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Old
01-22-2012, 09:40 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I posted this a few weeks ago. Bolded are estimates.

Code:
Erat		 $5.500 	Legwand	 $4.000 	Hornqvist	 $3.250 
Kostitsyn	 $3.000 	Fisher		 $3.000 	Wilson	 $3.000 
Tootoo	 $1.700 	Spaling	 $1.100 	Bourque	 $0.635 
Halischuk	 $0.825 	Smithson	 $0.800 	Smith		 $0.690 
McGratton	 $0.650 	K Wilson	 $0.550
					
Weber	 $7.500 	Suter		 $6.500 		
Klein		 $1.350 	Josi		 $0.875 	
Blum		 $0.800 	Ellis		 $0.810 		
Ekholm	 $0.900 				
					
Rinne		 $7.000 	Lindback	 $0.900 		
					
Dumont*	 $1.333 	Lebda*	 $0.467 		
					
					
Total:	  $57.135  	Cap:	 $64.300 	Space:	$7.165
If we get a forward for $7M, have him take Hornqvist's or Kostitsyn's spot, and that leaves us with $3M left. And that is assuming the cap doesn't rise (which it will)
What is this? Salaries???
You wrong already.
You count cap hits not salaries,( where is bonuses anyways?).

You also forget about dew raises to few of the players.
And if you think you get Weber for same money again, you must be dreaming.
Suter will be 7 mil range.


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01-22-2012, 09:59 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
What is this? Salaries???
You wrong already.
You count cap hits not salaries,( where is bonuses anyways?).

You also forget about dew raises to few of the players.
And if you think you get Weber for same money again, you must be dreaming.
Suter will be 7 mil range.

Actually .. the team has to count both cap hits and real salaries. There is a logic behind front loading some deals and back loading others.

Of this year's roster - only Ellis, Josi, Smith, and Bourque are eligible for bonuses next season. If I remember right, Radulov is the last player to meet any of the bonus plateaus spelled out in the CBA ... so those cap numbers get subtracted out at the end of the season.


Quote:
Forwards
(i) Ice time (aggregate and/or per Game). Player must be among top
six (6) forwards on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games
played by Player and comparison group). (Note: an Entry Level
SPC may contain bonuses for both aggregate and per Game ice
time; however, the maximum aggregate amount the Player may
receive on account of the ice time category is $212,500.)
(ii) Goals: 20 Goal Minimum
(iii) Assists: 35 Assist Minimum

(iv) Points: 60 Point Minimum
(v) Points Per Game: .73 Points Per Game Minimum (minimum 42
Regular Season Games played)

(vi) Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) forwards on the Club
(minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and
comparison group).
(vii) End-of-Season NHL All-Rookie Team
(viii) NHL All-Star Game (selected to play or plays)
(ix)NHL All-Star Game MVP

Defensemen
(i) Ice time (aggregate and/or per Game). Player must be among top four (4) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group). (Note: an Entry Level SPC may contain bonuses for both aggregate and per Game ice time; however, the maximum aggregate amount the Player may receive on account of the ice time category is $212,500.)
(ii) Goals: 10 Goal Minimum
(iii) Assists: 25 Assist Minimum
(iv) Points: 40 Point Minimum
(v) Points Per Game: .49 Points Per Game Minimum (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played)

(vi) Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).
(vii) Blocked Shots: Among top two (2) defensemen on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).
(viii) End-of-Season NHL All-Rookie Team
(ix) NHL All-Star Game (selected to play or plays)
(x) NHL All-Star Game MVP

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Old
01-22-2012, 10:03 PM
  #53
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Colin Wilson ($3.025m)
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / Craig Smith ($0.715m)
Patric Hornqvist ($3.083m) / Nick Spaling ($1.050m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.750m)
Gabriel Bourque ($0.618m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.712m)
/ Blake Geoffrion ($1.062m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Ellis ($1.440m) / Kevin Klein ($1.350m)
Roman Josi ($1.000m) / Shea Weber ($8.000m)
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Jonathon Blum ($1.041m)
/ Mattias Ekholm ($1.025m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($7.000m) / Jeremy Smith ($1.045m)

BUYOUTS: J.P. Dumont ($1.333m) / Brett Lebda ($0.466m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,719,165; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $580,835

And the year after we doomed...

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01-22-2012, 10:11 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Colin Wilson ($3.025m)
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / Craig Smith ($0.715m)
Patric Hornqvist ($3.083m) / Nick Spaling ($1.050m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.750m)
Gabriel Bourque ($0.618m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.712m)
/ Blake Geoffrion ($1.062m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Ellis ($1.440m) / Kevin Klein ($1.350m)
Roman Josi ($1.000m) / Shea Weber ($8.000m)
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Jonathon Blum ($1.041m)
/ Mattias Ekholm ($1.025m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($7.000m) / Jeremy Smith ($1.045m)

BUYOUTS: J.P. Dumont ($1.333m) / Brett Lebda ($0.466m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,719,165; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $580,835

And the year after we doomed...
Actually the year after that fisher will be off the books. And erats actual cash drops to 3.25 million and legwands drops as well. Trust me, if we can get parise, weber, suter, and rinne all locked up long term, poile will find a way to do it and it will be well worth it

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01-22-2012, 11:02 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Actually .. the team has to count both cap hits and real salaries. There is a logic behind front loading some deals and back loading others.
?
Are you sure about that?

Only cap hit is taking into consideration for calculating cap space...

Other way Buffalo is over the sky in your books...

P.S But yes, it is logic behind front or back loading, not related to cap thou...

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01-22-2012, 11:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Actually the year after that fisher will be off the books. And erats actual cash drops to 3.25 million and legwands drops as well. Trust me, if we can get parise, weber, suter, and rinne all locked up long term, poile will find a way to do it and it will be well worth it
What about Radulov???

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01-22-2012, 11:07 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
?
Are you sure about that?

Only cap hit is taking into consideration for calculating cap space...

Other way Buffalo is over the sky in your books...

P.S But yes, it is logic behind front or back loading, not related to cap thou...
What I believe 101st is saying is that the team has to consider real salaries on a year-by-year basis in terms of making the budget work as opposed to fitting under the salary cap.

It's the reason that some of our long-term deals that are signed at relatively the same time are staggered with one making more the the start and the other at the end, etc...

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01-22-2012, 11:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
What I believe 101st is saying is that the team has to consider real salaries on a year-by-year basis in terms of making the budget work as opposed to fitting under the salary cap.

It's the reason that some of our long-term deals that are signed at relatively the same time are staggered with one making more the the start and the other at the end, etc...

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01-22-2012, 11:19 PM
  #59
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All for all it is good that we care about our team so much, and only in constructive argument we can find the truth


But one thing bothers me a lot lately...

I feel that Suter and Weber would sign for less with some other team then they would with us...

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01-23-2012, 06:44 AM
  #60
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I think the $6.5-7.5 range is right for Suter and Weber, which is pretty much what they would get anywhere in the league. Suter at the moment can't really command more than $7, and Weber could probably ask for $8 but he would be hard pressed to find many buyers at that price. I believe his $7.5 is already the highest cap hit among defensemen.

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01-23-2012, 08:18 AM
  #61
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this NY POST article

reveals just how serious the devils finances are.

It further went on to speculate that if the NHL is keeping the franchise afloat they will insist on NJ trading Parise for futures in order to lower payroll

If this is true this opens a huge can of worms, but could mean that Lindback(who coud be sent to the minors and paid minor league money), Blum(in the minors, on an ELC) and Picks, could in fact yield a Parise trade...

hang on folks, its about to get wild and crazy...

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01-23-2012, 08:42 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
this NY POST article

reveals just how serious the devils finances are.

It further went on to speculate that if the NHL is keeping the franchise afloat they will insist on NJ trading Parise for futures in order to lower payroll

If this is true this opens a huge can of worms, but could mean that Lindback(who coud be sent to the minors and paid minor league money), Blum(in the minors, on an ELC) and Picks, could in fact yield a Parise trade...

hang on folks, its about to get wild and crazy...

The Devils have several other large contracts they could move to bring payroll down (Salvador, Zubrus, Volchenkov, Tallinder) if they wanted to re-sign Parise. Even if not possible to do so, I think the chances of them moving him before late June are next to nil.

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01-23-2012, 09:05 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
The Devils have several other large contracts they could move to bring payroll down (Salvador, Zubrus, Volchenkov, Tallinder) if they wanted to re-sign Parise. Even if not possible to do so, I think the chances of them moving him before late June are next to nil.
I guess what it boils down to is how much control the NHL can/will exert if it is paying the bills. Does anyone know how the NHL decides how things are run in Phoenix?

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01-23-2012, 09:18 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I guess what it boils down to is how much control the NHL can/will exert if it is paying the bills. Does anyone know how the NHL decides how things are run in Phoenix?
They're given a budget, and team ownership is free to operate within that budget, the last I read.

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01-25-2012, 04:15 AM
  #65
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If the Pred's got Parise. I would become a stalker.

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01-25-2012, 08:16 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
The Devils have several other large contracts they could move to bring payroll down (Salvador, Zubrus, Volchenkov, Tallinder) if they wanted to re-sign Parise. Even if not possible to do so, I think the chances of them moving him before late June are next to nil.
Yes, the Devils could lower payroll by moving other contracts than Parise's. However, moving multiple pieces of veteran talent for futures doesn't help get them into the playoffs now, nor does it entice Parise into re-signing when he's looking to go to a contender.

Why move several veterans that could help you still reach the playoffs this season, especially if you could get 2 - 3 good roster players back for Parise? It's no guarantee they make the playoffs this season, with Parise in the fold. I honestly think they don't just due to the increased pressure as the trade deadline approaches.

Here's what I don't understand in regards to General Managers like Lou. The Devils won't trade Parise prior to the deadline because "the Devils/Lou don't do that". Really? If you know that you can't afford to re-sign him, and you know that your team will have to get younger due to the necessity of cheaper contracts, why do you not try to maximize the return even if that means you let teams negotiate with Parise?

Lou's job is to basically put the team in the best position to succeed. If the team goes bankrupt, they don't succeed. If the team goes in the tank for the next several seasons, they'll start losing fans, sponsorships, etc. Again- not helping the money situation. The right thing to do is to trade him. It's simple.

If Lou's "principles" are not what's best for the team, then he needs to either suck it up or step down. The only exception to that should be those principles based in ethics- and that isn't the case here.

All that said, Minnesota is dying to land Parise and would make a hard push for him. And they might very well be able to both entice Parise as well as offer a package equal to what Nashville could offer New Jersey and Parise.

It doesn't change the fact that there is practically zero reason for New Jersey to not move Parise before the deadline. It won't shock me if they don't, though, as Lou hasn't done that great of a job in the cap world.

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01-25-2012, 08:40 AM
  #67
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Tom Guiletti of the Bergen Record's Fire and Ice blog was on NHL Home Ice yesterday morning, and stated pretty emphatically that any financial issues the Devils are having won't really have an impact until the offseason, despite what the beat writer covering their rival says. He said that it could impact their ability to RE-SIGN Parise, it won't force them to trade him within the season, and that he'd put it at 98 percent that he's not traded.

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01-25-2012, 09:01 AM
  #68
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the whole thing that is amazing is that apparently they Devils ownership knew they were having financial problems yet chose to spend to the cap anyway, and now they have the time bomb of Kovy's contract ballooning to 11 million actual cash next year.

As painful as it would have been, the smart thing to have done(other than not signing Kovy in the first place) would have been to trade Parise for futures last summer when they could have got a huge return of young talent and saved 6 million dollars this season.

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01-25-2012, 09:09 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Tom Guiletti of the Bergen Record's Fire and Ice blog was on NHL Home Ice yesterday morning, and stated pretty emphatically that any financial issues the Devils are having won't really have an impact until the offseason, despite what the beat writer covering their rival says. He said that it could impact their ability to RE-SIGN Parise, it won't force them to trade him within the season, and that he'd put it at 98 percent that he's not traded.
I agree that the money owed to Parise this season is not significant at this point in regards to their financial issues.

However, if their financial issues prevent New Jersey from even entertaining re-signing Parise (or making New Jersey obviously not a team that Parise wants to re-sign with for long term), then why not do what's best to for the team long term. Make the best of a bad situation.

That's where Lou is failing in his job if he can find a deal out there that would bring back a couple of good young roster players at the price along with some good picks.

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01-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #70
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I agree that the money owed to Parise this season is not significant at this point in regards to their financial issues.

However, if their financial issues prevent New Jersey from even entertaining re-signing Parise (or making New Jersey obviously not a team that Parise wants to re-sign with for long term), then why not do what's best to for the team long term. Make the best of a bad situation.

That's where Lou is failing in his job if he can find a deal out there that would bring back a couple of good young roster players at the price along with some good picks.
makes you wonder if they have such a pressing need for cash in the short term that the hope is that with Parise they can get into the playoffs and maybe even win a round, which would generate an immediate influx of several million dollars, even at the expense of the future of the team which will suffer by getting no return for parise(or limited return this summer).

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01-25-2012, 10:20 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
Yes, the Devils could lower payroll by moving other contracts than Parise's. However, moving multiple pieces of veteran talent for futures doesn't help get them into the playoffs now, nor does it entice Parise into re-signing when he's looking to go to a contender.

Why move several veterans that could help you still reach the playoffs this season, especially if you could get 2 - 3 good roster players back for Parise? It's no guarantee they make the playoffs this season, with Parise in the fold. I honestly think they don't just due to the increased pressure as the trade deadline approaches.

Here's what I don't understand in regards to General Managers like Lou. The Devils won't trade Parise prior to the deadline because "the Devils/Lou don't do that". Really? If you know that you can't afford to re-sign him, and you know that your team will have to get younger due to the necessity of cheaper contracts, why do you not try to maximize the return even if that means you let teams negotiate with Parise?

Lou's job is to basically put the team in the best position to succeed. If the team goes bankrupt, they don't succeed. If the team goes in the tank for the next several seasons, they'll start losing fans, sponsorships, etc. Again- not helping the money situation. The right thing to do is to trade him. It's simple.

If Lou's "principles" are not what's best for the team, then he needs to either suck it up or step down. The only exception to that should be those principles based in ethics- and that isn't the case here.

All that said, Minnesota is dying to land Parise and would make a hard push for him. And they might very well be able to both entice Parise as well as offer a package equal to what Nashville could offer New Jersey and Parise.

It doesn't change the fact that there is practically zero reason for New Jersey to not move Parise before the deadline. It won't shock me if they don't, though, as Lou hasn't done that great of a job in the cap world.

Ugh, I didn't know Minnesota would be making a push for him. For some reason I feel like people think of Suter going to Minnesota too...if he AND Parise end up there, under our old frenemy Liarpold...ugh, the thought makes me want to vomit.

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01-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #72
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No way we should get Parise unless: 1) He comes cheap (asset-wise), or 2) We have all but a guarantee that he will resign.

We have squandered way too many assets at this point in our organization and can't afford to do it again with Parise rental or Suter walk.

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01-25-2012, 12:40 PM
  #73
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No way we should get Parise unless: 1) He comes cheap (asset-wise), or 2) We have all but a guarantee that he will resign.

We have squandered way too many assets at this point in our organization and can't afford to do it again with Parise rental or Suter walk.
but the theory is if we get Parise, that shows commitment and convinces Weber and Suter to sign, even if Parise eventually walks

but I do agree we shouldnt sell the farm for him..

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01-25-2012, 12:49 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
but the theory is if we get Parise, that shows commitment and convinces Weber and Suter to sign, even if Parise eventually walks

but I do agree we shouldnt sell the farm for him..
I'd sell the farm for him if and only if Suter agrees to sign in advance of the farm selling. To me, it then would be worth whatever it takes, even if ZP walks.

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01-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #75
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I'd sell the farm for him if and only if Suter agrees to sign in advance of the farm selling. To me, it then would be worth whatever it takes, even if ZP walks.
Agree to some extent. IF we nab parise, we have to have a PROMISE form suter on paper that he will sign here. The odds of weber committing long term here go hand in hand with Suter staying here.

I don't think Poile gets Parise, but I do think he makes a significant move to improve our team even beyond its great levels.

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