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Kaberle playing time

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Old
01-23-2012, 05:04 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
If you actually want to say something, say it. Don't play coward behind innuendos and half-arguments.

Otherwise, just shut up and let actual posters argue.
I didn't think much more needed to be said. He isn't the puck mover he once was. No need to pretend about it.

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01-23-2012, 09:12 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
See, I have the same stats as the rest of you. But what I've done above is add Even Strength Assists ranking + (PP assists/% of assists) in bold next to your list. Like I've been saying from the beginning, there's no doubt that the guy can pass the puck - well enough, in fact, that even as his ES ice time has gone down over recent years, he continues to rank top 5 perennially in PP Time On the Ice, and consequently still fairly high in overall TOI.

The guy is obviously still useful on the PP, where time and space afford him better passing situations. But realize that 50-60% of his assists in any given year stem from the fact that he played more PP minutes than everyone in the league (not just his team) except between 1 and 4 players every one of those years. Plenty of time for a puck moving defenseman to pick up 2nd assists, and not necessarily indicative of how "good" he is for a team, unless you're on a team with ample cap space that lives and dies by the powerplay and/or has 4 other solid guys holding down the fort at ES.

Since '08/09, he has gone from being a top 10 assists contributor at ES to almost dropping out of the top 30. I've never gone as far as to say that Kaberle is "horrible". But I stand by my opinion that if the Habs wanted to get better, a $4+ million powerplay guy probably wasn't the way to go; especially not one on the decline who exhibits a lot of reluctance to shoot the puck, and has become quite uncommitted and ineffectual in the defensive zone at ES.



Totally agree with what you say about stalling/slowing down the play. On top of that, he's getting to be as easy to read/predict as Gomez, which is obviously a bad thing. If Markov ends up retiring, I guess it won't hurt to have a guy like him around - he does have a good first pass (when he's making the simple plays, and not trying to thread it through traffic). I just don't see it as a good move in a year where there seemed to be opportunity and money available to move forward without taking risks on aging and still relatively expensive reclamation projects. And, since the majority of the game is played at ES, I'd rather give $4+ million (+ term) to someone that doesn't make me cross my fingers for good luck at ES (slight exaggeration).
Great post, explains your point of view alot better than 1 or 2 point per year decline.

I would hope (him not being very old) that the decline is due to psychological factors. When he signed his last contract in TO he took a considerable hometown discount and had to deal year in year out with trade rumors (despite his NTC) due to the fact that he was the only desirable piece. I can't see him having enjoyed his last time in Toronto or Carolina and how he wouldn't fit in Boston with a dump and chase mentality. I could see him finding his game again (possibly with a slight decline) if he starts enjoying playing again.

As far as the MAB comparison goes I would need to see 2 seasons of that kind of production before I consider it as more than an anomaly or product of circumstance (injuries)

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01-23-2012, 11:57 AM
  #303
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Alex Goligoski
4 years 18.4 million dollars (4.6 cap hit)
36 games, 15 pts, -6

Kaberle in Montreal, on a worse team than Dallas. (4.25 cap hit)
19 games, 11 pts, even

Horrible, untradeable, above market value, albatross of a contract for Kaberle.

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01-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Alex Goligoski
4 years 18.4 million dollars (4.6 cap hit)
36 games, 15 pts, -6

Kaberle in Montreal, on a worse team than Dallas. (4.25 cap hit)
19 games, 11 pts, even

Horrible, untradeable, above market value, albatross of a contract for Kaberle.
Goligoski is also entering his prime and is 7 years younger.

He also spends on average more or less 25 minutes on the ice

Bottom line is Kaberle at 10 minutes a game is a terrible addition and contract to this team. Play him 20 minutes with his contract

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01-23-2012, 12:19 PM
  #305
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Goligoski is also entering his prime and is 7 years younger.

He also spends on average more or less 25 minutes on the ice

Bottom line is Kaberle at 10 minutes a game is a terrible addition and contract to this team. Play him 20 minutes with his contract
Since he joined the Canadiens, Kaberle's average TOI/game is around 16:30. Goligoski is at 22:34 btw.

Kaberle with the Canadiens:

19 GP, 1 G, 10A, 11 pts, a +/- of 0, around 16:30 per game.

More importantly, he looks more involved lately, he communicates with our young Ds and… he did lose his double chin!

I wish for Weber (left point) and Kaberle (right point) on the first PP unit.

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01-23-2012, 12:21 PM
  #306
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Weber over Subban?

Oh well.. What do I know...

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01-23-2012, 12:22 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Goligoski is also entering his prime and is 7 years younger.
Goligoski has how many 45 pts or more seasons? A: 1

Quote:
He also spends on average more or less 25 minutes on the ice
No he doesnt... its around 22:00

Quote:
Bottom line is Kaberle at 10 minutes a game is a terrible addition and contract to this team. Play him 20 minutes with his contract
Kaberle averages around 16:30 minutes, not 10 since joining the Habs. And plays even more when they dress 6 D instead of 7. So I'll ask this:

If Kaberle played 3:30 more per game (at 19 games this is about 60 minutes of ice time total) and was -6 in that time (Goligoski's number) without scoring a single additional point, he'd then be worth his contract?


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01-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #308
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Weber over Subban?

Oh well.. What do I know...
One thing you should know: our Habs are currently 30th in the league in terms of PP%. The status quo is not an option.

Increasing Weber TOI and using him on the left point alongside Kaberle (right point) with the first PP unit would be a small step in the right direction imo.

Btw... Weber is 5th in terms of PP goals scored by a D... in the NHL.


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01-23-2012, 12:32 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
One thing you should know: our Habs are currently 30th in the league in terms of PP%. The status quo is not an option.

Increasing Weber TOI would be a small step in the right direction imo.

Btw... Weber is 5th in terms of PP goals scored by a D... in the NHL.
I guess. Feel sorry for PK, tho. I wished he fixed his slap shot. No idea how he went from a highly precise shot to what we have right now.

Weber has a more reliable shot, but that's all he's got over Subban regarding PP zone control.

More TOI for Weber might prove to help his tradability. I don't think the problem with the PP is the players. I think it's the strategy they picked, or the lack thereof.

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01-23-2012, 12:37 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I guess. Feel sorry for PK, tho. I wished he fixed his slap shot. No idea how he went from a highly precise shot to what we have right now.

Weber has a more reliable shot, but that's all he's got over Subban regarding PP zone control.

More TOI for Weber might prove to help his tradability. I don't think the problem with the PP is the players. I think it's the strategy they picked, or the lack thereof.
"... I don't think the problem with the PP is the players. I think it's the strategy they picked, or the lack thereof."

Maybe it is both!

As for Subban, Markov's injury and Hamrlik's departure did put an insane amount of pressure on his shoulders; I totally blame Gauthier on that one.

Subban is a great 22 years old D. 22 years old being key words here.


Edit:

"... Weber has a more reliable shot, but that's all he's got over Subban regarding PP zone control..."

I agree 100% - PP zone control from the point would be Kaberle's job on the first PP unit... and Subban's job on the second PP unit.

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01-23-2012, 01:57 PM
  #311
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Lol, did anyone else notice Kaberlei standing right behind Obama at the whitehouse?

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Old
01-23-2012, 02:36 PM
  #312
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If Subban could learn to dish the puck as well as Markov or Kaberle, he'd be an awesome player on top of an umbrella.

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01-23-2012, 05:07 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I guess. Feel sorry for PK, tho. I wished he fixed his slap shot. No idea how he went from a highly precise shot to what we have right now.

Weber has a more reliable shot, but that's all he's got over Subban regarding PP zone control.

More TOI for Weber might prove to help his tradability. I don't think the problem with the PP is the players. I think it's the strategy they picked, or the lack thereof.
Maybe if PK reduces the time he spends pointing at the arena's roof before making a slap shot (or fake shot... about 60% of the time) it would not alert everyone that he's taking so much time to shoot and they won't have nearly as much time to deflect the shot or block it?

Each time he does that, I'm wondering if he's summoning some kind of magic power. Seriously it gets me sooo mad. And the best thing, is that it doesn't do ***** to the shot's power. Lidstrom, I think, pointed out that slapping from a 90 degrees angle (stick horizontal to ice) has the same power as going all-out PK-Swagger-180-degrees-technique. But I guess it's much more 'gangsta-looking' if you do it his way.

Whatever. Love PK, but fix your ******* slap shot.

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