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01-23-2012, 10:12 PM
  #1
Randall Ritchey
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Stl & tbl

Throwing this out there to see how both sides feel about it. I was talking with my brother tonight and we both thought it could be an interesting deal, pending the Blues ownership worries end with Tom Stillman purchasing the club.

However there value could be off and I'm genuinely curious on the thoughts of Tampa and St. Louis fans here.

St. Louis would receive center, Vincent Lecavalier while the Lightning would get back center Patrik Berglund, goaltender Ben Bishop, a 2nd round pick, and another conditional pick (a third) if Bishop doesn't sign in Tampa.

Lecavalier comes in and gives the Blues a number one center, letting Backes slide down to the second line, going up against the teams top offensive lines and effectively shutting them down.

Berglund gives Tampa another top six center who needs a change of scenery (in my opinion). He's got the skill, we've seen it. He's got speed, power, and a great shot, he just needs to utilize it more effectively.

Bishop gives Tampa a solid option in net. Many believe he's ready for NHL action now, and I fully agree, but with Elliott and Halak, he's not going to get that her in St. Louis.

Then a 2nd (and a conditional 3rd) help even out the value here as Vinny is more proven, and the Blues, need to add the pick(s).

The Blues forward core (healthy) could look like this.....

David Perron - Vincent Lecavalier - Chris Stewart
Andy McDonald - David Backes - TJ Oshie
Alex Steen - Jason Arnott - Matt D'Agostini
Vladimir Sobotka - Scott Nichol - Jamie Langenbrunner
BJ Crombeen/Chris Porter/Ryan Reaves


Meanwhile, Tampa's forward core (potentially) could mirror this....

Steve Downie - Steven Stamkos - Martin St. Louis
Ryan Malone - Patrik Berglund - Teddy Purcell
Ryan Shannon - Dominic Moore - Brett Connolly
Nate Thompson - Tom Pyatt - Adam Hall
P.C. Labrie/Dana Tyrell/JT Wyman

Not to mention getting Bishop in the net as well.



Let me know if it is close at all, who would need to add, and what you all think about it. Again, I'm curious and I think it could potentially be looked at?

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:18 PM
  #2
SLAPSHOT723
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I don't think Bishop is that great, he's not going to be a "goalie of the future" for the Lightning if they acquire him. I think a package of Berglund and Halak plus picks for Lecavalier and something of value (like Namestnikov) is more what Tampa would want.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:23 PM
  #3
Randall Ritchey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
I don't think Bishop is that great, he's not going to be a "goalie of the future" for the Lightning if they acquire him. I think a package of Berglund and Halak plus picks for Lecavalier and something of value (like Namestnikov) is more what Tampa would want.
Now that is overpayment by the Blues there. Basically replacing Bishop with Halak and just adding Namestnikov for the Bolts isn't near enough to get Jaro back in the deal.

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01-23-2012, 10:26 PM
  #4
Babych 44
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Langenbrunner and a 3rd

Downie and R Shannon

St Louis benefits from a great penalty killer and they get a guy like Downie who brings his blue collar lunch pain attitude every game.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:27 PM
  #5
SLAPSHOT723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
Now that is overpayment by the Blues there. Basically replacing Bishop with Halak and just adding Namestnikov for the Bolts isn't near enough to get Jaro back in the deal.
While I know the Blues love having an Elliott/Halak tandem for internal competition, you also get a big bargaining chip by having two very good starting goaltenders. I don't think Elliott is a flop, he's the real deal. I could be undervaluing Halak and overvaluing Lecavalier, I'm not sure.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:28 PM
  #6
Doctor Drej
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My lord.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:36 PM
  #7
Randall Ritchey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutland Drug Lord View Post
Langenbrunner and a 3rd

Downie and R Shannon

St Louis benefits from a great penalty killer and they get a guy like Downie who brings his blue collar lunch pain attitude every game.
No way in hell Tampa takes that deal. At all.
Downie alone has way more value than that.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:48 PM
  #8
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Since Vinny has a NMC, it's a moot point in trade discussions anyway unless he wants out of Tampa. Bishop on the other hand, we might be interested.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:49 PM
  #9
h22prelude93
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Despite the fact that Tampa would probably never go for this trade. Lecavalier is a great player, but definitely not worth the contract. He gets paid 10 Million the next 4 seasons after this one, and 8.5 the season after that(when he turns 37). And besides that he plays on a more offensive minded team than the Blues and hasn't been PPG player or better since 2007-08. No thanks. That would be a horrible trade.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:58 PM
  #10
h22prelude93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
Since Vinny has a NMC, it's a moot point in trade discussions anyway unless he wants out of Tampa. Bishop on the other hand, we might be interested.
How about Bishop, Crombeen and a 3rd for Namestnikov? That way we get a good prospect up the middle, and you guys get a future starting goalie and a heck of PK specialist. I think that's a great trade for both teams.

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Old
01-23-2012, 11:00 PM
  #11
IdealisticSniper
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No thanks to any of the trades in here.

No way Im trading anything for Bishop at this point in time. Sans a 5th round pick or later maybe. He will be an UFA in a few short months, and if he wants a shot in the NHL, he will be moving on to another organization.

On a side note, its always funny to me that fans of other teams always look to trade for Lecavalier, and when TB fans say they dont want to, or it would take more than what the other fan has offered, it always becomes, oh his contract is one of the worst in the NHL.

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Old
01-23-2012, 11:03 PM
  #12
IdealisticSniper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
How about Bishop, Crombeen and a 3rd for Namestnikov? That way we get a good prospect up the middle, and you guys get a future starting goalie and a heck of PK specialist. I think that's a great trade for both teams.
No thanks. Bishop has no value considering he is free in a few months, Crombeen is ok but hes not the difference between Namestnikov and a 3rd.

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Old
01-23-2012, 11:21 PM
  #13
The Grouch
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Not a good move for the Blues. Lecavalier is about to turn 32 and has a contract(55 million over 8 seasons) that St. Louis wouldn't/shouldn't touch. This is the kind of trade the old regime would make.

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Old
01-23-2012, 11:32 PM
  #14
h22prelude93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
On a side note, its always funny to me that fans of other teams always look to trade for Lecavalier, and when TB fans say they dont want to, or it would take more than what the other fan has offered, it always becomes, oh his contract is one of the worst in the NHL.
I wouldn't say worst in the NHL(see Scott Gomez), but you have to admit it's looking pretty darn bad a few years down the road. Are you excited about him earning 8.5 Mil when he's 37? Didn't think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
No thanks. Bishop has no value considering he is free in a few months, Crombeen is ok but hes not the difference between Namestnikov and a 3rd.
You guys have over 30 games left. I don't see why Bishop couldn't nab at least seventeen of those from Baron. But obviously the trade would have to happen sooner than later. I can definitely see where there would be some concern though. All trades aside, I really think Bishop would be a good fit for you guys. He wants to prove he can play in the NHL more than anything, and playing with a team like Tampa would give him the opportunity to finally do so. He's also familiar with Eric Brewer so perhaps he could show him around.

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Old
01-23-2012, 11:37 PM
  #15
IdealisticSniper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
I wouldn't say worst in the NHL(see Scott Gomez), but you have to admit it's looking pretty darn bad a few years down the road. Are you excited about him earning 8.5 Mil when he's 37? Didn't think so...



You guys have over 30 games left. I don't see why Bishop couldn't nab at least seventeen of those from Baron. But obviously the trade would have to happen sooner than later. I can definitely see where there would be some concern though. All trades aside, I really think Bishop would be a good fit for you guys. He wants to prove he can play in the NHL more than anything, and playing with a team like Tampa would give him the opportunity to finally do so. He's also familiar with Eric Brewer so perhaps he could show him around.
Im not the one writing the checks so no I really dont care if hes getting paid 20M lol. Cap hit is all that matters to me, and while thats not great, even now, its not a team killer and he means more to the Lightning organization, fans, and community and any cap number.

As for Bishop, dont get me wrong, I like the guy, he has potential but Im just sick and tired of getting "hey this guy could be a good starter" goalies and having them fail miserably. If we didnt give up anything major for him sure, but Im tired of losing assets (Modin, Richards, et al) for goalies that just dont pan out.

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01-23-2012, 11:42 PM
  #16
bleedblue1223
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We financially can't afford Lecavalier.

/thread

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Old
01-24-2012, 12:24 AM
  #17
DrVanntastic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
No thanks to any of the trades in here.

No way Im trading anything for Bishop at this point in time. Sans a 5th round pick or later maybe. He will be an UFA in a few short months, and if he wants a shot in the NHL, he will be moving on to another organization.

On a side note, its always funny to me that fans of other teams always look to trade for Lecavalier, and when TB fans say they dont want to, or it would take more than what the other fan has offered, it always becomes, oh his contract is one of the worst in the NHL.
Or... it could be that one fan of said team wanted to trade for Lecavalier, and the other fans realize that it would put their team in a bind going forward. Like it or not, Lecavalier's contract is an albatross.

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Old
01-24-2012, 12:39 AM
  #18
h22prelude93
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I just noticed when Stamkos is 25, and Lecavalier is 36...he will be making twice as much as Stamkos!

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Old
01-24-2012, 12:52 AM
  #19
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TBL: Ben Bishop, STL 3rd round pick
STL: TBL 2nd round pick

The only reason I could imagine this trade not being made is if STL is afraid one of Elliott or Halak getting hurt in a playoff run. That fear might be enough to keep him around until the end of the season.

Otherwise, STL trades up to an early 2nd round pick and TBL get a potential starting goaltender without hurting organizational depth. They're just picking in the third round instead of the second.

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Old
01-24-2012, 05:37 AM
  #20
Randall Ritchey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We financially can't afford Lecavalier.

/thread
I'm so glad I didn't make mention it would be contingent of us solving our ownership problem.

Cause that wouldn't have made any sense.

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Old
01-24-2012, 05:49 AM
  #21
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I don't think Tampa would do that. The value is definitely there but I think that Tampa would probably want a top D-man.

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Old
01-24-2012, 07:50 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letmesleep View Post
TBL: Ben Bishop, STL 3rd round pick
STL: TBL 2nd round pick

The only reason I could imagine this trade not being made is if STL is afraid one of Elliott or Halak getting hurt in a playoff run. That fear might be enough to keep him around until the end of the season.

Otherwise, STL trades up to an early 2nd round pick and TBL get a potential starting goaltender without hurting organizational depth. They're just picking in the third round instead of the second.
Theres no reason for Tampa to do this. We could get him in the offseason for nothing if we want

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Old
01-24-2012, 08:44 AM
  #23
Market Street Heroes
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Why on earth would STL want Vinnys contract?

Still a very good player, but not worth that kind of money (not to mention, what it would cost in pieces to obtain him)

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Old
01-24-2012, 10:11 AM
  #24
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With some of the potential UFAs this offseason, I'd rather wait and see which if any slips through and throw all our money at them.

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Old
01-24-2012, 10:13 AM
  #25
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I'd do Clark for Bishop. You get a solid shot blocking defender that can eat minutes when Carlo will go down, and hes cheap.

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