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Simple reason Kings scoring is down.

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Old
01-23-2012, 12:37 AM
  #1
Pucknut50
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Simple reason Kings scoring is down.

Hockey goals are scored with someone in front. Kings have very little net presence. Brown does it but not well. Penner is a big guy and should be perfect but he rather play the perimeter game. The 3rd line which some people here like but basically never score is due to all the players play the perimeter.
Clifford seems like a good player to stand in front but always along the boards.

Last year Smyth and Handzus were the guys in front blocking the goalies view. We have zero players good at this and that is the #1 problem.

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01-23-2012, 12:40 AM
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Losing smyth and zues hurt us a lot more than we thought it would. Hopefully dean can get some guys with good front of the net presence

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01-23-2012, 12:42 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Hockey goals are scored with someone in front. Kings have very little net presence. Brown does it but not well. Penner is a big guy and should be perfect but he rather play the perimeter game. The 3rd line which some people here like but basically never score is due to all the players play the perimeter.
Clifford seems like a good player to stand in front but always along the boards.

Last year Smyth and Handzus were the guys in front blocking the goalies view. We have zero players good at this and that is the #1 problem.
we were terrible at scoring last year as well, just not this laughably bad.

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01-23-2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
we were terrible at scoring last year as well, just not this laughably bad.
Yes, but like Pucknut and James both said Zues and Smyth helped that and we probably would've been a worse scoring team without those two last year. Almost every goal this season the bottom 6 has scored is due to guys creating traffic in front and crashing the net. Even Johnson's goal a handful of games ago was a direct result of Clifford (or was it Lewis?) crahing the net after hitting Johnson with a pass and causing the goalie to overplay the shot as to prevent a rebound. The issue to me seems to be getting traffic every game and not just once every 4-5 games, because when the traffic is there the system works, the traffic just isn't there consistently.

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01-23-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
...
The issue to me seems to be getting traffic every game and not just once every 4-5 games, because when the traffic is there the system works, the traffic just isn't there consistently.
Yep, and I think it was Richards (not completely sure) who said that it takes time to change the mentality/instincts. I think we will start to see more traffic in front of the net (and in the slot area) in the near future. Also, simply driving to the net with the puck, but same thing there, starting to see some glimpses of that.

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01-23-2012, 10:04 AM
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Face Wash
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Kings Goals Per Game since Lombardi took over...

06-07: 20th (2.72 GPG)
07-08: T-13th (2.76 GPG)
08-09: 27th (2.46 GPG)
09-10: 9th (2.82 GPG)
10-11: 25th (2.55 GPG)
11-12: 30th (2.10 GPG)

It's a lot of things. It's personnel, it's system, it's lack of execution, lack of true speed with skill, lack of creativity especially on outnumbered attacks, Kings play a slower game than most teams (defensemen hold the puck too long and forwards take longer to get in position on breakouts), lack of turnover creation in the neutral zone, lack of movement on the PP, lack of Defensemen joining the rush up ice, and yes a lack of strong front net presence. It's everything combined and its hit rock bottom.

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01-23-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Hockey goals are scored with someone in front. Kings have very little net presence. Brown does it but not well. Penner is a big guy and should be perfect but he rather play the perimeter game. The 3rd line which some people here like but basically never score is due to all the players play the perimeter.
Clifford seems like a good player to stand in front but always along the boards.

Last year Smyth and Handzus were the guys in front blocking the goalies view. We have zero players good at this and that is the #1 problem.
100% agree. Penner doesn't do it well often enough and the rest of the team in general doesn't seem to want to go there. I'll admit I didn't see the impact Zues and Simmonds had until they both left (though I don't regret letting either go, just wish we had replaced them).

I think Gaustad and/or Moen would be good short term fixes to this for the lower lines. for the top two lines, it's in Penner's hands really.

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01-23-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
Hockey goals are scored with someone in front. Kings have very little net presence. Brown does it but not well. Penner is a big guy and should be perfect but he rather play the perimeter game. The 3rd line which some people here like but basically never score is due to all the players play the perimeter.
Clifford seems like a good player to stand in front but always along the boards.

Last year Smyth and Handzus were the guys in front blocking the goalies view. We have zero players good at this and that is the #1 problem.
The Kings had scoring problems last year when both Handzus and Smyth were Kings so I have my doubts they were difference makers in terms of offense.

Handzus was J. Allison slow and he would be our 4th line center this year.
Smyth this year is like last year MIA since January and is horrible in his own zone and waay overpaid for a 3rd line winger he should be at this stage of career.

pointing the obvious.

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01-23-2012, 11:44 AM
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Are we really pining over Smyth and Handzus considering we were 25th in the league in goals last year?

While I agree that net presence is part of the problem, it's not any larger of a problem the the laundry list of other things Face Wash listed.

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01-23-2012, 01:10 PM
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Losing Handzus, Smyth and Simmonds was bad for the system Terry Murray was running so when the Kings tried to run the same system with smaller players, they were getting even worse results. The offense went from bad to worse. I don't think a net presence is the solution to the problem. The problem is much bigger than that. You need personnel who can score and a system that embraces a faster pace and more emphasis on scoring and offensive creativity. I don't even know who the top offense is in the league is but I doubt they are scoring a lot because they have somebody screening the goalie at all times. Sometimes? Maybe. But my guess is the best offensive teams in the league have superior offensive talent than the Kings and there is more of an emphasis on offense in their system.

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01-23-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Are we really pining over Smyth and Handzus considering we were 25th in the league in goals last year?

While I agree that net presence is part of the problem, it's not any larger of a problem the the laundry list of other things Face Wash listed.
Oops! what he said... lol!

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01-23-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Are we really pining over Smyth and Handzus considering we were 25th in the league in goals last year?

While I agree that net presence is part of the problem, it's not any larger of a problem the the laundry list of other things Face Wash listed.
Not really pining the lose of those two, but pointing out that both of them did it and the offense wasn't THIS bad. Smyth is old and good for half a season at best and is a defensive liability, Handzus is slower than a zamboni getting up and down the ice, but both of them would park themselves in front of net and that is something the Kings need badly. Not those two per se, but players that have that knack are what is needed right now.

Face Wash is right in that it's not one thing specifically, but I'd be curious to hear your opinion on how to fix those things? I'd like to see the forwards freed from some of the burden on the defensive end to generate quicker breakouts and for Sutter to do a better job of catering to the players on a line than he has (at least he seems better than Murray but not much.)

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01-23-2012, 01:57 PM
  #13
Minor Boarding
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The biggest reason why the Kings aren't scoring is:

The slow passes that are rarely stick to stick from the defensman to our forwards which causes slow transition and less chances on the rush (where the best scoring chances are).

No fast transition = defense in position = low scoring chances.

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01-23-2012, 02:08 PM
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I had a dream last night that the Kings scored 3 goals in the final minute of a period.

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Old
01-23-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Are we really pining over Smyth and Handzus considering we were 25th in the league in goals last year?

While I agree that net presence is part of the problem, it's not any larger of a problem the the laundry list of other things Face Wash listed.
Not pining for either one actually, but pining for what they brought. I think both players are on the downside of the career but if we could find fresher versions, it'd solve that problem. I agree the issues go beyond simply having some big bodies in front of the net but we need that as well, so why not fix it? It'll be a lot less costly to fix that issue than the system problem as a whole, since we both know that will likley never be solved until DL is moved on.

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01-23-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
The biggest reason why the Kings aren't scoring is:

The slow passes that are rarely stick to stick from the defensman to our forwards which causes slow transition and less chances on the rush (where the best scoring chances are).

No fast transition = defense in position = low scoring chances.
kinda disagree. Our passing is not HORRID, yet its not GREAT. From what I see, it is A LOT better since Sutter stepped in. And if you watched the games since the beginning, i think you would agree with me.

In fact I like our passing game at the very moment. We just need more crease players. I.E., simmonds, zeus, and smyth. Screen the goalie, crash the net, keep the forecheck going. Those will work for a dump and chase offense (imo). Right now, we are missing 2/3 elements.

Our efforts to screening the goalie is subpar

Crashing the net is there but we need people like Stoll and Penner to be more committed.

Forechecking only happens when Brown is out there lol

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01-23-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Losing Handzus, Smyth and Simmonds was bad for the system Terry Murray was running so when the Kings tried to run the same system with smaller players, they were getting even worse results. The offense went from bad to worse. I don't think a net presence is the solution to the problem. The problem is much bigger than that. You need personnel who can score and a system that embraces a faster pace and more emphasis on scoring and offensive creativity. I don't even know who the top offense is in the league is but I doubt they are scoring a lot because they have somebody screening the goalie at all times. Sometimes? Maybe. But my guess is the best offensive teams in the league have superior offensive talent than the Kings and there is more of an emphasis on offense in their system.
Boston. And that's pretty much exactly how they score most of their goals... Top notch defense and the very definition of crash the net smash mouth hockey. Similar thing with Philadelphia as well. Then you get into the puck possession teams and high end skill teams in Chicago, Vancouver, and Detroit.

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01-23-2012, 04:30 PM
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It's kind of hard to force players to do what they have never done in their careers. The Stolls, Browns, Penners whatever are not those kind of players that have that instinct of "go to the net". I'm really hoping we get someone or hope hope hope that Kitsyn pans out.

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01-23-2012, 05:22 PM
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Minor Boarding
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kinda disagree. Our passing is not HORRID, yet its not GREAT. From what I see, it is A LOT better since Sutter stepped in. And if you watched the games since the beginning, i think you would agree with me.

In fact I like our passing game at the very moment. We just need more crease players. I.E., simmonds, zeus, and smyth. Screen the goalie, crash the net, keep the forecheck going. Those will work for a dump and chase offense (imo). Right now, we are missing 2/3 elements.

Our efforts to screening the goalie is subpar

Crashing the net is there but we need people like Stoll and Penner to be more committed.

Forechecking only happens when Brown is out there lol
1. The first passes out of the zone are slow, often the Kings defensman go d to d for 2-3 passes before going forward. That's an issue.

Who is screening the goaltender for the Blackhawks top line: Stalberg-Toews-Kane??
Who for the Bruins top line, Lucic-Krejci-Horton?
Who for the Penguins top line, Kunitz-Malkin-Neal?
Who for the Rags top line, Hagelin-Stepan-Gaborik?
Who for the Sharks, Canucks?
These are some of the best teams in the NHL and they don't need Smyth/Handzus to score goals and they don't need no effin pylon to screen the goalies to score.

The whole point shot with screen is getting old and annoying and this roster has way too much talent to employ this 90's era offensive systems.
Look at this and tell me how the goals are scored for two of the best current NHL teams? How many screens? 1 in 10 goals total?.


Last edited by Minor Boarding: 01-23-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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01-23-2012, 05:58 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
1. The first passes out of the zone are slow, often the Kings defensman go d to d for 2-3 passes before going forward. That's an issue.

Who is screening the goaltender for the Blackhawks top line: Stalberg-Toews-Kane??
Who for the Bruins top line, Lucic-Krejci-Horton?
Who for the Penguins top line, Kunitz-Malkin-Neal?
Who for the Rags top line, Hagelin-Stepan-Gaborik?
Who for the Sharks, Canucks?
These are some of the best teams in the NHL and they don't need Smyth/Handzus to score goals and they don't need no effin pylon to screen the goalies to score.

The whole point shot with screen is getting old and annoying and this roster has way too much talent to employ this 90's era offensive systems.
Look at this and tell me how the goals are scored for two of the best current NHL teams? How many screens? 1 in 10 goals total?.


well they figured out quality chances are better then quantity of chances.
They simply and plain force defender out of position to play a deadly pass.

We just shot into the crowd of the goal and hope for lucky bounces....

This is the difference

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01-23-2012, 06:18 PM
  #21
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Boston. And that's pretty much exactly how they score most of their goals... Top notch defense and the very definition of crash the net smash mouth hockey. Similar thing with Philadelphia as well. Then you get into the puck possession teams and high end skill teams in Chicago, Vancouver, and Detroit.
I've watched Boston play about 3 or 4 times this season and I've seen a lot of skill goals from guys like Seguin and Horton. The amount of skill on all of those teams is night and day from what the Kings have. Having a Handzus or Smyth would help the Kings score a few more goals but it isn't what is missing to get them to a contender level.

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01-23-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
1. The first passes out of the zone are slow, often the Kings defensman go d to d for 2-3 passes before going forward. That's an issue.

Who is screening the goaltender for the Blackhawks top line: Stalberg-Toews-Kane??
Who for the Bruins top line, Lucic-Krejci-Horton?
Who for the Penguins top line, Kunitz-Malkin-Neal?
Who for the Rags top line, Hagelin-Stepan-Gaborik?
Who for the Sharks, Canucks?
These are some of the best teams in the NHL and they don't need Smyth/Handzus to score goals and they don't need no effin pylon to screen the goalies to score.

The whole point shot with screen is getting old and annoying and this roster has way too much talent to employ this 90's era offensive systems.
Look at this and tell me how the goals are scored for two of the best current NHL teams? How many screens? 1 in 10 goals total?.
First I think you are misunderstanding what some of us are talking about. I know I personally I'm not talking about screening the goalie and shots from the point I am talking about players even when they don't have the puck, driving to the net and forcing the defensemen and goalie to pay attention to them. All to often the King enter the zone slowly and try to set the perfect pass by moving the puck around the perimeter of the boards while no one is creating traffic in front. Brown is about the only guy that consistently drives to the net looking for rebounds are misdirection goals. That's at least what I've been saying the Kings need more of.

That said the guys in bold all have this knack of always going to the net hard on every play. That is something that both Smyth and Handzus brought as well. Go back and rewatch the highlights you posted and almost every one of those goals is scored on:

1. a high pecrcentage shot within the top of the circles and between the faceoff dots.
2. on a misdirected shot or rebound with someone off the puck crashing the net.
3. or on a shot from the point with traffic in front of the net.

These are the areas that I think the Kings need to improve to fix the scoring woes. I don't think there is that big of a disparity in the lack of skill or size between the Kings and these other teams, it's a failure to consistently do the above three things that has them were they are in scoring and nothing else.

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01-23-2012, 11:28 PM
  #23
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We lost Handzus (a talented 1 on 1 guy), Smyth (a power guy who can score and make room), Simmonds (another power guy who can make room), Stoll got old suddenly...and we replaced them with Mike Richards, Colin Fraser and Loktionov, who isn't scoring at all. I didn't count Gagne since he's been out as well.

It's not a surprise we can't score. Basically Doughty, Kopitar and Stoll right now aren't earning their paychecks...if we pared their salaries down to their performance, we could squeeze in a full year of Zach Parise or another 1st line scorer.

- R

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01-24-2012, 02:26 PM
  #24
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Complicated reason Kings scoring is down...

Offfense X Tempo/Work ethic=
=
Low Scoring

There's your answer, Boys.

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01-24-2012, 05:55 PM
  #25
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Offfense X Tempo/Work ethic=
=
Low Scoring

There's your answer, Boys.

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