or a one-off season?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-22-2012, 08:38 AM
  #26
Baba Ganoush
Registered User
 
Baba Ganoush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,499
vCash: 500
Kulemin and Mac are not comparable at all.

Kulemin is a great hockey player, and VERY useful even when he's not putting up points and struggling offensively.

Mac however needs to provide offense to be useful.

huge difference.

Baba Ganoush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 08:40 AM
  #27
Pierre Gotye
Registered User
 
Pierre Gotye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: McKinney, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,014
vCash: 500
MacArthur has a reputation for playing really well the first half of the season then fizzling and cooling off during the second half.

He has a problem with consistency.

Really, even though he's signed through next, year his 3.25 contract is an overpayment. I'd feel more comfortable with giving him $2.

But, I don't think Burke sees Clarke as part of the long-term outlook for the Leafs.

In the top 6, he's probably the only winger who needs to be removed to get bigger or give Nazzy more ice time.

Pierre Gotye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 08:58 AM
  #28
Leafmon1
Registered User
 
Leafmon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Massena, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 663
vCash: 500
Not getting into the Kulie debate - different thread and I will give him a pass though it is painful to watch. Mac just plain sucks arse this year. I don't get it, but he better get it together soon and hit the damn net for cryin' out loud. I remember him as a bit of a sniper last year. Wilson should park Dion, Mac, Lombo, etc in front of the net and make them practice their shots from different angles until their arms dangle at their sides. Wasted opportunities in a game where you have to capitalize on the chances you get are killing this team.

Leafmon1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 09:23 AM
  #29
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,886
vCash: 500
Last year Mach had 21 goals and 41 assists.
This year he has 12 goals and 9 assists.

His goal production is on pace BUT his assist production is down. Why?
Well last year guys like Kulemin and grabovski score more.
This year guys like Kulemin, Frattin and other linemates are not scoring.

Actually his greater offensive value is as an assist generator, but Kule, Frattin (who he was lined up) etc have had problem all year with finish.

You might argue his passing quality is down, or he is more selfish this year, or he can't find a way to make his teammates succeed (all which I disagree with) but he is not slumping measured by goal production.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 09:32 AM
  #30
Erdinger
Registered User
 
Erdinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Last year Mach had 21 goals and 41 assists.
This year he has 12 goals and 9 assists.

His goal production is on pace BUT his assist production is down. Why?
Well last year guys like Kulemin and grabovski score more.
This year guys like Kulemin, Frattin and other linemates are not scoring.

Actually his greater offensive value is as an assist generator, but Kule, Frattin (who he was lined up) etc have had problem all year with finish.

You might argue his passing quality is down, or he is more selfish this year, or he can't find a way to make his teammates succeed (all which I disagree with) but he is not slumping measured by goal production.
I'm more concerned about his don't give a **** lazy penalties in the other team's end.

Erdinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 09:48 AM
  #31
AlMo
Registered User
 
AlMo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto
Country: Portugal
Posts: 9,308
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
When Clarke MacArthur signed on with the Maple Leafs in the off-season, I think most of us were very happy with securing him down.

He was just coming off of a great year - one that not only did he beat his career highs, but he crushed them.

This year - he's struggled. Now I know he's still on pace for a good goal return, but what he's on pace for, and what he's actually going to get, are two very different things. He doesn't look right now, like he's a player capable of getting more than 20 goals (he's on 12 right now).

So my question is simple:

Is Clarke MacArthur simply suffering a similar sort of slump that the likes of Nikolai Kulemin is? Is the player that we saw last year the real Clarke? Most people believe Kulemin is exponentially better than what we've seen this year (me included).

Or was last year just a one-off year where everything went right for Mac, and this is more in-line with what the real-Clarke is?
Mac is a one season wonder imo. I think many got a little carried away with Mac's production last season. If Mac scores you 20 goals, consider it good production. 15g-35points is about where he is. Now that he makes over 3 million a season, he will be more difficult to move. Mac isn't a bad player, but his contract will demand more than what eh can give you.

AlMo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 09:50 AM
  #32
Sergei Berezin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 6,099
vCash: 500
People just need another whipping boy... that's what it comes down.

Just gets more ridiculous with each person.


Hey, you know what... lets rip on Kessel now too! What has he done for me lately?!

Sergei Berezin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 09:55 AM
  #33
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin View Post
People just need another whipping boy... that's what it comes down.

Just gets more ridiculous with each person.


Hey, you know what... lets rip on Kessel now too! What has he done for me lately?!
My first issue with MacArthur were actually brought up during the 4 game winning streak; I mentioned it both here and on twitter. Can hardly call that a situation where I'm trying to scapegoat a player or turn him into a whipping boy.

If you follow my posts around here, you know I'm not that type of poster.

But on the question of what Clarke has done for me lately - not enough. Especially considering the expectations on his shoulders, and what we've seen him do last year.

Don't call this thread frivolous without understanding what's going on first. I know that involves you reading and comprehending a number of posts through the use of logic, which admittedly could b tough for some, but give it a shot.

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 09:58 AM
  #34
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,785
vCash: 500
Back on topic - Can't remember where I heard it (whether it was Sportsnet or Satellite Hotstove on CBC), but I recall it being mentioned or implied that teams were inquiring to the Maple Leafs about the availability of Mac? If there is interest left, and Burke cannot package to get a big deal done, and it's determined that this guy is a one-season wonder, do you move him?

On the surface - a 26 year old, 60+ point potential guy is certainly worth keeping but on that cap hit and the lack of production, added along with the fact that we need to save some salary heading into this off-season, is Clarke not the perfect and logical choice to be traded away from this team?

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #35
Erdinger
Registered User
 
Erdinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Back on topic - Can't remember where I heard it (whether it was Sportsnet or Satellite Hotstove on CBC), but I recall it being mentioned or implied that teams were inquiring to the Maple Leafs about the availability of Mac? If there is interest left, and Burke cannot package to get a big deal done, and it's determined that this guy is a one-season wonder, do you move him?

On the surface - a 26 year old, 60+ point potential guy is certainly worth keeping but on that cap hit and the lack of production, added along with the fact that we need to save some salary heading into this off-season, is Clarke not the perfect and logical choice to be traded away from this team?
Yes he is worth trading just to get rid of the cap hit. Of course he'll have a big year next season wherever he goes (contract year and all).

Erdinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:10 AM
  #36
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 28,253
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALDAL View Post
When you are making ****ing millions of dollars a year you better ****ing show up like what the ****... Kulemin play hockey or retire you scrub we could of had Mike Richards for you but burke did not want you in that deal u *****
Do you think these players value hockey over their family/friends?

Your over exadurating... Just give it up

Next season Kule will do good and everyone will be like "OMG THANK GOD WE DIDN'T TRADE KULE FOR RICHARDS"

Phion Keneuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:15 AM
  #37
Mansfield
possession obsession
 
Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Do you think these players value hockey over their family/friends?

Your over exadurating... Just give it up

Next season Kule will do good and everyone will be like "OMG THANK GOD WE DIDN'T TRADE KULE FOR RICHARDS"
lol yeah this. ****ing bipolar fanbase

Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:17 AM
  #38
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
When Clarke MacArthur signed on with the Maple Leafs in the off-season, I think most of us were very happy with securing him down.

He was just coming off of a great year - one that not only did he beat his career highs, but he crushed them.

This year - he's struggled. Now I know he's still on pace for a good goal return, but what he's on pace for, and what he's actually going to get, are two very different things. He doesn't look right now, like he's a player capable of getting more than 20 goals (he's on 12 right now).

So my question is simple:

Is Clarke MacArthur simply suffering a similar sort of slump that the likes of Nikolai Kulemin is? Is the player that we saw last year the real Clarke? Most people believe Kulemin is exponentially better than what we've seen this year (me included).

Or was last year just a one-off year where everything went right for Mac, and this is more in-line with what the real-Clarke is?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if last year were career years for all three of MacArthur, Grabovski and Kulemin....They had a brilliant year where everything clicked for them and they were a dominant line. I don't think any of the three players are as good singularly and this year not as good collectively.....nor may they never be as good collectively again. I think Grabovski has the potential to hit 60 points again but MacArthur I think is pretty much a 20 goal guy and maybe 50 pts...Kulemin is a mystery....but he should be able to put up similiar numbers to MacA with a much better defensive game. I'd trade any of the 3 players in a package deal for a powerforward or centerman without hesitation.

hockeyfanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:29 AM
  #39
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,080
vCash: 500
Kulemin is going to be a player for us, you can see it the way he works and the flashes of what we saw last year, while MacArthur just doesn't give a rats ass.

Stephen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 01:30 PM
  #40
Center Ice Scrum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The World Wide Web
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,397
vCash: 500
Kulemin is by far the hardest working player on the team. He's the best conditioned guy on the team. He puts in the most effort during games and practices. Last one off the ice, first one to acknowledge his linemates any of his successes. One of the most modest russian guys in the NHL. You give guys like that a break. Just because he doesn't put up the points at last years pace or better doesn't mean you crucify them for it because on the flip side he does all the other 99% of his duties on the ice. And he does those things extremely well.

I truely believe this is just an off year for him mostly because of the tragedies in his life. He lost his mentor and for any of you who have actually had the privilege of having a mentor you know that the loss hurts you personally to a great extent. Look up the definition of mentor if you don't know. This is the person you go to for life advice and experiences on how to deal with things, this is the person you go to during your **** times. When that OUTLET isn't there, you tend to build up a lot of negative emotions mostly because you aren't comfortable sulking about **** in front of just anybody.

Sometimes life gives you a break and other times it just buries you. For the weaklings on HF boards that haven't experienced any close tragedies, I would suggest you don't post **** about Kulemin because if your father or father figure died in a fluke accident, I'm sure me giving you 10 million dollars won't make you get over it any faster. You don't only make your self look bad as a person but you come off as a **** human being when you attempt to justify emotions with money. In reality, people like you are the real tragedies of life.

Grabo and Kule and even Lupul are heart and soul players. You don't get that easily. Skill is easily replaced but that drive to succeed and compete is worth more to Brian Burke and to any person with any knowledge of life. Now that's not to say that you don't need skilled players but when all the chips are down, the skill pretty much evens out, its the determination and hunger to win that gets you over the hump.

Look at Canucks last year, all the skill and talent in the world, but Boston players were committed to PLAYING hockey and doing everything it takes to win, while Nucks' were too busy whining and *****ing to the Refs for penalties and putting on a show in the media. Hockey Gods don't give out **** for free. Gotta earn it. Players like Grabo, Kule and Lupul truly earn it, they don't get free rides on reputation.

Center Ice Scrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 01:35 PM
  #41
Doshy
Registered User
 
Doshy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,872
vCash: 500
If / when we make the playoffs, Kulemin will be an important player.

Doshy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 02:01 PM
  #42
Sergei Berezin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 6,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
My first issue with MacArthur were actually brought up during the 4 game winning streak; I mentioned it both here and on twitter. Can hardly call that a situation where I'm trying to scapegoat a player or turn him into a whipping boy.

If you follow my posts around here, you know I'm not that type of poster.

But on the question of what Clarke has done for me lately - not enough. Especially considering the expectations on his shoulders, and what we've seen him do last year.

Don't call this thread frivolous without understanding what's going on first. I know that involves you reading and comprehending a number of posts through the use of logic, which admittedly could b tough for some, but give it a shot.
That wasn't a reply to your thread... it was towards everyone who's been ripping on him the last couple days... so I guess it is towards you, then

Sergei Berezin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 02:51 PM
  #43
Porn*
Registered User
 
Porn*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In your nightmares
Country: Israel
Posts: 34,014
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Porn*
this thread is full of absolute hilarious flawgic... flawed logic. he (mac and kuli) are trying, and have shown to not give up. they're having issues, no doubt... but it'll all fix itself in due time.

and to those posters talking about millions of dollars and players not being allowed to have human emotion. You should give yourself a shake... we're human, we've got ups and downs and money has ZERO effect.

Porn* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 02:59 PM
  #44
leafspring*
 
leafspring*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,361
vCash: 500
Last year Mac/Kulie/Grabbo combined while playing together a total= 566 shots as a line,and this years projected stats are saying the combined total shots broken up as a line will be 417 shots combined.Thats a 149 shot difference,or 50 shots each less.

That said,
MacArthur is on pace for 24 points less
Kulie is on pace for 27 points less
Grabovski is on pace for 9 points less for a total 60 scoring points total combined lost.

Kulie is on pace for 22 goals less,and MacArthur is on pace for 25 assists less. )(ironically?)

The line needs to be slammed back together.


Last edited by leafspring*: 01-25-2012 at 04:36 PM.
leafspring* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 05:26 PM
  #45
Hero
The Corporal Returns
 
Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,139
vCash: 500
Last year, I ate a lot of crow for what I had said about Kulie when he was coming up.

I want to go back to eating that crow.

Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 05:29 PM
  #46
-DeMo-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,347
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to -DeMo-
Mac not a goal scorer, he wasn't last year ethier barely making the 20 goal mark I think his drop off in points has something to do with Grabo and Kulemin not putting up the same goals. Mac has 12 goals in 40 games which is a 24 goal pace(better then last year) but his assist are way down.

-DeMo- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:00 PM
  #47
Burkeburger*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 645
vCash: 500
Mac is not a complete player by any means. Not dedicated enough ether.

He is pretty one sided, I thought he would play good defence and fight for situations etc. But that is not happening.

He and Connolly should be fired. By Trump Change.

Burkeburger* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:06 PM
  #48
pspot
Registered User
 
pspot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,316
vCash: 500
torts talked about how important consistency is to players during this years 24/7

imo despite the preseason injuries mac/grabo/kulemin should have been playing together all year. they showed to mutch chemistry last year to give up on it so quickly

pspot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:16 PM
  #49
Volcanologist
Spark up a Dubas
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kessel Apocalypse
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,631
vCash: 500
Might be that the 3 of them just caught lightning in a bottle for a season.

It happens.

Volcanologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:37 PM
  #50
Voodoo Child
Lǎobǎn
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hangzhou-Suzhou
Country: China
Posts: 3,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle View Post
Stop making the excuse for the guy. Kuli is a good two way player with solid offensive skill like a guy like Simmonds, Clutterbuck. Guys that can score a couple goals and play both ends. He's going to play 4 seasons in the NHL, and to date he's had one season where he scored over 20 goals and 50 points, and the other season being a 30 point player, 15-20 goals, 15-20 assists. Yeah, Mac is playing disinterested, should be a healthy scratch, but the offence just dies with Kuli these days. Missing shots, he's not even getting assists or secondary assists, to put up point totals. Heck he's having a worse offensive season than Mac with more games played.
Thank you.

The Yaroslavl plane crash was a tragedy, and it has to be hard on Kulemin, losing several friends and the mentor in his life, but I don't see how that explains how he seems to have no idea what to do with the puck on his stick anymore.

Don't let a tragedy interfere with how you do your job.

Voodoo Child is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.