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Won't be easy replacing Carle if he leaves

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01-24-2012, 10:48 AM
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MrHockey1982
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Won't be easy replacing Carle if he leaves

http://www.courierpostonline.com/art...ws|text|Sports

Quote:
Paul Martin, no overly special defenseman, used free agency two summers ago to land $25 million over five years from Pittsburgh. Montreal committed $23.4 million over six seasons three weeks ago to prevent solid-but-not-great blueliner Josh Gorges from becoming unrestricted this coming summer.

Carle is better than Martin and Georges. I could go on and on throwing out examples of average defensemen getting long deals for big money.

Yeah, I know you’d rather sign Ryan Suter. Word is Flyers management loves the Nashville Preds’ 1A defenseman, who also will be unrestricted this summer, but he’ll probably get at least $7.5 million per from a club that has a bunch more available cap space.

If the Flyers lose Carle and don’t get Suter, then who’s replacing him? I wasn’t blown away looking over the list of upcoming unrestricted FAs. Detroit Red Wings legend Nicklas Lidstrom isn’t coming here next year when he’s 42 and chances are Suter probably isn’t either.
Not sure how I feel about this. Don't like the price tag if it's true.

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01-24-2012, 10:52 AM
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Carle is not better than Coburn. If he wants anything more than $4M per, I think we should let him walk.

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01-24-2012, 10:53 AM
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I think I look at all the options before I sign Carle to a $5 mil a year deal. Not saying I wouldn't pay it, but if there are others for that price or cheaper, I'd look elsewhere. If he wants to sign for like $4-$4.5 I'd do it, but if he wants more I'd see what else is out there first.

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01-24-2012, 10:57 AM
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I don't know that suter gets that money, alot of the teams that had crazy contracts last summer to get the floor, don't have the income to take on more. The moneymaking teams are mostly near the cap.

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01-24-2012, 11:07 AM
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Goligoski just got around 4.5, probably a good comparable to Carle

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01-24-2012, 11:12 AM
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Carle is going well over 5. If he only wants 4 Holmgren will be all over that.

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01-24-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Carle is going well over 5. If he only wants 4 Holmgren will be all over that.
Agreed. If he wants 5+ you have to let him walk

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01-24-2012, 11:28 AM
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From an organizational point of view re-signing Carle is a must.

If they can get him for less than 4.8M per you keep him, if its more than that you can still use him in a trade package. Just don't grant him a NMC. There are plenty of ****** franchises out there that will be talking trade even if he is locked up for close to 6M per just for the fact that he is locked up and still young and playing big minutes and producing a good number of points.

They better not have to find replacements for both Carle and Pronger next year. It's difficult to get 1 UFA defenseman with upside signed without overpaying, but 2? No way...


Last edited by dats81: 01-24-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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01-24-2012, 11:32 AM
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I agree with this article in the sense of if you don't get one of the Nashville boys, is there really an upgrade out there over Carle?

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01-24-2012, 11:34 AM
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Move him now to Detroit for 1st and 3rd and prospect.

Get Sutton or Gill or Kubina. Two of those will work Kubina and Gill will cost 2nd and 3rd plus a prospect.

Flyers must draft at least twice in 1st round. We can not afford Carle because we already paying Coburn 4.5M. No freaking idea why.

Timonen Coburn
Gill Gus
Kubina Mesz
Bourdon #7


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01-24-2012, 11:35 AM
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http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...D&fa_type_id=2

This is the list of defensemen that are free agents. Aside from Lidstrom, who is not going to leave Detroit unless he retires, and Suter, Carle is the best name on this list. He's going to get a huge contract. I might be conservative using 5. A team like Minnesota, who are not only desperate for an offensive defenseman, but desperate period, are going to come too hard for the Flyers to match.

They're clearly going after Weber or Suter, no secrets about that. If they trade for Gleason, it may be more prudent to keep him around.

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01-24-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I agree with this article in the sense of if you don't get one of the Nashville boys, is there really an upgrade out there over Carle?
I think the real question is, do you overpay for Carle's offensive play or spend 1-2 mill less and get a defender that might or might not play as well.

Some UFA's out there are:

Kubina
Gleason
Boychuk
Garrison (might be a 1 year wonder, but dude looks solid)


Others here: http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...D&fa_type_id=2 (EDIT: didnt see GKJ post. Oh well lol)


Yea, I do agree, that if you want the offensive ability, Carle is the best one out there besides Suter. But this is NOT a good thing. This means that teams that want an offensive defender will be willing to pay 6 mil or so for Carle. Honestly, I dont think he is close to worth it. Now if he signs for around the same money as Coburn, I'll be fine with that. Im not a hater of his or a fanboy, but I do agree that the other pickings are slim.

I think it is time to see if they think Gustafsson or even Bourdon are in their future or not. Gus is 23, and Bourdon is 22. It's becoming now or not with this team for them.

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01-24-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Move him now to Detroit for 1st and 3rd and prospect.

Get Sutton or Gill or Kubina. Two of those will work.

Flyers must draft at least twice in 1st round. We can not afford Carle because we already paying Coburn 4.5M. No freaking idea why.

Timonen Coburn
Gill Gus
Kubina Mesz

Bourdon #7
Reasonable choices but no bold moves. Not sure if this means an improvement over what we've got at all.

Gill and Kubina would both be 35+ contracts next year.

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01-24-2012, 11:49 AM
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If we don't re-sign him, someone is going to overpay Carle simply bc this year's crop of UFA defenseman is weak

If we do re-sign him, I wouldnt give him more than Coburn

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01-24-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think the real question is, do you overpay for Carle's offensive play or spend 1-2 mill less and get a defender that might or might not play as well.

Some UFA's out there are:

Kubina
Gleason
Boychuk
Garrison (might be a 1 year wonder, but dude looks solid)


Others here: http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...D&fa_type_id=2 (EDIT: didnt see GKJ post. Oh well lol)


Yea, I do agree, that if you want the offensive ability, Carle is the best one out there besides Suter. But this is NOT a good thing. This means that teams that want an offensive defender will be willing to pay 6 mil or so for Carle. Honestly, I dont think he is close to worth it. Now if he signs for around the same money as Coburn, I'll be fine with that. Im not a hater of his or a fanboy, but I do agree that the other pickings are slim.

I think it is time to see if they think Gustafsson or even Bourdon are in their future or not. Gus is 23, and Bourdon is 22. It's becoming now or not with this team for them.
The point is, that you quite possibly lose, as others have said, two of our top4 guys in Carle and Pronger. Not only top4 guys but our best pairing in the last few years.
I look at the D without Carle and have to wonder where's the offense going to come from?
Timonen will be there, yes. But for how long?
Gustaffson can do the job, but he's far from Carle's level and I'd have a problem with putting him into such a vital role to early.

Worst case scenario is that we lose Carle and don't get Suter.

Timonen-Coburn
Mez-Gustaffson
Bourdon-Lilja/FA

Even if you add a guy like Gleason (who won't be cheap either), Gill or someone like that, you don't get offense from those guys.
This would be horrible.

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01-24-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Reasonable choices but no bold moves. Not sure if this means an improvement over what we've got at all.

Gill and Kubina would both be 35+ contracts next year.
I like Kubina, and I think a 2 year deal would be fine. Gil on the otherhand seems to be digressing abit. He doesnt log over 20 minutes anymore, more around the 15 minute mark. Age seems to be catching up. Rather go for Gleason or Garrison over him.

Timonen-Coburn
Garrison-Gustafsson
Meszaros-Kubina

I think Garrison could play well with Gustafsson. Garrison is known as a two way guy, and Florida fans are saying he wants around 3.5 mil and they might not pay him. If not Garrison, Gleason is fine also.

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01-24-2012, 11:59 AM
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Even if you add a guy like Gleason (who won't be cheap either), Gill or someone like that, you don't get offense from those guys.
This would be horrible.
That's ok. Timonen, Coburn and Mesz just going to have to carry a little more. Coburn used to be 30pts d-men before he took puck in the face against Pens in playoffs.

If Flyers can get Kubina it would be huge. He can really unload on PP. Right handed shot too

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01-24-2012, 12:02 PM
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Be careful using the 30-point threshold. That was the justification for the disaster known as Randy Jones.

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01-24-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
The point is, that you quite possibly lose, as others have said, two of our top4 guys in Carle and Pronger. Not only top4 guys but our best pairing in the last few years.
I look at the D without Carle and have to wonder where's the offense going to come from?
Timonen will be there, yes. But for how long?
Gustaffson can do the job, but he's far from Carle's level and I'd have a problem with putting him into such a vital role to early.

Worst case scenario is that we lose Carle and don't get Suter.

Timonen-Coburn
Mez-Gustaffson
Bourdon-Lilja/FA

Even if you add a guy like Gleason (who won't be cheap either), Gill or someone like that, you don't get offense from those guys.
This would be horrible.
Honestly, if your just looking for a pure offensive d-man, there are a few in the UFA. Kubina has some offensive ability. Garrison seems to be able to put up points also. There are also guys like Foster, etc etc, who have no defensive ablilty but offensive.
Like I said, if they feel Gustafsson can provide the offense then you can let Carle walk. We havent seen Gustafsson produce points yet, but overall he has been very good. Few mistakes, and 90% of his passes hit the mark. Also he pick pockets forwards tremendously (alot better than I thought he could). If you think our prospects cant get the job done, you then either look for a replacement or pay Carle 6m a year just for his offense.

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01-24-2012, 12:04 PM
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i must be the only one here, thats actualy hoping Carle leaves..

i'd risk getting someone else in his position and not lose a seconds sleep over it.

Carle has to many brain farts moments on the ice, to even consider giving him anything like 4-5M/year..

if thats what the market will bare, let some other team pay/have him.

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01-24-2012, 12:05 PM
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Maybe If homer feels like he won't get who he wants in free agency, he targets another struggling d-man that was a former high pick in a bad situation? Just like Mez?

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01-24-2012, 12:08 PM
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I am really struggling to understand the logic here. With both the team and the fan base.

This team struggles with inconsistency defensively and the argument is that the defense really misses Pronger. But with Carle at 4.5mm, the money on D spent without Pronger would be among the highest in the league (too lazy to check all). This goes on top of the high paid goalie we now have.

Do we really have to pay up for an slightly above average defenseman? I honestly think Gus will be as good as Carle in two years. (I admit I have always hated Carle so I am biased).

Money spent on top four assuming Carle gets 4.5mm:

Flyers (no Pronger): 19.33
Chicago: 17.59
Detroit (with Lidstrom at 6.2 again): 16.2
Boston: 14.66
Rags: 9.85
Pens: 16.25
Nucks: 16.55

Nashville with 15mm on Weber and Suter would still be lower than the Flyers with their young D.

Yes I know we need more young up and coming D, but Bourdon and Gus are decent relative to their cap hit.

Seems like everything with top paid top 4 D who can be inconsistent and a top paid goalie who has been inconsistent is completely assbackwards.

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01-24-2012, 12:23 PM
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I have no problem making Gus that guy, but I'd like him to show something before we name him Carle's replacement. He's only played 13 games. Oskars Bartulis looked good after 10 games, got a contract extension, and he's in the AHL. Shouldn't be, but he is.

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01-24-2012, 12:31 PM
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Give Carle 3 mil per for 2 years. Then when he's a lot better in two years he can get a real contract.

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01-24-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
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I have no problem making Gus that guy, but I'd like him to show something before we name him Carle's replacement. He's only played 13 games. Oskars Bartulis looked good after 10 games, got a contract extension, and he's in the AHL. Shouldn't be, but he is.
Luckily there are still some games left, so he will have time. But when the summer comes, I do think they need to make a decision.

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