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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2012

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Old
01-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
who are our #1 and #2 centers this year?

The Habs do not have a #1 center on their roster...and I think DD gives the Habs way more bang for their buck than Plekanec as a #2 (not saying DD is better mind you).

eventually, the habs are going to have to acquire that long sought after #1 center...but to do so, they'll need to free up some money (hence why I'd advocate trading Plekanec) and they'll need to acquire some assets (Plekanec would bring back a good package IMO).
Not sure what you mean about "bang for the buck"?

DD is more suited for a #3 role, he is insulated with easier minutes plus playing with Cole and Pacioretty. Plekanec gets worse(less productive) linemates, plays against top lines and is a premier penality killer.

even some of the "true #1 centers" that peopkle dream about don't give the production that Plekanec does(everything added up) and cost a lot more...Staal for example.

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01-23-2012, 03:18 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Do you really expect that much of a decline from age 29 to 31? Plekanec has been extremely healthy throughout his career (77gp last season was his lowest since 2005-06). His career arc is relatively late for a forward (he didn't hit his prime until 27 years old). I don't see any reason to worry about his skills leaving in a hurry.
His value will never be as high as it is now...i'm not knocking him, I just don't think teams will be beating down the Habs door in 2 years to acquire a small, 2 way center making 5M per year for another 3-4 years for 40-50pts a year

Habs have to decide if they want too remain mediocre, or maybe take a step back to take 2 forward

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01-23-2012, 03:21 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
why should we move him ASAP?

He is still in his prime and has been durable most of his career. He is a great skater, guys like that seem to have longer careers(Gartner Selanne Recchi etc).

He'll be turning 33 the last year of his contract, hardly an old geezer.
I feel they should move him ASAP because he's got value and his stock is still high...what's wrong with that?

I'm not one of those Habs fans who thinks that we'll get better by trading players we don't want anymore or who are UFA's.

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01-23-2012, 03:23 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I agree, but if you read 417's post, he doesn't.

What you said is exactly why i asked the question.
I'm not really concerned with getting a center back, if they do great, if not...getting assets to eventually acquire a LEGIT #1 center is what I want.

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01-23-2012, 03:27 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not sure what you mean about "bang for the buck"?

DD is more suited for a #3 role, he is insulated with easier minutes plus playing with Cole and Pacioretty. Plekanec gets worse(less productive) linemates, plays against top lines and is a premier penality killer.

even some of the "true #1 centers" that peopkle dream about don't give the production that Plekanec does(everything added up) and cost a lot more...Staal for example.
what I mean by bang for buck is this...

3 years ago when Plekanec got 70pts making 2.5M per year, that was awesome...

Last year, 53pts after signing a 6yr 30M contract? Not so much...

This year, Desharnais is giving you the same production as Plekanec (though in Plek's defence, he doesn't have the same role, I realize that) but at a fraction of the price.

While I think Eller is developing nicely as a two way center an eventual replacement for Plekanec...

Right now is the time to move Plekanec, it doens't mean I'd give him away...but if a team today came at the Habs with a package of young players/pick(s) for Plekanec, i'd pull the trigger in a second.

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01-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #181
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I see lots of people posting about trading Plekanec. I would only trade him in a package for Eric Staal or for prospects and picks , preferably picks so then we can draft Grigorenko, the solution for our #1 centre problems. Grigorenko has the potential to become like another great Russian centre by the name of Evgeni Malkin... This is a great opportunity to get a #1 center we can build our team around. We already have a franchise goalie in Price, and a franchise dman in Subban. We also have Gorges. I think Price, Subban, Gorges and Grigorenko would be a good place to start a rebuild, similar to Edmonton with the likes of Nugent Hopkins, Hall and Eberle.

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01-23-2012, 03:40 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I feel they should move him ASAP because he's got value and his stock is still high...what's wrong with that?

I'm not one of those Habs fans who thinks that we'll get better by trading players we don't want anymore or who are UFA's.
So are Price Subban and Pacioretty. If we were talking about a 34 or 35 year old I would agree wholeheartedly but Plekanec has 3-4 years of "prime" left.

You also don't get better by trading your best players for picks and prospects.

Missing the playoffs 1 year is acceptable and considered a blip on the radar, if you miss them 2 or 3 years, all of a sudden losing is accepted and part of the culture, plus it gets hard to get good UFA's without huge overpayments. Say you trade Plekanec for picks and prospects, you severely weaken your forwards and top 6. You acn still be a top 5-6 teams with Plekanec as #1 and Eller and DD as co #2's. starting out with DD Eller and ??(LeBlanc?) as #3 is a sure way to miss the playoffs again.

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01-23-2012, 03:41 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
what I mean by bang for buck is this...

3 years ago when Plekanec got 70pts making 2.5M per year, that was awesome...

Last year, 53pts after signing a 6yr 30M contract? Not so much...

This year, Desharnais is giving you the same production as Plekanec (though in Plek's defence, he doesn't have the same role, I realize that) but at a fraction of the price.

While I think Eller is developing nicely as a two way center an eventual replacement for Plekanec...

Right now is the time to move Plekanec, it doens't mean I'd give him away...but if a team today came at the Habs with a package of young players/pick(s) for Plekanec, i'd pull the trigger in a second.
What are young players and picks going to do for you next year?

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01-23-2012, 03:45 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by noahhabib View Post
I see lots of people posting about trading Plekanec. I would only trade him in a package for Eric Staal or for prospects and picks , preferably picks so then we can draft Grigorenko, the solution for our #1 centre problems. Grigorenko has the potential to become like another great Russian centre by the name of Evgeni Malkin... This is a great opportunity to get a #1 center we can build our team around. We already have a franchise goalie in Price, and a franchise dman in Subban. We also have Gorges. I think Price, Subban, Gorges and Grigorenko would be a good place to start a rebuild, similar to Edmonton with the likes of Nugent Hopkins, Hall and Eberle.
1-what makes you think trading Plekanec will get us the #1 or #2 overall pick?

2-Grigorenko is not in the same class as Malkin, Grigorenko's upside would be Filatov's or Zherdev's. He has a chance to be a 70-80 point playmaking center with good progression. I see Yakupov having more upside but he is smaller, a Zach Parise type guy.

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01-23-2012, 04:06 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So are Price Subban and Pacioretty. If we were talking about a 34 or 35 year old I would agree wholeheartedly but Plekanec has 3-4 years of "prime" left.

You also don't get better by trading your best players for picks and prospects.

Missing the playoffs 1 year is acceptable and considered a blip on the radar, if you miss them 2 or 3 years, all of a sudden losing is accepted and part of the culture, plus it gets hard to get good UFA's without huge overpayments. Say you trade Plekanec for picks and prospects, you severely weaken your forwards and top 6. You acn still be a top 5-6 teams with Plekanec as #1 and Eller and DD as co #2's. starting out with DD Eller and ??(LeBlanc?) as #3 is a sure way to miss the playoffs again.
Do I really need to explain the difference between Price, Subban and Pacioretty and Tomas Plekanec?

To me, the first 3 ar ebuilding blocks, while Plekanec, albeit a solid player and very useful, is not.

Again, I'm personally tired of the Habs being a mediocre team...and I don't believe they'll get better by trading our undesirables or pending UFA's (Gomez, Kost, Moen, Gill, Campoli).

I'm more than prepared to see the Habs struggle for 1 or 2 years to see them become true contenders in the future...

Again, I don't advocate trading Plekanec cause he sucks...quite the opposite, I want to trade him because he has value and I think Tomas Plekanec is the kind of player this organization has in spades (2nd line player).

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01-23-2012, 04:08 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What are young players and picks going to do for you next year?
What's Plekanec doing for us this year?

When I look at the centers in the Habs organization...Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller, Bournival, etc, they're all the same types of players with similar potentials.

like it or not, but the Habs are going to need to get creative to acquire that legit #1 center...getting assets is one of those ways to do it

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01-23-2012, 04:20 PM
  #187
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Im actually terrified every time I see a Habs rumour right now because most of them have the Habs looking at trading for a big name like Parise and Derek Roy. I think we have many good players on the roster and the season weve had is largely due to JMs system crashing when the PP didnt produce, the defence being in dissaray because Markov has continued to be out and then all the turmoil at the top. With all the current players and having Markov or not having Markov but then having a top 4 D-man added, I think the team would do quite a bit better next year. For crying out loud we have 2 power forwards among 5 top 6 wingers, we are fast, we have size, this team is alright and can be retooled a bit, just need a summer to go by. Unfortunately, I fear that PG is going to make some huge move, that will be the wrong move, and while we will get quality back, we will give up way too much and set us back, yet again . Please .please just trade the UFAs ( except AK, if signed ) and pick up some extra draft picks, that is all.

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01-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
who are our #1 and #2 centers this year?

The Habs do not have a #1 center on their roster...and I think DD gives the Habs way more bang for their buck than Plekanec as a #2 (not saying DD is better mind you).

eventually, the habs are going to have to acquire that long sought after #1 center...but to do so, they'll need to free up some money (hence why I'd advocate trading Plekanec) and they'll need to acquire some assets (Plekanec would bring back a good package IMO).
Plekanec would be fine as a 1a/1b center or as a #2 center... and 5 million for his production does not prevent you from getting a top notch number 1.

The issue is, was, and will continue to be Scott Gomez's salary... until that is used on a true compliment to Pleks, we will be lacking a top 6 centre that is necessary.

If you get rid of Pleks and don't get a Centre as a return, you are now missing both a first and 2nd line center.

I like DD but he just isn't good enough as a 2nd liner, more suited to line 3.

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01-23-2012, 04:38 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Plekanec would be fine as a 1a/1b center or as a #2 center... and 5 million for his production does not prevent you from getting a top notch number 1.

The issue is, was, and will continue to be Scott Gomez's salary... until that is used on a true compliment to Pleks, we will be lacking a top 6 centre that is necessary.

If you get rid of Pleks and don't get a Centre as a return, you are now missing both a first and 2nd line center.

I like DD but he just isn't good enough as a 2nd liner, more suited to line 3.
Plekanec is not a #1 center...he'd be an ideal #2 center but at his salary, it's going to be diffiucult to slot him in behind a legit #1 center (unless the Habs draft a #1 center who is cost controlled for a few years).

Scott Gomez IMO, is a non issue...whether he's here or not, the Habs still need a true #1 center.

Also, I never said to 'get rid' of Plekanec...I wouldn't give him away, but i'd certainly look at options for trading him for a package of young roster player + draft pick. Yes, absolutely.

Personally, I'm not really concerned with who will be #1, #2, or #3 center for next year...even if the Habs don't make a single move between now and next year, who will be #1, #2 and #3 is still up for debate.

The Habs don't have a #1 center...they've got 2 #2's (Plekanec & Desharnais) and an emerging and ever improving #3 (Elller).

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01-23-2012, 04:57 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Do I really need to explain the difference between Price, Subban and Pacioretty and Tomas Plekanec?

To me, the first 3 ar ebuilding blocks, while Plekanec, albeit a solid player and very useful, is not.

Again, I'm personally tired of the Habs being a mediocre team...and I don't believe they'll get better by trading our undesirables or pending UFA's (Gomez, Kost, Moen, Gill, Campoli).

I'm more than prepared to see the Habs struggle for 1 or 2 years to see them become true contenders in the future...

Again, I don't advocate trading Plekanec cause he sucks...quite the opposite, I want to trade him because he has value and I think Tomas Plekanec is the kind of player this organization has in spades (2nd line player).
How is Pacioretty a building block and Plekanec isn't?

Plekanec's numbers the last 2 1/2 years are 1st line worthy, in fact they would put him around 20th in terms of centers, and it doesn't factor in defensive assignments and PK time.

Not sure where we see a player we "have in spades"...in a couple years Eller may be a #1b to Plekanec"s 1a but he isn't there just yet.

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01-23-2012, 04:59 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Plekanec would be fine as a 1a/1b center or as a #2 center... and 5 million for his production does not prevent you from getting a top notch number 1.

The issue is, was, and will continue to be Scott Gomez's salary... until that is used on a true compliment to Pleks, we will be lacking a top 6 centre that is necessary.

If you get rid of Pleks and don't get a Centre as a return, you are now missing both a first and 2nd line center.

I like DD but he just isn't good enough as a 2nd liner, more suited to line 3.
Gomez's salary will either be on another team's payroll or in another league next year I think.

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01-23-2012, 05:03 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Plekanec is not a #1 center...he'd be an ideal #2 center but at his salary, it's going to be diffiucult to slot him in behind a legit #1 center (unless the Habs draft a #1 center who is cost controlled for a few years).

Scott Gomez IMO, is a non issue...whether he's here or not, the Habs still need a true #1 center.

Also, I never said to 'get rid' of Plekanec...I wouldn't give him away, but i'd certainly look at options for trading him for a package of young roster player + draft pick. Yes, absolutely.

Personally, I'm not really concerned with who will be #1, #2, or #3 center for next year...even if the Habs don't make a single move between now and next year, who will be #1, #2 and #3 is still up for debate.

The Habs don't have a #1 center...they've got 2 #2's (Plekanec & Desharnais) and an emerging and ever improving #3 (Elller).
His production the last 2 1/2 years is at the #1 center level. Not the top 10, Getzlaf Datsyuk Malkin Crosby Toews etc level but the 2nd tier in the 15-25 range.

His biggest problem this year is a lack of #1 calibre wingers. Pacioretty and Cole have been the two best and have been with DD most of the year. Cammalleri had a crappy year and Gionta has been hurt most of the year. AK has played mostly with Eller.

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01-23-2012, 05:15 PM
  #193
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I could see the Wild making a run at Plekanec if they really want to gun for the playoffs.

Something around Phillips/Bulmer and a pick?

If we are not making a serious run for the playoffs, of course.

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01-23-2012, 05:43 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How is Pacioretty a building block and Plekanec isn't?

Plekanec's numbers the last 2 1/2 years are 1st line worthy, in fact they would put him around 20th in terms of centers, and it doesn't factor in defensive assignments and PK time.

Not sure where we see a player we "have in spades"...in a couple years Eller may be a #1b to Plekanec"s 1a but he isn't there just yet.
So Plekanec's 57 points last year are 1st line worthy? Come on man...you're kidding yourself if you think he's a #1 center.

Plekanec is and has always been miscast as a #1 center in Montreal...ideally, he's a very good #2. Which again, is very valueable around the NHL. That doesn't mean I would throw him away for the 1st package I received, but what's wrong with trading him?

No, I do not see Plekanec as a building block for the Habs...it doesn't mean he's garbage.

But again, whats wrong with trading a player with value? Why do people only want to propose deals that involve our undesirables and think they'll get important pieces?

I'm tired of the team wallowing in mediocrity and I think looking at what Plekanec may be worth on the trade market, could provide the Habs with an opportunity to address an organizational lacking (at center).

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01-23-2012, 05:48 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
His production the last 2 1/2 years is at the #1 center level. Not the top 10, Getzlaf Datsyuk Malkin Crosby Toews etc level but the 2nd tier in the 15-25 range.

His biggest problem this year is a lack of #1 calibre wingers. Pacioretty and Cole have been the two best and have been with DD most of the year. Cammalleri had a crappy year and Gionta has been hurt most of the year. AK has played mostly with Eller.
It's funny you mention those centers, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Malin, Crosby, Toews...I might be wrong, but havent' they all been on Cup winning teams?

Plekanec is very good player, solid at both ends (though you wouldn't know it this year), he's not a great playmaker nor scorer but does both of those things adequately. He's very smart and has a great sense of anticipation. But he's also not a player who commits physically during a hockey game, he tends to disapear when things get rough and his salary is higher than I'd like to see.

As for his performance this year...Plekanec had Cole on his RW to start the year and has had him play there a few times this year without success. He looked awful with Cammy & Kostitsyn as well.

Plekanec has not played well at all this year...not sure how you can say the opposite, and personally, I don't think he was very good last year either.

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01-23-2012, 07:23 PM
  #196
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Columbus might end up being a great trading partner for the Habs this season,it probably won't be until draft day.Gauthier has talked with most GM's in the league by now and knows where they sit as far as wants and needs.The weekend games did nothing to really clarify whether the Habs are buyer's or seller's,so I don't anticipate any major moves until summer now.Markov is still to lace up his skates,which will make the playoffs an easy bet,Markov in,Habs in.20 wins out of 34 games should be a small feat with a PP that hums along in the top five always when Markov is healthy.So throwing around the names of all the rest of the players has sure taken the steam off of Andrei.Here's hoping the team comes back in Feb.with the Little General on the backend ready for the homestretch.

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01-23-2012, 07:31 PM
  #197
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with the money problems NJ Devils are having, they may not be able to sign Parise. We should make a serious play for him, wether before the trade deadline or this summer.

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01-23-2012, 07:38 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Plekanec is not a #1 center...he'd be an ideal #2 center but at his salary, it's going to be diffiucult to slot him in behind a legit #1 center (unless the Habs draft a #1 center who is cost controlled for a few years).

Scott Gomez IMO, is a non issue...whether he's here or not, the Habs still need a true #1 center.

Also, I never said to 'get rid' of Plekanec...I wouldn't give him away, but i'd certainly look at options for trading him for a package of young roster player + draft pick. Yes, absolutely.

Personally, I'm not really concerned with who will be #1, #2, or #3 center for next year...even if the Habs don't make a single move between now and next year, who will be #1, #2 and #3 is still up for debate.

The Habs don't have a #1 center...they've got 2 #2's (Plekanec & Desharnais) and an emerging and ever improving #3 (Elller).
At 5 million its not difficult to slot him in as a #2 salary on a 64 million dollar salary cap. Thats foolish.

The fact that a 7.35 million dollar gomez is on our roster, and we have a 5.75 million dollar d man who isn't playing, and still have plenty of cap room, should be proof of that.

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01-23-2012, 07:51 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
At 5 million its not difficult to slot him in as a #2 salary on a 64 million dollar salary cap. Thats foolish.

The fact that a 7.35 million dollar gomez is on our roster, and we have a 5.75 million dollar d man who isn't playing, and still have plenty of cap room, should be proof of that.
that's fair...you're right, it wouldn't be that difficult to slot him in.

I just want to make it clear, i'm not saying they should give him away...quite the opposite, but the Habs would be foolish to not at least see what they could get for him

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01-23-2012, 08:01 PM
  #200
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I also think the habs have a

1b Centre in Plekanec
and
3 guys who are #3s in the NHL at this point in their career (DD, Eller, Gomez)

Eller might be a #2 one day, but isn't yet.

This lack of depth is apparent on defence too.... where we hae two top 4 Defenders (Subban, Gorges) and about 5-6 guys who should be 5/6/7 Ds.

Emelin might be a top 4 D, but isn't yet.

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