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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2012

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Old
01-23-2012, 07:02 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
with the money problems NJ Devils are having, they may not be able to sign Parise. We should make a serious play for him, wether before the trade deadline or this summer.
If the NJ Devils are going to dump salary Volchenkov and to a lesser extent Elias would be two players we should go after.

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01-23-2012, 07:54 PM
  #202
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If the NJ Devils are going to dump salary Volchenkov and to a lesser extent Elias would be two players we should go after.
To take on the salary of those 2. Gomez + Prospect/pick would have to go the other way. We would be taking on 10m a year and sending back 5.5m with a 7.3 cap hit. Maybe add a weber at 800 grand plus another prospect pick.

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01-23-2012, 08:43 PM
  #203
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To take on the salary of those 2. Gomez + Prospect/pick would have to go the other way. We would be taking on 10m a year and sending back 5.5m with a 7.3 cap hit. Maybe add a weber at 800 grand plus another prospect pick.
I don't think they'll be willing to take any salary above an ELC type player. Gionta's LTIR will cover Elias and the cap space we saved from moving Cammy + LTIR allowances should be enough to make the whole thing work out.

I doubt we would be in the running for Elias because other teams (who need him more) have better assets available. In the off-season we can move whatever pieces we need to.

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01-23-2012, 08:52 PM
  #204
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Why do the Devils need to dump salary if

5 million in Brodeur
2.9 million in Bryce Salvador
1.8 million in Kurtis Foster (their #7 D)
1.0 million (total) in buyouts to Jay Pandolfo and Andrew Peters

all comes off their cap this year;

plus Parise already makes 6 million, how big a raise is he getting?

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01-23-2012, 09:06 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Why do the Devils need to dump salary if

5 million in Brodeur
2.9 million in Bryce Salvador
1.8 million in Kurtis Foster (their #7 D)
1.0 million (total) in buyouts to Jay Pandolfo and Andrew Peters

all comes off their cap this year;

plus Parise already makes 6 million, how big a raise is he getting?
Kovy actual salary next year goes to 11m from 6 this year. Parise contract will go up. those other players minus Brodeur will need to be replaced. If they have money problems now, it will be worse next year.

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01-23-2012, 09:06 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Why do the Devils need to dump salary if

5 million in Brodeur
2.9 million in Bryce Salvador
1.8 million in Kurtis Foster (their #7 D)
1.0 million (total) in buyouts to Jay Pandolfo and Andrew Peters

all comes off their cap this year;

plus Parise already makes 6 million, how big a raise is he getting?
With the Devils it might be more of a revenue problem than a cap problem

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01-23-2012, 10:48 PM
  #207
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I also think the habs have a

1b Centre in Plekanec
and
3 guys who are #3s in the NHL at this point in their career (DD, Eller, Gomez)

Eller might be a #2 one day, but isn't yet.

This lack of depth is apparent on defence too.... where we hae two top 4 Defenders (Subban, Gorges) and about 5-6 guys who should be 5/6/7 Ds.

Emelin might be a top 4 D, but isn't yet.
Plekanec is not a #1 center...saying he's a #1B is pretty much admitting that. There's no such thing. You either are, or you're not

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01-23-2012, 11:30 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Plekanec is not a #1 center...saying he's a #1B is pretty much admitting that. There's no such thing. You either are, or you're not
Whats a number 1 centre though.

Pleks is having an off year, yet most seasons he leads the team in pts and finishes among the top 30 centres in the NHL.

I also think that Pleks is hurt in his pt totals by the fact that he has no support at centre, and other teams can key on him; in a 1a/1b situation, I don't think that would happen as much. Nor would he be required to take every key faceoff, be the first on the ice for every PK, match up against the other team's number 1 line every night... which can be really draining.

I think if you have a 2nd guy who is as skilled as Plekanec, you can compete. Ie 2 Plekanec clones who finish between 20th - 30th in pts in the NHL for pts by centers; you can win in this league. I also think the 2nd guy needs to have size as an attribute.

I think with that down the middle you can build a good team around it. I think Pleks in a 1a/1b with a suitable compliment is fully capable of being one of the two guys on a cup contender.

I'm not convinced that David Krejci or Patrice Bergeron is better than Pleks; I just think they benefit from their being two of them.... along with quality wingers, a quality 3rd line, a monster on defence, and a great goalie.

You can build a team without having a Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Toews, etc...

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01-24-2012, 01:56 AM
  #209
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So Plekanec's 57 points last year are 1st line worthy? Come on man...you're kidding yourself if you think he's a #1 center.
alright, im tired of this giant fallacy that if you don't score 80 points you aren't a first line center.

i'll do the legwork for you
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

there. ahead of real first line centers like spezza, bergeron, lecavalier, stasny and two points shy of OMGSUPERSTAR datsyuk. and all of this on team infamous for being a place where offense goes to die - i'd list the examples, but i'd be here all week. and that's not considering the other fact that a lot of the teams with top point-getters have third line centers for those tough defensive assignments. maholtra, kelly, talbot, pahlsson and so on...

don't believe me? here i did more legwork for you
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

if you're too lazy to open that i'll sum it up: from 1 to 30 in shorthanded time on ice per game, that list has two centerman that are not of the first or second line variety. kesler and..... you guessed it, plekanec.

bottom line is the guy is literally holding our team together. he does e-ve-ry-thing on his team. not **** you like eller and dd more, these two, and dd get eaten alive by tougher opposition, plekanec is doing the hard work for them so that they don't have to.

it's not hyperbole to say that if you get rid of plekanec without getting a significant upgrade, were looking at the basement not only this year, but the next.

you want to trade him because he's not having a good year? on this team, who is? you don't trade your best forward and best centerman by a mile because of one 'bad' season. a season so bad, that he's on pace for the same total as last year

trade him for an upgrade? fine. but saying he's not a first line center is lying. plain and simple.

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Old
01-24-2012, 02:46 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
To take on the salary of those 2. Gomez + Prospect/pick would have to go the other way. We would be taking on 10m a year and sending back 5.5m with a 7.3 cap hit. Maybe add a weber at 800 grand plus another prospect pick.
Gomez will never return to Jersey ,, That is fastest way to alienate the Devils fanbase

Seriously they hate his guts

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Old
01-24-2012, 03:59 AM
  #211
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Too bad Evander Kane isn't getting the love of the Winnipeg fans,but,I have a solution when he recovers from his concussion problem.The Habs could use a player with his skill and compete level anytime,give Pierre a call I'm sure he can figure out a trade.

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Old
01-24-2012, 06:52 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Whats a number 1 centre though.

Pleks is having an off year, yet most seasons he leads the team in pts and finishes among the top 30 centres in the NHL.

I also think that Pleks is hurt in his pt totals by the fact that he has no support at centre, and other teams can key on him; in a 1a/1b situation, I don't think that would happen as much. Nor would he be required to take every key faceoff, be the first on the ice for every PK, match up against the other team's number 1 line every night... which can be really draining.

I think if you have a 2nd guy who is as skilled as Plekanec, you can compete. Ie 2 Plekanec clones who finish between 20th - 30th in pts in the NHL for pts by centers; you can win in this league. I also think the 2nd guy needs to have size as an attribute.

I think with that down the middle you can build a good team around it. I think Pleks in a 1a/1b with a suitable compliment is fully capable of being one of the two guys on a cup contender.

I'm not convinced that David Krejci or Patrice Bergeron is better than Pleks; I just think they benefit from their being two of them.... along with quality wingers, a quality 3rd line, a monster on defence, and a great goalie.

You can build a team without having a Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Toews, etc...
Exactly what I was saying, Plekanec's biggest problem is having to do too much and not getting much help on the wings this year.

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01-24-2012, 11:00 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
alright, im tired of this giant fallacy that if you don't score 80 points you aren't a first line center.

i'll do the legwork for you
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

there. ahead of real first line centers like spezza, bergeron, lecavalier, stasny and two points shy of OMGSUPERSTAR datsyuk. and all of this on team infamous for being a place where offense goes to die - i'd list the examples, but i'd be here all week. and that's not considering the other fact that a lot of the teams with top point-getters have third line centers for those tough defensive assignments. maholtra, kelly, talbot, pahlsson and so on...

don't believe me? here i did more legwork for you
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

if you're too lazy to open that i'll sum it up: from 1 to 30 in shorthanded time on ice per game, that list has two centerman that are not of the first or second line variety. kesler and..... you guessed it, plekanec.

bottom line is the guy is literally holding our team together. he does e-ve-ry-thing on his team. not **** you like eller and dd more, these two, and dd get eaten alive by tougher opposition, plekanec is doing the hard work for them so that they don't have to.

it's not hyperbole to say that if you get rid of plekanec without getting a significant upgrade, were looking at the basement not only this year, but the next.

you want to trade him because he's not having a good year? on this team, who is? you don't trade your best forward and best centerman by a mile because of one 'bad' season. a season so bad, that he's on pace for the same total as last year

trade him for an upgrade? fine. but saying he's not a first line center is lying. plain and simple.
Saying he's not a first line center is lying? lol ok...

Anyways, I don't really care about the stats you posted, he's not a first line center...he's out of his element here as one. He's an excellent #2 behind a dominant #1.

Not sure why that's so offensive to him?

Also, I don't want to trade Plekanec because he's having a bad season...I'd support trading him because I feel he has some value to a team like the Habs in the situation they are in. Again, for the 100th time...I wouldn't give him away, but if I could get a package of a young established player + pick, I wouldn't hesitate.

So what if he's the teams 'best' center (which this year, he's not)...the Habs are 2 points from last place, what does that say? The Habs will NEVER be a true contender with Tomas Plekanec as their best center...

Don't get me wrong, I like Plekanec too...he's a true professional and has been a great Hab and when everyone wanted him out of town a few years ago after his putrid season, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.

But things change, why are people so afraid of change? I also think it's fallacy to think that if the Habs moved Plekanec that it would mean they would suck for the next 2 years...and even if that was the case, i'm prepared as fan to see the team take 1 step back to take 2 forward. I'm tired of the status quo and I want to see the organization change it's philosophy, they need to get creative to win in this market.

That's why i'm praying someone like Marc Bergevin can become GM of this team, someone with a vision whose not afraid sell high and not always looking to sell low.

Again, you're kidding yourself if you think this team will get better by moving it's undesirable parts...

when I look at the short term future of this team...meaning the next 2-3-4 years, I see Plekanec as a guy whose maxed out as a player, he's at his ceiling. It might be prudent to capitalize on his value today while it's still relatively high.

Again, i'm not saying give him away...but to completely dismiss the idea of using him as a pawn to improve the team, is just as ludicrous. He's not an essential core member of this team moving forward IMO

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01-24-2012, 11:06 AM
  #214
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Exactly what I was saying, Plekanec's biggest problem is having to do too much and not getting much help on the wings this year.
Give me a break...Plekanec has played extensively with Gionta/Cammy/Kostitsyn/Cole this year. Not like Plekanec is out there playing with Darche every night.

As for him 'having to do too much'...Lars Eller has taken on alot more defensive responsibility this year, he's shared alot of the tough assignments with Plekanec depending on the matchups of road vs. home.

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01-24-2012, 11:27 AM
  #215
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Too bad Evander Kane isn't getting the love of the Winnipeg fans,but,I have a solution when he recovers from his concussion problem.The Habs could use a player with his skill and compete level anytime,give Pierre a call I'm sure he can figure out a trade.
So what are you willing to give up for him?

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01-24-2012, 11:47 AM
  #216
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Saying he's not a first line center is lying? lol ok...

Anyways, I don't really care about the stats you posted, he's not a first line center...he's out of his element here as one. He's an excellent #2 behind a dominant #1.

Not sure why that's so offensive to him?

Also, I don't want to trade Plekanec because he's having a bad season...I'd support trading him because I feel he has some value to a team like the Habs in the situation they are in. Again, for the 100th time...I wouldn't give him away, but if I could get a package of a young established player + pick, I wouldn't hesitate.

So what if he's the teams 'best' center (which this year, he's not)...the Habs are 2 points from last place, what does that say? The Habs will NEVER be a true contender with Tomas Plekanec as their best center...

Don't get me wrong, I like Plekanec too...he's a true professional and has been a great Hab and when everyone wanted him out of town a few years ago after his putrid season, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.

But things change, why are people so afraid of change? I also think it's fallacy to think that if the Habs moved Plekanec that it would mean they would suck for the next 2 years...and even if that was the case, i'm prepared as fan to see the team take 1 step back to take 2 forward. I'm tired of the status quo and I want to see the organization change it's philosophy, they need to get creative to win in this market.

That's why i'm praying someone like Marc Bergevin can become GM of this team, someone with a vision whose not afraid sell high and not always looking to sell low.

Again, you're kidding yourself if you think this team will get better by moving it's undesirable parts...

when I look at the short term future of this team...meaning the next 2-3-4 years, I see Plekanec as a guy whose maxed out as a player, he's at his ceiling. It might be prudent to capitalize on his value today while it's still relatively high.

Again, i'm not saying give him away...but to completely dismiss the idea of using him as a pawn to improve the team, is just as ludicrous. He's not an essential core member of this team moving forward IMO
Again you make an assumption that we will never contend with him as top center. If Boston can win a cup with Bergeron or Krejci as #1 we can definitely win with Plekanec.

I'm not going to beat my head against the wall trying to convince you otherwise, but I don't see Plekanec going anywhere in the near future.

Selling high is a nice concept and everything, but for the most part your best and most valuable assets are also the ones that put butts in the seasts and win hockey games, very rarely do you see teams trade their top players when their value it at it's peak. Why do you figure this is Bergevin's philiosophy?

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01-24-2012, 11:50 AM
  #217
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Give me a break...Plekanec has played extensively with Gionta/Cammy/Kostitsyn/Cole this year. Not like Plekanec is out there playing with Darche every night.

As for him 'having to do too much'...Lars Eller has taken on alot more defensive responsibility this year, he's shared alot of the tough assignments with Plekanec depending on the matchups of road vs. home.
Cole and Pacioretty have been the top wingers on the team and they have been with Desharnais 90-95% of the time. Cammalleri was playing like crap, that's why he is in Calgary. AK has played mostly with Eller.

"having to do too much" means playing a ton of PK minutes and getting a pile of tough matchups and defensive zone faceoffs.

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01-24-2012, 12:00 PM
  #218
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If we were to add a center, I think Carter would be that guy. He has apparently asked to be traded and his play seems to reflect it.

I could see him and Plekanec as 1 and 1a. that being said that would probably mean Eller gets moved(to wing or trade) as both guys are signed 4 or more years and DD is a cheap #3.

My biggest question with Carter is, is he a guy you can win with? It was a bit of a surprise Phillie moved him, and only 7-8 months after he apparently wants out.

Second question what would the cost be?

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01-24-2012, 12:04 PM
  #219
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If we were to add a center, I think Carter would be that guy. He has apparently asked to be traded and his play seems to reflect it.

I could see him and Plekanec as 1 and 1a. that being said that would probably mean Eller gets moved(to wing or trade) as both guys are signed 4 or more years and DD is a cheap #3.

My biggest question with Carter is, is he a guy you can win with? It was a bit of a surprise Phillie moved him, and only 7-8 months after he apparently wants out.

Second question what would the cost be?
plekanec +

that's the conundrum...

and i believe carter should be added to the habs with plekanec. that's the one-two punch. replacing plekanec with carter leaves a hole in the lineup that nobody can fill. yet

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01-24-2012, 12:08 PM
  #220
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plekanec +

that's the conundrum...

and i believe carter should be added to the habs with plekanec. that's the one-two punch. replacing plekanec with carter leaves a hole in the lineup that nobody can fill. yet
Yeah, the only way I'd do it is if we could have both and Subban isn't going the other way.

Carter is more a "nice to have" than a "have to have" guy.

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01-24-2012, 12:09 PM
  #221
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Again you make an assumption that we will never contend with him as top center. If Boston can win a cup with Bergeron or Krejci as #1 we can definitely win with Plekanec.

I'm not going to beat my head against the wall trying to convince you otherwise, but I don't see Plekanec going anywhere in the near future.

Selling high is a nice concept and everything, but for the most part your best and most valuable assets are also the ones that put butts in the seasts and win hockey games, very rarely do you see teams trade their top players when their value it at it's peak. Why do you figure this is Bergevin's philiosophy?
I'm not making an assumption, the Habs have NOT contended with him as the top center.

I also don't see him going anywhere in the near future, I don't think Gauthier has the vision and courage to make a move like that. So on that front, you're probably right.

Also, just a quick note about teams very rarely trading their top players when their value is at their peak...not sure I agree with that, but either way, Plekanec hasn't been amongst the Habs top players this year and I thought he was very poor in the second half last year.

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01-24-2012, 12:11 PM
  #222
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If we were to add a center, I think Carter would be that guy. He has apparently asked to be traded and his play seems to reflect it.

I could see him and Plekanec as 1 and 1a. that being said that would probably mean Eller gets moved(to wing or trade) as both guys are signed 4 or more years and DD is a cheap #3.

My biggest question with Carter is, is he a guy you can win with? It was a bit of a surprise Phillie moved him, and only 7-8 months after he apparently wants out.

Second question what would the cost be?
If I could get Carter in a deal involving Plekanec, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat

Big right handed C/W, who has the ability to score?

Yeah, don't even need to think about it twice...

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01-24-2012, 12:11 PM
  #223
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Saying he's not a first line center is lying? lol ok...

Anyways, I don't really care about the stats you posted, he's not a first line center...he's out of his element here as one. He's an excellent #2 behind a dominant #1.

Not sure why that's so offensive to him?

Also, I don't want to trade Plekanec because he's having a bad season...I'd support trading him because I feel he has some value to a team like the Habs in the situation they are in. Again, for the 100th time...I wouldn't give him away, but if I could get a package of a young established player + pick, I wouldn't hesitate.

So what if he's the teams 'best' center (which this year, he's not)...the Habs are 2 points from last place, what does that say? The Habs will NEVER be a true contender with Tomas Plekanec as their best center...

Don't get me wrong, I like Plekanec too...he's a true professional and has been a great Hab and when everyone wanted him out of town a few years ago after his putrid season, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.

But things change, why are people so afraid of change? I also think it's fallacy to think that if the Habs moved Plekanec that it would mean they would suck for the next 2 years...and even if that was the case, i'm prepared as fan to see the team take 1 step back to take 2 forward. I'm tired of the status quo and I want to see the organization change it's philosophy, they need to get creative to win in this market.

That's why i'm praying someone like Marc Bergevin can become GM of this team, someone with a vision whose not afraid sell high and not always looking to sell low.

Again, you're kidding yourself if you think this team will get better by moving it's undesirable parts...

when I look at the short term future of this team...meaning the next 2-3-4 years, I see Plekanec as a guy whose maxed out as a player, he's at his ceiling. It might be prudent to capitalize on his value today while it's still relatively high.

Again, i'm not saying give him away...but to completely dismiss the idea of using him as a pawn to improve the team, is just as ludicrous. He's not an essential core member of this team moving forward IMO
You're right, facts are so overrated...

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01-24-2012, 12:13 PM
  #224
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I'm not making an assumption, the Habs have NOT contended with him as the top center.

I also don't see him going anywhere in the near future, I don't think Gauthier has the vision and courage to make a move like that. So on that front, you're probably right.

Also, just a quick note about teams very rarely trading their top players when their value is at their peak...not sure I agree with that, but either way, Plekanec hasn't been amongst the Habs top players this year and I thought he was very poor in the second half last year.
What kind of deal would Gauthier show "courage and vision" with? Any deal taht leaves us with Eller and Dd as #1 and 2 going forward is sheer stupidity. I ahve pointed out how Staal and Getzlaf are not necessarily better for contractual reasons.

What teams traded their top players when their value was at their peak? Give me examples, and I don't mean UFA's where they traded them so they wouldn't lose them for nothing.

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01-24-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Roy View Post
You're right, facts are so overrated...
What facts? He put up 57pts last year, and he's on pace for less this year?

Those are the stats of a #1 center? lol...you serious?

Is this, the ridiculous argument that there are 30 #1 NHL centers again?

As though that makes any sense lol

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