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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2012

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Old
01-22-2012, 01:55 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Montreal didn't even want McNeil at the draft so I doubt they would want him as the main piece coming back for a player as important to the team as Plekanec.
What about someone like C Marcus Kruger instead

Was great in SEL and is in his 1st year of NHL duty. Has been 4th line C , 3rd line C , 3rd Line W and now 2nd line C for Hawks

Kid has alot of talent and his defensive game is already good. Has 2nd line C potential. So his development is alot further along then McNeill's

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01-22-2012, 02:08 PM
  #152
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Hawks in need of firepower? Or is it just center? Pleky is very bad in PO btw

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01-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
Hawks in need of firepower? Or is it just center? Pleky is very bad in PO btw
Need a #2 C who is a good in both ends of ice

Also I dont think Plekanec is that terrible in playoffs

Either way playing between Sharp/Hossa on Hawks 2nd line should help anyone

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01-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Need a #2 C who is a good in both ends of ice

Also I dont think Plekanec is that terrible in playoffs

Either way playing between Sharp/Hossa on Hawks 2nd line should help anyone
Agreed, he's actually pretty good in the playoffs. He gets saddled with shutdown assignments (makes sense, since he's our best defensive center too), hence his offensive production takes a dip.

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01-23-2012, 08:25 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Gainey once landed the big fish, thankfully for us that deal was nixed by Bettman. Anyway those big deals for big names players work better in theory than they do in real life. I don't think we are in a position to make a big deal without getting completely screwed over in the long run.
What trade was that? and how do you know Bettman stopped the trade?

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01-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #156
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What trade was that? and how do you know Bettman stopped the trade?
At the 2009 draft Gainey traded Plekanec, Price and our 1st (Lenlanc) for Levavalier. The deal got nixed because of a dispute between the 2 owners and that Bettman felt that the loss of Lecavalier would make the attendance worst than it already was in Tampa.

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01-23-2012, 09:34 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Need a #2 C who is a good in both ends of ice

Also I dont think Plekanec is that terrible in playoffs

Either way playing between Sharp/Hossa on Hawks 2nd line should help anyone
Agreed.

While Gauthier may not have wanted McNeill last year. If the draft were to be done over I think he might have chosen him. Management have opened their eyes when it comes to the need for size and grit as well as talent.

If I were to move Pleks, I'd go big (as it signals a big shift for the team) pun totally intended

Plekanec + Gill + 3rd
for
Bickell + McNeill + Saad + 1st + Olesz

(Olesz is a throw in to get better assets and saves Chicago $$$...not cap as he is in minors. And if we are desperate, we could use him) And Chicago can afford this under their cap this season. after this year though, it's up to Stan B to figure out his own cap situation.

with Bickell in, we can move Moen out to Detroit for a 2nd

resign AK or move him for a top 6 prospect with size or a 1st

Now we have
2 x 1st rd picks
2x 2nd rd picks
McNeill
Saad
Bickell on 3rd line
about 6M in cap savings, added to the 3 from Cammy + 7.27 from Gomez being waived in the summer.

We get bigger, younger, grittier and more cost effective

Now draft Grigorenko/Galchenyuk with our 1st. The rest of the picks can net us some solid prospects and replenish our prospect pool.


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01-23-2012, 09:36 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
At the 2009 draft Gainey traded Plekanec, Price and our 1st (Lenlanc) for Levavalier. The deal got nixed because of a dispute between the 2 owners and that Bettman felt that the loss of Lecavalier would make the attendance worst than it already was in Tampa.
Didn't that deal include Subban too ? Or maybe it was Gorges.

Anyway it would have looked bad back then (except if you think 1 big name is what wins hockey games) and it looks absolutely terrible now as tend to happen with those tons of great underated pieces with upside for a single ( sometimes overrated as it was the case for Lecavalier) one on the downside kind of deal.

Especially when done when the team dealing for the big fish isn't a single big fish away from contention, those tend to look pretty bad in hindsight.

If you're lucky, it'll take a while for it to look bad...if you ain't so lucky... Colombus

Edit: I'll say I think the Mike Richards deal (talking about deal when you give multiple pieces for a single one, just to show I don't hate them all )made sense for LA but that's because:
1.Richards is better than Carter but LA gave less for him than Columbus did for Carter
2. I see Brayden Schenn's highest upside/very best case scenario as ... Mike Richards
3. LA was realistically near contention with that addition so the additionnal pieces given don't hurt that much.
4. If LA had been in Columbus's position where they can't realistically contend for at least 3-4 years that deal would have made a lot less sense for them althought they didn't give a high first in the deal so it still wouldn't have been as bad as Colombus.

Also: Colombus


Last edited by EllertoKostitsynGoal: 01-23-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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01-23-2012, 10:02 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
At the 2009 draft Gainey traded Plekanec, Price and our 1st (Lenlanc) for Levavalier. The deal got nixed because of a dispute between the 2 owners and that Bettman felt that the loss of Lecavalier would make the attendance worst than it already was in Tampa.
I don't think Price was ever involved, I heard Halak and/or Gorges though.

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01-23-2012, 10:03 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Agreed.

While Gauthier may not have wanted McNeill last year. If the draft were to be done over I think he might have chosen him. Management have opened their eyes when it comes to the need for size and grit as well as talent.

If I were to move Pleks, I'd go big (as it signals a big shift for the team) pun totally intended

Plekanec + Gill + 3rd
for
Bickell + McNeill + Saad + 1st + Olesz

(Olesz is a throw in to get better assets and saves Chicago $$$...not cap as he is in minors. And if we are desperate, we could use him) And Chicago can afford this under their cap this season. after this year though, it's up to Stan B to figure out his own cap situation.

with Bickell in, we can move Moen out to Detroit for a 2nd

resign AK or move him for a top 6 prospect with size or a 1st

Now we have
2 x 1st rd picks
2x 2nd rd picks
McNeill
Saad
Bickell on 3rd line
about 6M in cap savings, added to the 3 from Cammy + 7.27 from Gomez being waived in the summer.

We get bigger, younger, grittier and more cost effective

Now draft Grigorenko/Galchenyuk with our 1st. The rest of the picks can net us some solid prospects and replenish our prospect pool.
Any deal involving Plekanec would have to bring back a better center NOW.

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01-23-2012, 10:11 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Agreed.

While Gauthier may not have wanted McNeill last year. If the draft were to be done over I think he might have chosen him. Management have opened their eyes when it comes to the need for size and grit as well as talent.

If I were to move Pleks, I'd go big (as it signals a big shift for the team) pun totally intended

Plekanec + Gill + 3rd
for
Bickell + McNeill + Saad + 1st + Olesz

(Olesz is a throw in to get better assets and saves Chicago $$$...not cap as he is in minors. And if we are desperate, we could use him) And Chicago can afford this under their cap this season. after this year though, it's up to Stan B to figure out his own cap situation.

with Bickell in, we can move Moen out to Detroit for a 2nd

resign AK or move him for a top 6 prospect with size or a 1st

Now we have
2 x 1st rd picks
2x 2nd rd picks
McNeill
Saad
Bickell on 3rd line
about 6M in cap savings, added to the 3 from Cammy + 7.27 from Gomez being waived in the summer.

We get bigger, younger, grittier and more cost effective

Now draft Grigorenko/Galchenyuk with our 1st. The rest of the picks can net us some solid prospects and replenish our prospect pool.
Hmmm management not wanting Mcneil wasn't about them being scared of drafting big players . I mean they did draft a 6ft3 Dman with that pick no?
It was more about them not really liking his upside and I don't think McNeil has done a single thing this year to change that opinion, eyes opened to size and grit or not. I like Saad alot althought I don't see Chicago moving him.

Personnally, I have a hard time putting value on Plekanec, mainly because I probably overvalue him due to my love of that kind of two-way players mixed with a bit of attachement that comes with the fact that he is our second longest serving player all while being homegrown.

I don't see him as being on the market either, as I see management going for the retool more than the full blown rebuild but yeah, it's kind of hard for me to put a price tag on him. Especially since a lot of Plek's contributions don't actually show up on the score sheet.

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01-23-2012, 10:20 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think Price was ever involved, I heard Halak and/or Gorges though.
There were alot of rumors but I do think Price was involved and possibly Subban too. Anyway, just Plek and Leblanc would look stupid at this point all things considered (contracts and all)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Any deal involving Plekanec would have to bring back a better center NOW.
That's where it gets hard to gauge Plek's value. I'm not a fan of NOW trades when you aren't near contention, I wouldn't do say a Plek+Subban for Getzlaf swap since it makes no sense for the future but that's what it would take. So for me what we would need to add to Plekanec wouldn't be worth it in the long run so either you keep him (wich is what I think will happen) or you deal him in a rebuild type of trade.

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01-23-2012, 10:27 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
.....

That's where it gets hard to gauge Plek's value. I'm not a fan of NOW trades when you aren't near contention, I wouldn't do say a Plek+Subban for Getzlaf swap since it makes no sense for the future but that's what it would take. So for me what we would need to add to Plekanec wouldn't be worth it in the long run so either you keep him (wich is what I think will happen) or you deal him in a rebuild type of trade.
Agreed, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

We move him for the best picks/prospects we can get. Or we keep him. Getting a replacement for him (unless it's a cap dump from the other team involved) does nothing but lower the value of the return on the futures....being the whole reason you moved him in the 1st place.

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01-23-2012, 12:14 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
At the 2009 draft Gainey traded Plekanec, Price and our 1st (Lenlanc) for Levavalier. The deal got nixed because of a dispute between the 2 owners and that Bettman felt that the loss of Lecavalier would make the attendance worst than it already was in Tampa.
Bettman stopped trade because 1 owner didn't want to go thru with it and other did

You cant trade players when only 1/2 owners want to do it. It had nothing to do with TB's attendance

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01-23-2012, 12:18 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Agreed.
Plekanec + Gill + 3rd
for
Bickell + McNeill + Saad + 1st + Olesz

(Olesz is a throw in to get better assets and saves Chicago $$$...not cap as he is in minors. And if we are desperate, we could use him) And Chicago can afford this under their cap this season. after this year though, it's up to Stan B to figure out his own cap situation.
.
I never want to say a prospect is untouchable but Saad is basically that. The Kid has been praised by both Bowman's , Q and Hawk players. He got ELC and started year with Hawks because of his hard work and play in preseason and he has very realistic shot of being on Hawks at start of next season fulltime

Also dont know if Hawks would give up asset to move Olesz ,,, Wirtz has shown with Huet and Olesz this year he is willing to eat a bad contract (+ Olesz buyout is still reasonable if Hawks take that route in offseason)

I honestly think Kruger would make more sense for Habs instead of McNeill as he is in NHL right now and can offset Plekanec's D lost in trade as Kruger's D is pretty good already.

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01-23-2012, 12:25 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Any deal involving Plekanec would have to bring back a better center NOW.
Why?

I've said it before, but Tomas Plekanec is one of the Habs players I would try to move asap if I was PG. Doesn't mean i'd give him away, but I think he's got good value on the market (for now) but I'm not sure that will be true 1 or 2 years from now.

Some people think he's got a good contract, I think it's fine now...but it'll look like an albatross in the coming years

Sell high...Habs could get an important piece(s) for Plekanec right now.

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01-23-2012, 12:26 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Why?

I've said it before, but Tomas Plekanec is one of the Habs players I would try to move asap if I was PG. Doesn't mean i'd give him away, but I think he's got good value on the market (for now) but I'm not sure that will be true 1 or 2 years from now.

Some people think he's got a good contract, I think it's fine now...but it'll look like an albatross in the coming years

Sell high...Habs could get an important piece(s) for Plekanec right now.
Who are your #1 and #2 centres next season if Plekanec is traded and no centre comes back?

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01-23-2012, 12:29 PM
  #168
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Hmmm management not wanting Mcneil wasn't about them being scared of drafting big players . I mean they did draft a 6ft3 Dman with that pick no?
It was more about them not really liking his upside and I don't think McNeil has done a single thing this year to change that opinion, eyes opened to size and grit or not. I like Saad alot althought I don't see Chicago moving him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I never want to say a prospect is untouchable but Saad is basically that. The Kid has been praised by both Bowman's , Q and Hawk players. He got ELC and started year with Hawks because of his hard work and play in preseason and he has very realistic shot of being on Hawks at start of next season fulltime
Heh, I actually called that earlier. You guys were lucky to get him that late.
Like I said, personally, I find Plek's value hard to gauge. If he's moved I personally think it makes more sense to do a rebuild kind of trade than to upgrade on him considering what we would have to add to an upgrade wouldn't be worth it considering our current situation. I'm also totally biased in his favor so I can't be objective at all. If he's moved, althought I don't think he will be, it would make the most sense to go with someone management think has high long-term upside over someone who would help slightly more now but project has having lower upside. But I don't know Kruger well so I don't really know what he projects as.

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01-23-2012, 12:32 PM
  #169
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Who are your #1 and #2 centres next season if Plekanec is traded and no centre comes back?
Obviously they wouldn't dump Pleks and not have a centre come back. Eller and DD are just not good enough... but Pleks has been **** so far too.

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01-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #170
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Why?

I've said it before, but Tomas Plekanec is one of the Habs players I would try to move asap if I was PG. Doesn't mean i'd give him away, but I think he's got good value on the market (for now) but I'm not sure that will be true 1 or 2 years from now.

Some people think he's got a good contract, I think it's fine now...but it'll look like an albatross in the coming years

Sell high...Habs could get an important piece(s) for Plekanec right now.
I don't disagree but the basis of what you said but I don't think the Plek deal will end up looking like an albatross in a few years. Plekanec doesn't strike me as, I don't really have the right word but I guess the kind of player to have a definitive peak only to down fast. Most two-way players aren't, personnaly I find purely offensive one-way player's long deals more scary past a certain age (some players are exluded from this, more talking about a one-way comparable to Plek than a big star). Sure he may not get the same offensive production every year but he's usually a lock for 35-45 ES points while playing hard opposition.

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01-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Why?

I've said it before, but Tomas Plekanec is one of the Habs players I would try to move asap if I was PG. Doesn't mean i'd give him away, but I think he's got good value on the market (for now) but I'm not sure that will be true 1 or 2 years from now.

Some people think he's got a good contract, I think it's fine now...but it'll look like an albatross in the coming years

Sell high...Habs could get an important piece(s) for Plekanec right now.
Do you really expect that much of a decline from age 29 to 31? Plekanec has been extremely healthy throughout his career (77gp last season was his lowest since 2005-06). His career arc is relatively late for a forward (he didn't hit his prime until 27 years old). I don't see any reason to worry about his skills leaving in a hurry.

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01-23-2012, 01:18 PM
  #172
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Here is an interesting article about UFA's and their impact...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...dividends.html

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01-23-2012, 01:21 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Why?

I've said it before, but Tomas Plekanec is one of the Habs players I would try to move asap if I was PG. Doesn't mean i'd give him away, but I think he's got good value on the market (for now) but I'm not sure that will be true 1 or 2 years from now.

Some people think he's got a good contract, I think it's fine now...but it'll look like an albatross in the coming years

Sell high...Habs could get an important piece(s) for Plekanec right now.
why should we move him ASAP?

He is still in his prime and has been durable most of his career. He is a great skater, guys like that seem to have longer careers(Gartner Selanne Recchi etc).

He'll be turning 33 the last year of his contract, hardly an old geezer.

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01-23-2012, 01:30 PM
  #174
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Obviously they wouldn't dump Pleks and not have a centre come back. Eller and DD are just not good enough... but Pleks has been **** so far too.
I agree, but if you read 417's post, he doesn't.

What you said is exactly why i asked the question.

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01-23-2012, 02:01 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Who are your #1 and #2 centres next season if Plekanec is traded and no centre comes back?
who are our #1 and #2 centers this year?

The Habs do not have a #1 center on their roster...and I think DD gives the Habs way more bang for their buck than Plekanec as a #2 (not saying DD is better mind you).

eventually, the habs are going to have to acquire that long sought after #1 center...but to do so, they'll need to free up some money (hence why I'd advocate trading Plekanec) and they'll need to acquire some assets (Plekanec would bring back a good package IMO).

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