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01-23-2012, 11:25 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Agree with joshjull. I'm OK with Roy for Plekanec.

However, I'm hoping BUF retains Roy for center depth, acquires another #1a / #1B center, and then allows Roy to leave after his contract expires, when he'll be 30yo.

If BUF had center depth now, I'd trade Roy tomorow for the right package.

Even if you consider the utter calamnity this season has been, what team interested in a serious push for the Cup wouldn't want to pick up Roy at the deadline as affordable center depth insurance, plays ES, PP & PK, and has another affordable year remaining on his deal. Don't like him after your playoff run, then shop him again this offseason to another team (even back to BUF if they haven't solved their center problem - and it's a testament to how poor the Sabres center situation is that I'm even thinking that way about a boomerang).
I agree. The thing that many are forgetting, as well, is that the UFA center class this summer is absolute garbage. There's not even a Brad Richards to dream about. The best UFA center is Mikhail Grabovski, FFS. I'm sure there are plenty of teams willing to take on Roy for a playoff run plus what essentially amounts to a 1yr/$5.5m ($4.0m cap hit).

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01-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #177
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Considering Versteeg, Kaberle, Penner and Fisher all got 1sts, I will be shocked if Roy doesn't return a first or equivalent prospect at minimum.

Also, I think Roy for Pleks would be a good deal for Buffalo. We need defensive play from the forwards as much as we need scoring. And his down-low game is tailor made for Vanek/Pominville.

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01-23-2012, 11:33 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
You're wrong.



Precisely. And don't forget that LA gave up a 1st, a pretty good prospect (Teubert), and a conditional pick (2nd rounder if the Kings win the Cup, 3rd otherwise) for Pancakes Penner.
I think it's funny that you guys are comparing the trades of Fisher and Penner to Roy.

I think team's heading on a playoff run a far more interested in adding Size, Tougness, Character, Intangibles, etc... then adding a small, offensive, #2 center...

Team's that are contenders probably don't have a hole that needs to be filled by Derek Roy, and the team's that do have that hole, aren't contenders, and aren't shipping off high end 1st rounders.

Chicago presumably is a team that "needs a #2 center".... I bet they are far more interested in replacing what they lost in Ladd and Byfuglien... then wanting anything to do with Derek Roy.

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01-23-2012, 11:42 AM
  #179
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Kaberle got the best return out of all of those guys. And he's softer than Roy.

Additionally, if Detroit/Chicago are underselling Roy because they want intangibles instead of raw offensive potential, that's fine. I think we'd get the best value for Derek out of a solid playoff team that's trying to add scoring to take itself to the next level. Minnesota/St. Louis/Florida come immediately to mind. Hell, even the Rangers...

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01-23-2012, 11:43 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I think it's funny that you guys are comparing the trades of Fisher and Penner to Roy.

I think team's heading on a playoff run a far more interested in adding Size, Tougness, Character, Intangibles, etc... then adding a small, offensive, #2 center...

Team's that are contenders probably don't have a hole that needs to be filled by Derek Roy, and the team's that do have that hole, aren't contenders, and aren't shipping off high end 1st rounders.

Chicago presumably is a team that "needs a #2 center".... I bet they are far more interested in replacing what they lost in Ladd and Byfuglien... then wanting anything to do with Derek Roy.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6122493

Quote:
The Toronto Maple Leafs traded forward Kris Versteeg to the Philadelphia Flyers for draft picks on Monday.

In return, the Leafs get first-round and third-round draft picks in 2011.
Sure, Philly only got a 2nd and a 3rd from Florida for Versteeg, but it's not out of the question that Roy could net a 1st rounder in the 20s, IMO.

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01-23-2012, 11:47 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6122493



Sure, Philly only got a 2nd and a 3rd from Florida for Versteeg, but it's not out of the question that Roy could net a 1st rounder in the 20s, IMO.
so we are using trades that are viewed as total failures (versteeg to philly, penner to LA)...

got it.

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01-23-2012, 11:55 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so we are using trades that are viewed as total failures (versteeg to philly, penner to LA)...

got it.
All it takes is one GM to overpay for a guy.

Just ask Ville Leino.

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01-23-2012, 11:57 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
All it takes is one GM to overpay for a guy.

Just ask Ville Leino.
There are always a few heads scratching overpayments at the deadline.

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01-23-2012, 12:02 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
There are always a few heads scratching overpayments at the deadline.
so a team paying a 1st round pick to acquire Derek Roy would be a "head scratching move" ?

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01-23-2012, 12:09 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so a team paying a 1st round pick to acquire Derek Roy would be a "head scratching move" ?
No, but is that not what you just implied when you said no contending team wants derek roy?


Last edited by LGB24: 01-23-2012 at 12:17 PM. Reason: typo
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01-23-2012, 12:09 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so a team paying a 1st round pick to acquire Derek Roy would be a "head scratching move" ?
No. They were refuting your point. Roy is going to get a 1st+ when he's traded. Teams trade for good players at the deadline. Not specific types of players.

And yes, Roy IS a good player.

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01-23-2012, 12:09 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so a team paying a 1st round pick to acquire Derek Roy would be a "head scratching move" ?
I wouldn't think so.

Center seems to be a "premium position" on the trade market.

Roy has a reasonable contract and he's under contract beyond 2011-12.

There aren't a lot of top 6 centers that are likely to move as guys like Stoll and O. Jokinen are your headline UFA-to-be centers.

Add that all together and I could see a mid to late 1st being the going price for a guy like Roy IF the Sabres are willing to deal Roy for a pick at the deadline.

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01-23-2012, 12:27 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
No, but is that not what you just implied when you said no contending team wants derek roy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
No. They were refuting your point. Roy is going to get a 1st+ when he's traded. Teams trade for good players at the deadline. Not specific types of players.

And yes, Roy IS a good player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I wouldn't think so.

Center seems to be a "premium position" on the trade market.

Roy has a reasonable contract and he's under contract beyond 2011-12.

There aren't a lot of top 6 centers that are likely to move as guys like Stoll and O. Jokinen are your headline UFA-to-be centers.

Add that all together and I could see a mid to late 1st being the going price for a guy like Roy IF the Sabres are willing to deal Roy for a pick at the deadline.
So, as GM of a contending team, you look at Derek Roy's body of work over the last 5 years (including the playoffs and lack of playoffs)... and you trade a 1st round pick for him? Especially coming off the dismal performance so far this year?

I've disliked Derek Roy for too many years to be unbiased.

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01-23-2012, 12:28 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
No. They were refuting your point. Roy is going to get a 1st+ when he's traded. Teams trade for good players at the deadline. Not specific types of players.

And yes, Roy IS a good player.
So good that we are trading him away for a draft pick when we have no other top 6 centers in sight...

uh huh


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01-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So, as GM of a contending team, you look at Derek Roy's body of work over the last 5 years (including the playoffs and lack of playoffs)... and you trade a 1st round pick for him? Especially coming off the dismal performance so far this year?
You look at a 70 point performer in a weak year at 4 mil and give up a mid-to-late first in a second.

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01-23-2012, 12:31 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So, as GM of a contending team, you look at Derek Roy's body of work over the last 5 years (including the playoffs and lack of playoffs)... and you trade a 1st round pick for him? Especially coming off the dismal performance so far this year?

I've disliked Derek Roy for too many years to be unbiased.
If Roy were sent to a team with a clear #1 center, yes. Teams arent interested in him as a top center option. He's an affordable option to add scoring down the middle on a contender.

Roy is at his best when he's not the focal point of the offense.

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01-23-2012, 12:33 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
You look at a 70 point performer in a weak year at 4 mil and give up a mid-to-late first in a second.
is Roy a 70 point player on a team's SECOND Line, without a 40 goal scorer on his wing, without top PP time?

so far this year, he looks like a 40-50 point player in that scenario...

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01-23-2012, 12:34 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
If Roy were sent to a team with a clear #1 center, yes. Teams arent interested in him as a top center option. He's an affordable option to add scoring down the middle on a contender.

Roy is at his best when he's not the focal point of the offense.
What?
Are we going back to the Briere/Drury era to make that case?

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01-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #194
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I'd take a sack of pucks for Roy.

He's not part of the solution going forward, so take what you can get and move on.

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01-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So, as GM of a contending team, you look at Derek Roy's body of work over the last 5 years (including the playoffs and lack of playoffs)... and you trade a 1st round pick for him? Especially coming off the dismal performance so far this year?

I've disliked Derek Roy for too many years to be unbiased.
If you want a top-6 NHL center on your team without giving one 4-6 years and $18m-$27m--which is what you'll give up in UFA--you don't have much of a choice. And that's just for starters.

As JB said, the positional market value for the center position is off the charts. A player who'd never eclipsed 25 pts in an NHL season (Turris) was traded for an elite prospect (Rundblad) and a 2nd rounder on the premise that he just needed a change of scenery. You don't think a GM would offer a 1st and a good prospect--not even on Rundblad's level--for a bona fide NHL top-6 center? You don't think there's at least one NHL GM out there saying, "You know, the Sabres are such a disjointed mess this season and have so many players underperforming, maybe all it'll take is to get the player off that team and he'll return to form?"

I think that if the Sabres were willing to take a 1st and a good prospect for Roy, he'd already be gone. But, according to reports, Darcy wants to make a top-6-for-top-6 trade, and that's probably a non-starter for the contending teams who'd probably be most interested in Roy.

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01-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
is Roy a 70 point player on a team's SECOND Line, without a 40 goal scorer on his wing, without top PP time?

so far this year, he looks like a 40-50 point player in that scenario...
In Chicago you'd never have to find out, because he could center two players who'd immediately be the best all-around linemates he's ever had in Hossa and Sharp.

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01-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So, as GM of a contending team, you look at Derek Roy's body of work over the last 5 years (including the playoffs and lack of playoffs)... and you trade a 1st round pick for him? Especially coming off the dismal performance so far this year?

I've disliked Derek Roy for too many years to be unbiased.
It would depend on the makeup of my team and where I wanted to go.

If I were the GM of a team that was going to pick in the 20s and I had a sizable hole at center, I'd think about it.

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01-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #198
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So good that we are trading him away for a draft pick when we have no other top 6 centers in sight...

uh huh

This is ridiculous. Yes, Derek Roy is a good hockey player. Yes, Drew Stafford is a good hockey player. They're having down years and both (Roy even more so) has worn out his welcome here. He's not a bad hockey player.

If we're trading Roy, it's not because he's bad, but because it's time for a change. In the dressing room, on the ice, this core isn't getting it done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
What?
Are we going back to the Briere/Drury era to make that case?
A bit, yes.

Perhaps I should have said "Roy would be at his best not being the focal point of an offense." This goes back to needing a change in our core. He's a great complimentary piece on a contending team.



You're letting your hate for Roy warp your view that over the last number of seasons, he's been a low end top center and a high end second line center on a bargain contract. That will net a nice return.


Last edited by gallagt01: 01-23-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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01-23-2012, 12:53 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
This is ridiculous. Yes, Derek Roy is a good hockey player. Yes, Drew Stafford is a good hockey player. They're having down years and both (Roy even more so) has worn out his welcome here. He's not a bad hockey player. Stop spewing this garbage.

We're trading Roy not because he's bad, but because it's time for a change. In the dressing room, on the ice, this core isn't getting it done.

A bit, yes.

Perhaps I should have said "Roy would be at his best not being the focal point of an offense." This goes back to needing a change in our core. He's a great complimentary piece on a contending team.

Seriously, your agenda against Roy has become sickening.
correction:
My position on Derek Roy has been vindicated

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01-23-2012, 12:55 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
correction:
My position on Derek Roy has been vindicated
And you all win the same thing.

+epeen

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