HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Dallas Stars
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gogo extended 4 years / 18.4 mil

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-23-2012, 11:08 PM
  #51
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 18,064
vCash: 157
I'm pretty sure if he didn't want to play in Dallas, he wouldn't have signed here period. Is it a good contract? No. But if he does start putting up 50-60 points per season and become the PPQB we need, this contract will look like a steal. It's a risk, sure, but we've got the money to do that now. I don't understand what everyone's upset about. I'm fine with anywhere from 9-11 million going to Benn and Goligoski. Even at the highest I'd see possible, Benn makes 6.4 million. Is 11 million for the best forward we've had since Modano and the best PMD since Zubov (out of 64.3 million...) really that unreasonable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
http://capgeek.com/leaders.php?type=...ion=D&limit=50

Might as well look at other D-men getting paid around the same.

Mark Giordano - 28 games played, 10 total points, $4.6mil salary
Steve Montador - 46 games played, 13 total points, $4.6mil salary
Luke Schenn - 46 games played, 13 total points, $4.6mil salary
John-Michael Liles - 34 games played, 21 total points, $4.55mil salary
Dennis Wideman - 47 games played, 33 total points, $4.5mil salary
Joni Pitkanen - 21 games played, 12 total points, $4.5mil salary
Anton Volchenkov - 40 games played, 6 total points, $4.25mil salary
Dustin Byfuglien - 35 games played, 24 total points, $4.25mil salary
Andrej Sekera - 40 games played, 8 total points, $4.25mil salary
Keith Ballard - 28 games played, 18 total points, $4.2mil salary
Mark Streit - 46 games played, 26 total points, $4.1mil salary
Tobias Enstrom - 28 games played, 18 total points, $4mil salary

Alex Goligoski - 36 games played, 15 total points, currently at $2.75mil salary. He's obviously not having a great season but neither is the rest of the team, but his numbers, at least offensively, are right up there with people making as much as we just signed him for. I didn't even bother checking people making more than him but I'm sure there are plenty of stinkers.

A lot of these guys bring more than just offense (and I mean a lot more) and have a more proven track record. These aren't great comparisons tbh.

LatvianTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2012, 11:12 PM
  #52
Elysian
@AdamBath
 
Elysian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 6,890
vCash: 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'm pretty sure if he didn't want to play in Dallas, he wouldn't have signed here period. Is it a good contract? No. But if he does start putting up 50-60 points per season and become the PPQB we need, this contract will look like a steal. It's a risk, sure, but we've got the money to do that now. I don't understand what everyone's upset about. I'm fine with anywhere from 9-11 million going to Benn and Goligoski. Even at the highest I'd see possible, Benn makes 6.4 million. Is 11 million for the best forward we've had since Modano and the best PMD since Zubov (out of 64.3 million...) really that unreasonable?





A lot of these guys bring more than just offense (and I mean a lot more) and have a more proven track record. These aren't great comparisons tbh.
I can't really comment on that, I don't know a lot of those guys.

Elysian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2012, 11:19 PM
  #53
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 18,064
vCash: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I can't really comment on that, I don't know a lot of those guys.
Yea, some of them you are right about (Giordano, Ballard, etc) but some aren't paid for any offense at all (Schenn, Volchenkov, etc.).

It is an interesting list though. Gorges is one guy who I'd really look at for a comparison.

LatvianTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 12:07 AM
  #54
Caseman
Registered User
 
Caseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
So we're supposed to pay a premium for our own RFAs because the front office realized, 19 years on, they are in Texas?
Yes. If the incentive to stay is neither the atmosphere (the AAC crowds SUCK) nor being competitive for post-season success (drought likely to continue), then logically the next step would be a bump in the paycheck.

Is this an ideal contract? No... realistic? Yeah...

Caseman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 12:12 AM
  #55
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,010
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I guess I just don't feel like this is a wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
-Goligoski has already shown more than Daley. Deserves the heftier paycheque, IMO. Daley's certainly improved, though.
Were eyebrows not raised around here when Daley's contract was announced, both in term and annual salary? That being the case, using Daley's contract as a benchmark for Goligoski's is a tad illogical. This is what I meant by two wrongs not making a right. Throw Robidas' in the mix too as far as setting an internal standard of value for defensemen...defensemen who all collectively contribute to one of the worst D-corps in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I think he's got all the tools to be that #1 blueliner, and now we get a chance to watch him do just that over the next few years.
Do you mean top pairing or #1 on the depth chart? I definitely disagree with the latter and would have to see some strong chemistry with a very, very solid defenseman to consider the former.

The other day when I was airing my grievances on Goligoski someone said that I'm missing Zubov (which is absolutely true) but conversely I think too many people here have forgotten what a truly solid D-corps looks like. There are some very lax standards for defensemen around here.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 12:18 AM
  #56
Cin
Eurosnob.
 
Cin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Country: Thailand
Posts: 7,136
vCash: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I think too many people here have forgotten what a truly solid D-corps looks like. There are some very lax standards for defensemen around here.
Exactly.

Cin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 12:25 AM
  #57
Bennrocks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post

The other day when I was airing my grievances on Goligoski someone said that I'm missing Zubov (which is absolutely true) but conversely I think too many people here have forgotten what a truly solid D-corps looks like. There are some very lax standards for defensemen around here.
I think goligoski is at worst an excellent #3 and at best a borderline #1, he isn't good enough defensively to be a Weber/Chara/Letang type but is decent enough and when he is on his game he is Very good offensively and does alot to do the possession/transition game even when he is not scoring

Bennrocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 12:32 AM
  #58
piqued
Global Moderator
shift
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,805
vCash: 27750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
The one area that's really dragging him down is his production on the PP which has been mediocre (by far the worst among all Stars regulars on the PP) but that's heavily influenced by the fact that the team is only shooting 8% while he's on the ice on the man advantage (lowest among all regulars) as opposed to something in the 11-13% range which is more normal for the powerplay. The Stars PP is also just horrible in the first place at generating anything which doesn't help the stat line of a defenceman, who are much more dependant on PP production to rack up points than forwards are.
I have a bit of a problem with this. You almost make it sound like Goligoski is a victim of the PP, when in truth it's Goligoski's job to make the PP good. So shooting percentages are low, maybe there's some bad luck involved. But maybe also, as the PPQB, he's not generating enough high-quality scoring chances that you would expect to see a higher shooting percentage on. I mean, this is the guy that we went out and got whose calling card was offense and his work on the man advantage. And we have the 27th ranked PP and he has 6 PP points.

piqued is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 01:24 AM
  #59
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,010
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
I have a bit of a problem with this. You almost make it sound like Goligoski is a victim of the PP, when in truth it's Goligoski's job to make the PP good. So shooting percentages are low, maybe there's some bad luck involved. But maybe also, as the PPQB, he's not generating enough high-quality scoring chances that you would expect to see a higher shooting percentage on. I mean, this is the guy that we went out and got whose calling card was offense and his work on the man advantage. And we have the 27th ranked PP and he has 6 PP points.
******* right. His work on the PP hasn't even really been talked about to this point in this thread and it warrants discussion. He doesn't get a pass in my book because there are things that he flat out doesn't do that would create more/better scoring chances, namely not moving his feet enough to change the point of attack. His big selling point is his skating; that doesn't have to be just a tool for transition offense. He's far too stationary for someone with his level of puckhandling. He's not great with the puck, not bad by any stretch, but it's not an elite attribute of his. To be effective he needs to do most things quickly to put the opposition on their heels. He doesn't do that nearly often enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennrocks View Post
I think goligoski is at worst an excellent #3 and at best a borderline #1, he isn't good enough defensively to be a Weber/Chara/Letang type but is decent enough and when he is on his game he is Very good offensively and does alot to do the possession/transition game even when he is not scoring
True, there are very few guys who are all-world like those players you mention. Not every team has a Weber or Chara but the good ones have a select one or two who are on the ice in crunch time no matter if their team is up or down by a goal. Modano was that kind of player in his prime. Zubov was that kind of player. Benn looks like that kind of player. Goligoski would have to get miles better in a number of areas to become a "#1 defenseman."

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 01:53 AM
  #60
Captain Awesome
Registered User
 
Captain Awesome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,994
vCash: 500
On another note, I really miss Zubov. I think he was my favorite player to watch bar none. I wish we had signed him instead of having him bail for the KHL, what a brilliant move that was at the time.

Captain Awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 02:45 AM
  #61
Bennrocks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
On another note, I really miss Zubov. I think he was my favorite player to watch bar none. I wish we had signed him instead of having him bail for the KHL, what a brilliant move that was at the time.
Yeah Zubie was definetly my favorite player too... didn't he only play one season after we let him go though?

Bennrocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 04:37 AM
  #62
Captain Awesome
Registered User
 
Captain Awesome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,994
vCash: 500
According to hockey db that is correct. He put up 10-32-42 in 53 games in the KHL. Good numbers for an old man.

Captain Awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 04:51 AM
  #63
Bennrocks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
According to hockey db that is correct. He put up 10-32-42 in 53 games in the KHL. Good numbers for a magical old man.
Fixed

Bennrocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 05:44 AM
  #64
Modo
Global Moderator
Mo'Benn
 
Modo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,663
vCash: 50
He probably smoked non-filtered Russian cigarettes between every period, too.

Zubie was awesome.

__________________
If you're telekinetic and you know it, clap my hands!
Modo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 08:50 AM
  #65
Sony Eriksson*
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N. Dallas/NYC
Country: Faroe Islands
Posts: 13,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'm pretty sure if he didn't want to play in Dallas, he wouldn't have signed here period. Is it a good contract? No. But if he does start putting up 50-60 points per season and become the PPQB we need, this contract will look like a steal. It's a risk, sure, but we've got the money to do that now. I don't understand what everyone's upset about. I'm fine with anywhere from 9-11 million going to Benn and Goligoski. Even at the highest I'd see possible, Benn makes 6.4 million. Is 11 million for the best forward we've had since Modano and the best PMD since Zubov (out of 64.3 million...) really that unreasonable?



A lot of these guys bring more than just offense (and I mean a lot more) and have a more proven track record. These aren't great comparisons tbh.

If Schenn is making $4.6 million a year then there is no reason in hell Gogo shouldn't.

Sony Eriksson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 08:55 AM
  #66
Alistar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Azores
Posts: 8,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
I have a bit of a problem with this. You almost make it sound like Goligoski is a victim of the PP, when in truth it's Goligoski's job to make the PP good. So shooting percentages are low, maybe there's some bad luck involved. But maybe also, as the PPQB, he's not generating enough high-quality scoring chances that you would expect to see a higher shooting percentage on. I mean, this is the guy that we went out and got whose calling card was offense and his work on the man advantage. And we have the 27th ranked PP and he has 6 PP points.
Goligoski's production on the PP has always been good though, he was our best point producer on it last year and had he remained on Pittsburgh he would have been their best. Surely he's not performed quite up to task this year, but I'd suggest that there is not a single player on the Stars who has done a good job on the PP. I really question how much time and space Goligoski has to actually make anything happen when they pass it around so slowly out there and nobody is moving their feet.

I'm much more willing to bet that if the Stars put a half decent system in place (and some half decent players around him) that Goligoski would shine on the PP again rather than the idea that he's somehow lost all his previous ability on the man advantage in the space of one off-season.

Alistar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 08:56 AM
  #67
Dallasman
Registered User
 
Dallasman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
You need offense to go with your defense as well and I think Goligoski will be that complement to our defensive defensemen.
His injury this year has hurt his productivity obviously but I think he'll be a solid player for us in the coming years.

I'm not as upset as some are by this contract. Sometimes you do need to pay a little more to get the players that you want to stay here. It's the name of the game in the NHL.

And for the record, I don't think we made an overpayment on this contract for him. I think he got paid what he'd get in the UFA market in a few years anyways.

Dallasman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 08:57 AM
  #68
batmansuncle
Registered User
 
batmansuncle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,095
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony Eriksson View Post
If Schenn is making $4.6 million a year then there is no reason in hell Gogo shouldn't.
Different playing styles. Hell those two would make a good d pairing lol

I like the Gogo signing. Could have been a bit lower, but it's not horrible. We need to get rid of robidas, souray, and pardy. Pair Gogo with a good stay home d man.

batmansuncle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 09:52 AM
  #69
Elysian
@AdamBath
 
Elysian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 6,890
vCash: 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
Goligoski's production on the PP has always been good though, he was our best point producer on it last year and had he remained on Pittsburgh he would have been their best. Surely he's not performed quite up to task this year, but I'd suggest that there is not a single player on the Stars who has done a good job on the PP. I really question how much time and space Goligoski has to actually make anything happen when they pass it around so slowly out there and nobody is moving their feet.

I'm much more willing to bet that if the Stars put a half decent system in place (and some half decent players around him) that Goligoski would shine on the PP again rather than the idea that he's somehow lost all his previous ability on the man advantage in the space of one off-season.
Nailed it

Elysian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 10:32 AM
  #70
piqued
Global Moderator
shift
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,805
vCash: 27750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
I'm much more willing to bet that if the Stars put a half decent system in place (and some half decent players around him) that Goligoski would shine on the PP again rather than the idea that he's somehow lost all his previous ability on the man advantage in the space of one off-season.
Right... but what bothers me about this deal is that it's like this season hasn't even happened according to the Stars. It's like they're weighting the most recent information about the player as the least important. This contract could've been drawn up the day of the trade, titled "Our Hopes and Dreams for Alex Goligoski" and filed away in a desk drawer. 4.6 is a number that's only palatable if you believe that the Goligoski we saw for 20 games last year under run 'n gun Crawford was what we can expect to see in the future.

piqued is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 11:40 AM
  #71
Hull Fan
Czech Stop
 
Hull Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Country: Albania
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
I hoping it's the Stars attempting to meet the salary cap for when they jettison Robidas, Morrow, Sourey, Grossman and the like. Is Goligoski worth this right now? Probably not but at the same time an extra 600k per year isn't going to handicap a team 10 million under the cap. What it does do though is add to the bottom line and allow JN to move Morrow or Robidas and not struggle just to reach the floor.

Buying out UFA years for a guy on a middling team was going to be expensive. This contract isn't ideal but now you've got it out of the way and can talk to Benn this offseason and figure out how to overhaul this defense. It's got to be abundantly clear to Gagliardi that this team as currently constructed is not a winner. Lock up the "core" and let's get on to turning over the rest.

Hull Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 12:44 PM
  #72
Elysian
@AdamBath
 
Elysian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 6,890
vCash: 5355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I hoping it's the Stars attempting to meet the salary cap for when they jettison Robidas, Morrow, Sourey, Grossman and the like. Is Goligoski worth this right now? Probably not but at the same time an extra 600k per year isn't going to handicap a team 10 million under the cap. What it does do though is add to the bottom line and allow JN to move Morrow or Robidas and not struggle just to reach the floor.

Buying out UFA years for a guy on a middling team was going to be expensive. This contract isn't ideal but now you've got it out of the way and can talk to Benn this offseason and figure out how to overhaul this defense. It's got to be abundantly clear to Gagliardi that this team as currently constructed is not a winner. Lock up the "core" and let's get on to turning over the rest.
That's a good point I think.

Elysian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 02:38 PM
  #73
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,010
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
Goligoski's production on the PP has always been good though, he was our best point producer on it last year and had he remained on Pittsburgh he would have been their best. Surely he's not performed quite up to task this year, but I'd suggest that there is not a single player on the Stars who has done a good job on the PP. I really question how much time and space Goligoski has to actually make anything happen when they pass it around so slowly out there and nobody is moving their feet.

I'm much more willing to bet that if the Stars put a half decent system in place (and some half decent players around him) that Goligoski would shine on the PP again rather than the idea that he's somehow lost all his previous ability on the man advantage in the space of one off-season.
Nobody can argue that Goligoski played balls out after the trade last year. He was a shot in the arm and looked really good creating offense. But there is a problem with putting too much stock into what could have amounted to a hot streak. I see a lot of people saying things like "when he gets back to his form from last year" and I have a problem with that. That's like saying Benn needs to get back to the form he showed while Richards was injured. Now, on an everyday basis Benn is a hell of a lot closer to that form than Goligoski is to his time post-trade form of a year ago. Still, both may prove to be unlikely to happen on a consistent basis.

You noted the problem that nobody on the PP moves their feet. Neither does Goligoski though. It's not that he can't be a solid offensive player on the PP but when I watch him he lacks that take charge identity that most PP QB's have. I don't know if that can be learned because it seems to be more of a result of one's personality. Guys like Lubo Visnovsky know what the hell it is they want to do out there and they get players to dance with them. Goligoski hasn't shown that he can get others on the PP to read his intentions and react accordingly. The idea that you need an alpha dog to run a PP is part of my reasoning for wanting to get an extended look at Benn on the point.

At the end of the day this isn't a terrible contract. It's definitely a win for the player though. Here's to hoping management can put more competitive pieces around him.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 05:15 PM
  #74
Rune Forumwalker
Registered User
 
Rune Forumwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
On another note, I really miss Zubov. I think he was my favorite player to watch bar none. I wish we had signed him instead of having him bail for the KHL, what a brilliant move that was at the time.
I'm not sure it wasn't Zubov's wish to go to Russia from the very beginning during that offseason. Just seems to me how everything shook out that that is what he wanted to do from the start, and thusly the team was unfairly blamed for letting him walk.

Rune Forumwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 05:19 PM
  #75
txomisc
Registered User
 
txomisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 8,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
I'm not sure it wasn't Zubov's wish to go to Russia from the very beginning during that offseason. Just seems to me how everything shook out that that is what he wanted to do from the start, and thusly the team was unfairly blamed for letting him walk.
I also had that impression. It was either that, imo, or it was that he was offended that the team didn't want to offer him a big contract despite his obvious injury risk.

txomisc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.