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Old
01-23-2012, 12:24 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
Wait you mean they don't have a competent coach? This dream team was just 1 win away from the playoffs themselves, and with that 1 win it's the Eagles in the SB instead of the Giants, right?!!
Hmmm, if the dream team could have prevented Skelton time...

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The now last 5 NFC Champions beat the Bills during the season.


Had the Eagles beaten the Bills, they would be in the playoffs and the Giants wouldn't have made it.


It's amazing how the butterfly effect works in the NFL.
There was about 3 or 4 games that they should have won, but coaching prevented them from doing so.

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01-23-2012, 01:16 AM
  #177
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I wonder what the Eagles organization's reaction is now that the Giants have made the Super Bowl twice in the last 5 seasons now, both years with seemingly inferior. Are they bad? Not at all. Did anyone think they'd outlast the Packers and Saints (among others)? I can't imagine that. They were underdogs throughout a couple years ago too.

They got guys who just get it done in the playoffs, regardless of how they did in the regular season.

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01-23-2012, 01:38 AM
  #178
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I wonder what the Eagles organization's reaction is now that the Giants have made the Super Bowl twice in the last 5 seasons now, both years with seemingly inferior. Are they bad? Not at all. Did anyone think they'd outlast the Packers and Saints (among others)? I can't imagine that. They were underdogs throughout a couple years ago too.

They got guys who just get it done in the playoffs, regardless of how they did in the regular season.
To me the talent is there, it's just the people who are running the ship. I think it is hilarious about how the giants have missed the playoffs the last 2 years after collapsing, yet they are probably going to win number 4. And all of us are just going to think about another year of what could have been. the bottom line is they arent very far away from being a sb team, the problem is that that they wont address the issue in which is holding them back(coaching). to me this is a make or break year for reid.

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01-23-2012, 08:33 AM
  #179
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Eli vs. Brady in the place that Peyton built.

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01-23-2012, 09:09 AM
  #180
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Don't even think I am gonna watch the SB. No interest in seeing either team win.

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01-23-2012, 09:14 AM
  #181
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I couldn't think of a worse matchup than this. The city that has won ****ing everything for the past decade vs New damn York.

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01-24-2012, 12:38 AM
  #182
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I just don't understand how the god damn Giants can keep making the Superbowl like this. Do they really have that good of a coaching staff? Eli's a good QB but he isn't elite. Talents wise I thin the Eagles are a little better as well. Damn dude sometimes I just don't know why they can't get over the hump...

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01-24-2012, 01:00 AM
  #183
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Eli's elite now. Just going to have to deal with that.

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01-24-2012, 01:13 AM
  #184
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Eli's elite now. Just going to have to deal with that.
Haha, Eli got past mid field all by himself twice. The whole game.

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01-24-2012, 04:01 AM
  #185
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I just don't understand how the god damn Giants can keep making the Superbowl like this. Do they really have that good of a coaching staff? Eli's a good QB but he isn't elite. Talents wise I thin the Eagles are a little better as well. Damn dude sometimes I just don't know why they can't get over the hump...
I have so much respect for the Giants and how that team is run from the owners to the GM to Tom Coughlin. They are everything I want the Eagles to be and never will be as long as Reid is here and Lurie has his back. That really makes me hate them that much more. They play the game how it's supposed to be played (IMO), smash-mouth, grind-it out football. A (really, really small) part in me (the part that is a football fan, not an Eagles fan) is extremely happy that such a team is having success in today's play-station football era, which I can hardly watch. Then again, the Ravens and 49ers play the same style and they are not the Giants and that Super Bowl would have been an epic defensive battle.

To answer your questions: Yes, I think Coughlin is that good a coach. That Giants team got slaughtered in week 12 by the Saints, lost to the freaking Redskins in week 15 and somehow switched a flip after that, returning to the basics of their game. How they did that, I don't know, but Coughlin deserves all the credit he's getting now. I don't think you can deny Eli being called elite anymore. Granted, his stats against the 49ers aren't that impressive, but on 3rd downs and in the 4th quarter and during the playoffs in general he's playing darn well most of the time and that's when it counts. That brings me to the next issue. In my mind there is no doubt that the Eagles are a better team then the Giants talent-wise. Hell, I even think, the Cowboys are better. So, basically the Giants are the 3rd-best team in their own division, and half the conference is better IMO (SF, ATL, DET, GB, NO, CHI with a healthy Cutler and Forte). But it takes more to win than talent (just ask the Falcons for example) and whatever it is, the Giants and Tom Coughlin have it.

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01-24-2012, 08:17 AM
  #186
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Another NY versus Boston sports championship. :/

I can't stand the 9'ers and was still hoping they'd win.

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01-24-2012, 08:40 AM
  #187
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So who are we drafting? LB? WR? DT?

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01-24-2012, 08:53 AM
  #188
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I have so much respect for the Giants and how that team is run from the owners to the GM to Tom Coughlin. They are everything I want the Eagles to be and never will be as long as Reid is here and Lurie has his back. That really makes me hate them that much more. They play the game how it's supposed to be played (IMO), smash-mouth, grind-it out football. A (really, really small) part in me (the part that is a football fan, not an Eagles fan) is extremely happy that such a team is having success in today's play-station football era, which I can hardly watch. Then again, the Ravens and 49ers play the same style and they are not the Giants and that Super Bowl would have been an epic defensive battle.

To answer your questions: Yes, I think Coughlin is that good a coach. That Giants team got slaughtered in week 12 by the Saints, lost to the freaking Redskins in week 15 and somehow switched a flip after that, returning to the basics of their game. How they did that, I don't know, but Coughlin deserves all the credit he's getting now. I don't think you can deny Eli being called elite anymore. Granted, his stats against the 49ers aren't that impressive, but on 3rd downs and in the 4th quarter and during the playoffs in general he's playing darn well most of the time and that's when it counts. That brings me to the next issue. In my mind there is no doubt that the Eagles are a better team then the Giants talent-wise. Hell, I even think, the Cowboys are better. So, basically the Giants are the 3rd-best team in their own division, and half the conference is better IMO (SF, ATL, DET, GB, NO, CHI with a healthy Cutler and Forte). But it takes more to win than talent (just ask the Falcons for example) and whatever it is, the Giants and Tom Coughlin have it.
Couple of thoughts:

1) Are the Giants really a smash-mouth, grind-it out team right now? Historically, yes. But I'm not sure they have been this season. The running game was pretty dismal this season and the fact that there rushing numbers have gone up in the postseason is due to basically two or three big runs — not better running in general. They really have been a big play offense lead by the passing game. Hell, they're entire season turned on the Manning to Cruz 99 yard TD against the Jets.

2) Talent doesn't equal wins. Look at the Redskins for the past decade — always bought players who either didn't fit a system or just got complacent. I don't know how you measure if a team is better (save record and success). I will agree that the Eagles and Cowboys are more talented than the Giants — but are they better?

3) I don't think number tell the real story with Eli. His demeanor — which I always thought was a weakness — may actually be his greatest strength. What used to be seen as indifferent or aloof is now unflappable and ice cold poise. And the team seems to take their cue from him. What he did this year was tremendous — with an ineffective running game, new key pieces on the offensive line, assorted injuries and losing two of his safety valve guys in Boss and Smith. Manning is a large reason for Cruz's emergence.

4) In a town that loves to deify sports figures, perhaps Tom Coughlin is the least appreciated in the history of NYC sports. I admit that I was wondering if it was time to turn the page at 7-7 — mostly because of his age and being dubious about what the future really could be with a coach of his age.

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01-24-2012, 10:15 AM
  #189
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Haha, Eli got past mid field all by himself twice. The whole game.
Given that he threw for just short of 5,000 yards this year, I'm privy to believe that he got past midfield enough this season.

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01-24-2012, 10:16 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Couple of thoughts:

1) Are the Giants really a smash-mouth, grind-it out team right now? Historically, yes. But I'm not sure they have been this season. The running game was pretty dismal this season and the fact that there rushing numbers have gone up in the postseason is due to basically two or three big runs not better running in general. They really have been a big play offense lead by the passing game. Hell, they're entire season turned on the Manning to Cruz 99 yard TD against the Jets.

2) Talent doesn't equal wins. Look at the Redskins for the past decade always bought players who either didn't fit a system or just got complacent. I don't know how you measure if a team is better (save record and success). I will agree that the Eagles and Cowboys are more talented than the Giants but are they better?

3) I don't think number tell the real story with Eli. His demeanor which I always thought was a weakness may actually be his greatest strength. What used to be seen as indifferent or aloof is now unflappable and ice cold poise. And the team seems to take their cue from him. What he did this year was tremendous with an ineffective running game, new key pieces on the offensive line, assorted injuries and losing two of his safety valve guys in Boss and Smith. Manning is a large reason for Cruz's emergence.

4) In a town that loves to deify sports figures, perhaps Tom Coughlin is the least appreciated in the history of NYC sports. I admit that I was wondering if it was time to turn the page at 7-7 mostly because of his age and being dubious about what the future really could be with a coach of his age.
Well, it's hard to put into words how I explain the Giants' being in the Super Bowl again, as it is quite a phenomenon I think, so maybe I didn't express my thoughts accurately.

ad 1) I agree that they are not a smash-mouth, grind-it out team per se when it comes to style and play-calling. But they really are attitude-wise. They are not afraid to get their hands dirty and will go where it hurts if necessary. In a low-scoring affair, where both teams struggle to get 1st downs and it comes down to the 4th quarter, I won't hesitate to pick the Giants to make the play to win it. I think mental toughness might be better to describe what I meant.

ad 2) All those teams I listed I think are more talented than the Giants, not better. I started out talking about talent and somehow got to "better". Of course, the Giants are a better team than the Cowboys and Eagles. The Eagles have no one else to blame but themselves and the Cowboys proved to be a lesser team than the Giants in week 17, more talented or not.

ad 3) Agreed 100%. Eli got hit , huried or sacked over 30 times against the 49ers in 64 dropbacks, sometimes getting buried under 2 or more defensive line-men. The 49ers defense dominated that game but Eli hanging in there was one of the main reasons the Giants pulled out the win. His QB rating of 82.3 shows that numbers do actually lie sometimes.

ad 4) Like I said, Tom Coughlin is a terrific coach IMO. I think he's the main reason for 1)mental toughness and overcoming 2)inferior talent. When I ask myself whether the Eagles would have won more in the last decade with Coughlin instead of Reid, the answer is yes. The Eagles had a lot of talented teams here but couldn't pull it together.

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01-24-2012, 10:48 AM
  #191
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Given that he threw for just short of 5,000 yards this year, I'm privy to believe that he got past midfield enough this season.
Sorry, you said "he's elite now" which led me to assume that he had just done something to make him elite. I still don't agree though. Elite qb's are clutch and put teams on their back to win. They don't rely on rookie punt returners fumbling.

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01-24-2012, 11:17 AM
  #192
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Sorry, you said "he's elite now" which led me to assume that he had just done something to make him elite. I still don't agree though. Elite qb's are clutch and put teams on their back to win. They don't rely on rookie punt returners fumbling.
Eli went into Lambeau and went toe-to-toe against Aaron Rodgers and outplayed him (combined with Packers receivers dropping every pass). The presumptive league MVP. Sometimes it takes until now to realize it during the season. It wasn't until around this time last year that the E word was only beginning to be used for Aaron Rodgers (he needed to win a playoff game first).

I'm using his body of work for this season. Eli led the league in 4th quarter TD passes and had 5 4th quarter comebacks this season (including twice against Brady in Foxboro, nobody does that). He also lost Steve Smith (107 catches 2 years ago), and Kevin Boss - which was supposed to cripple the Giants offense, but he had the best year of his career instead. One of the things the other elite QB's like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Peyton, etc. is take new receivers no one knows about and make people know about them (Ballard and Cruz in this case).

I was never an Eli fan either, but I think it's time for him to give him his due. It was sort of out of character for himself to claim he was elite before the year and everyone laughed at him, but he backed it up.

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01-24-2012, 11:42 AM
  #193
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For a team that was as inconsistent as the Giants were this year--hot start and really hard second half of the season--Eli was the only consistent part of that team. If they based MVPs off of things other than gaudy numbers, his name would be in the mix.

Without Eli, they likely go the way of the Eagles -- win some games on talent alone, but not enough to get to the playoffs.

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01-24-2012, 12:23 PM
  #194
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Elite qb's are clutch and put teams on their back to win. They don't rely on rookie punt returners fumbling.
Take out the last game and what you describe as being an elite QB is exactly what Eli has done.

And the 3 and 14 TD pass to Manningham was a pretty big play.


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01-24-2012, 12:55 PM
  #195
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Sorry, you said "he's elite now" which led me to assume that he had just done something to make him elite. I still don't agree though. Elite qb's are clutch and put teams on their back to win. They don't rely on rookie punt returners fumbling.
Sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and should probably refrain from commenting further on this subject.

Haters gonna hate.

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01-24-2012, 01:13 PM
  #196
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It was funny before the season when he lumped himself in with the elite, and all but called himself elite...but he sure as hell backed it up this season. He's got me sold.

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01-26-2012, 11:55 AM
  #197
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Eli went into Lambeau and went toe-to-toe against Aaron Rodgers and outplayed him (combined with Packers receivers dropping every pass). The presumptive league MVP. Sometimes it takes until now to realize it during the season. It wasn't until around this time last year that the E word was only beginning to be used for Aaron Rodgers (he needed to win a playoff game first).

I'm using his body of work for this season. Eli led the league in 4th quarter TD passes and had 5 4th quarter comebacks this season (including twice against Brady in Foxboro, nobody does that). He also lost Steve Smith (107 catches 2 years ago), and Kevin Boss - which was supposed to cripple the Giants offense, but he had the best year of his career instead. One of the things the other elite QB's like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Peyton, etc. is take new receivers no one knows about and make people know about them (Ballard and Cruz in this case).

I was never an Eli fan either, but I think it's time for him to give him his due. It was sort of out of character for himself to claim he was elite before the year and everyone laughed at him, but he backed it up.
Not only could none of Rodgers receivers catch a ball that hit them right in the numbers, on D they couldn't tackle anything. As a whole I don't buy all this "oh no one goes into Foxborough or Lambeau and beats Pats or Pack" or what have you. It's been done before and it will be done again. Sure Brady was undefeated at home since like 2006 or whatever they also cheated for a while during that time period by taping other teams practices held in their own practice facility. Brady looked awful in the Giants game there earlier, Giants D is underrated and gives Eli and co. chances to win games.

Ballard? Jason Avant had basically the same stats on the year getting thrown to by Vick is he elite? Victor Cruz is uncoverable he gets matched up with some of the best corners in the league and just runs past them. He plays like hes hungry and goes to the ball and may be one of the best receivers in the game.

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01-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #198
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Not only could none of Rodgers receivers catch a ball that hit them right in the numbers, on D they couldn't tackle anything. As a whole I don't buy all this "oh no one goes into Foxborough or Lambeau and beats Pats or Pack" or what have you. It's been done before and it will be done again. Sure Brady was undefeated at home since like 2006 or whatever they also cheated for a while during that time period by taping other teams practices held in their own practice facility. Brady looked awful in the Giants game there earlier, Giants D is underrated and gives Eli and co. chances to win games.

Ballard? Jason Avant had basically the same stats on the year getting thrown to by Vick is he elite? Victor Cruz is uncoverable he gets matched up with some of the best corners in the league and just runs past them. He plays like hes hungry and goes to the ball and may be one of the best receivers in the game.
Yawn. Again, haters gonna hate.

As for your ridiculously incorrect statement a few posts up that insinuates Eli isn't clutch and doesn't put the team on his back to win games... I'd say setting the single-season NFL record for touchdown passes in the fourth quarter debunks your claim completely.

Either you're totally delusional, suffering from a severe case of sour grapes, or just have no idea what you're talking about. Give the guy his ****ing due.

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01-26-2012, 12:32 PM
  #199
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Not only could none of Rodgers receivers catch a ball that hit them right in the numbers, on D they couldn't tackle anything. As a whole I don't buy all this "oh no one goes into Foxborough or Lambeau and beats Pats or Pack" or what have you. It's been done before and it will be done again. Sure Brady was undefeated at home since like 2006 or whatever they also cheated for a while during that time period by taping other teams practices held in their own practice facility. Brady looked awful in the Giants game there earlier, Giants D is underrated and gives Eli and co. chances to win games.

Ballard? Jason Avant had basically the same stats on the year getting thrown to by Vick is he elite? Victor Cruz is uncoverable he gets matched up with some of the best corners in the league and just runs past them. He plays like hes hungry and goes to the ball and may be one of the best receivers in the game.
You're comparing someone who was supposed be a backup TE to the Eagles main slot receiver. Just sayin'.

And no, Vick is not elite. Not even close.

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01-26-2012, 05:47 PM
  #200
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Vick is a good QB, but the thing about Eli is is he has to many games in which you couldnt tell that he is an elite qb.

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