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The Webs/Suts Rose Ceremony - All Ryan Suter/Shea Weber FA talk

View Poll Results: Do you think that we should trade Ryan Suter at the deadline?
Yes, we need to get something for him rather than nothing. 18 30.51%
No, he's more valuable than any return that we would get for him. 41 69.49%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-25-2012, 10:26 AM
  #301
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This team was the youngest in the NHL last year and made the second round.

Since then, we lost middle-age/veterans in Lombardi, Ward, O'Brien, Sullivan, and Dumont. We replaced them with younger guys like Smith, Halischuk (in a bigger role), Borque, Josi, and Ellis. The youngest team in the NHL got years and years younger. We also have one of the top prospect pools and scouting groups in the league. Our revenues are going up. Our internal cap is slowly going away.

I am not sure there is a place Weber and Suter can go that can guarantee them being contenders every year.

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01-25-2012, 10:27 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
I'm starting to think that way too. We all have been saying that we're going nowhere without a game-changing forward...that we can't possibly sustain the pace we've been winning at...yet, we have. I don't really know how, but we have. I doubt anyone is going to say we don't still need a game-changing forward, but we certainly don't need one as desperately as I and a lot of others had thought.
this is the absolute truth. you DO NOT have to have a game changing forward IF you truly have balanced scoring from multiple players.

You need a game changing forward to carry you though the times when the rest of the team isnt producing.. but if you have NINE forwards, all of whom are scoring some, it will be rare to have any extended stretch when at least one or two arent hot.

at different times this season, its been Hornqvist, Smith, Wilson, SK, Erat, and now Fisher having stretches where they score just like a "game changing forward" and all the while Halischuk, Spaling and Legwand, and even Tootoo seem to chip in somewhat regularly.

This team is looking quite similar to last years Bruins.... the big IF is can we stay healthy and can the rooks keep playing well.. if the answer to both of those is "yes" we are as well positioned as anyone else to make a run, without adding anyone... and so if we can add some depth to cover for the eventual injuries and/or rookie backsliding, I think we will be set.

that said, if Parise is available for a reasonable price(Lindback, Blum, picks), or if radulov could return this year, i'd jump all over it...

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Old
01-25-2012, 10:43 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
You need a game changing forward to carry you though the times when the rest of the team isnt producing.. .
The regular season is fine and dandy, but the biggest time you need game changing forwards is in the playoffs when goals aren't easy to come by.

Outside of the anomaly of the Ducks, our scoring in the playoffs has been atrocious.

I'm happy that our scoring per game has increased this year (who isn't), but the need for the "take charge" offensive guy(s) is there. Wilson maybe the first...

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01-25-2012, 11:14 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I have no doubt that we can make the playoffs as a 5 or 6 seed, maybe even 4 with our current roster.

Do we have enough scoring to make noise in the playoffs, though? I'm not so sure.
You know, I find that a peculiar question. We're 4th in the conf in scoring, a good ways behind DET, CHI, and VAN, and 9 ahead of the 5th team (COL and SJ). In the East - 5 teams have scored more than us - including TOR who is currently 9th. So, for 16 teams in the POs, we're smack in the middle - what do we think is "enough" scoring for the POs?

It seems to me it's our goal differential that's been the issue - and we're 10th in the league there. Now - you could argue more scoring makes that better, but so does improved defense; and that's exactly what we've seen over our little run up the standings.

We're getting much closer to what we would expect from our D - Pex is down around 2.35 GAA, and our young kids are improving continually. D doesn't go in slumps, either; unlike scoring where you can just be totally snakebit no matter what you do.

Not saying I wouldn't like to have a Parise or whomever, but I'd be content upgrading our #6 Dman from Cube/Hillen and adding a competent upgrade to Smitty, if Yip isn't that guy. (and yes, I know Smithson does a lotta' the little things etc., but we could get another guy like a Spaling or Hals and I think that would more than cover it and upgrade the O a good bit).

Guess I'd argue that our balanced scoring, and particularly our special teams scoring, is "enough", cause honestly we're not catching the elite teams in scoring power no matter what, but if they have to contend with every line we throw out there, we're gonna' exploit their 2nd and 3rd pairings, whereas we throw out Webs and Sutes for half a game and the other half we're still pretty darned good. Not sure it's good enough to beat DET or VAN this year, but I'm darned sure it is over the next several.

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01-25-2012, 03:22 PM
  #305
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BTN posted on the trade board but I dont see that he put it up here... Poile reportedly said on XM today that Suter is not going to be available at the deadline, and this was because of how much better we have played of late, ie, he thinks we can make a real run this year... plus he apparently again expressed confidence that Suter will re-sign..

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01-25-2012, 03:28 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
BTN posted on the trade board but I dont see that he put it up here... Poile reportedly said on XM today that Suter is not going to be available at the deadline, and this was because of how much better we have played of late, ie, he thinks we can make a real run this year... plus he apparently again expressed confidence that Suter will re-sign..
After reading that thread, I really just want to say **** it lets get some top end talent Blum our 1st ect and basically shoot the ball into Weber and Suter's court. I am ready for these two to be locked up.

With the way this team is playing, adding a top 3 or top six is only going to be a good thing going into the playoffs. Here's to getting out first division title in franchise history.

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01-25-2012, 03:49 PM
  #307
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Get Ward back to dominate the playoffs again! Kidding, but we're not in dire need of a Parise / etc. talent that will be vastly overexpensive and difficult to sign depending on the current contract. A strong second line forward akin to Fisher last year would be adequate in my opinion. Even those guys aren't cheap, but I think Blum + 1st / 2nd gives us a seat at the discussion table for someone solid. Lindback remains another chip to move and you bump Picard / etc up to fill the backup void while letting Pekka continue to shoulder a heavy load of games.

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01-25-2012, 04:00 PM
  #308
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i don't think we desperately need Parise\Ryan\etc, but I'd feel better with even the addition of someone like Kostitsyn, Ruutu, or Hemsky.

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01-25-2012, 04:07 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
i don't think we desperately need Parise\Ryan\etc, but I'd feel better with even the addition of someone like Kostitsyn, Ruutu, or Hemsky.
That is pretty much what I think too. I would be more than ok with that for a top six with the exception of Hemsky. His injury history scares me. I have to admit though, he's put up the best numbers of anyone available... too bad he is made of glass. For the record when I say top 3, I mean someone to replace Hornqvist on the legwand line since that one and fisher's line seem to be 1st line A and 1st line B depending on what week it is.

Imagine this line up

Wilson Legwand Hemsky
SK Fisher Erat
Hals Smith Hornqvist
Borque Spaling Tootoo

While none of those lines are as talented as Chicago's or Vancouver's top line, they certianly have the depth to beat anybody any day in the west and I think makes us not just a playoff team but a true cup contender and possibly our first division title.

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01-25-2012, 04:22 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
i don't think we desperately need Parise\Ryan\etc, but I'd feel better with even the addition of someone like Kostitsyn, Ruutu, or Hemsky.
Starting to think this more and more lately. I firmly believe we can go deep without having that 1 skilled guy that's above the rest. Another middle-tier top6 scorer that has playoff experience might be all we need. This is still a very young team. Should be interesting how this group handles the playoffs.


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01-25-2012, 04:30 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
After reading that thread, I really just want to say **** it lets get some top end talent Blum our 1st ect and basically shoot the ball into Weber and Suter's court. I am ready for these two to be locked up.

With the way this team is playing, adding a top 3 or top six is only going to be a good thing going into the playoffs. Here's to getting out first division title in franchise history.
Our commitment is on the table. Trade talent and picks away for them both to say , not good enough....I don't know.. There is evidently a lot of mistrust on both sides.


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01-25-2012, 05:12 PM
  #312
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I'm becoming more and more against a major move at the deadline. We are such a young team. For the next 5+ years, you're looking at......

Wilson-Smith-(Radulov)?
Erat-Legwand-SK
(Any one of Beck, Watson, Latta, Geoffrion, Salomaaki)-Fisher-Hornqvist

Weber-Suter
Josi-Ellis
Klein-Blum
Ekholm-Roussel

Rinne

I don't care who you plug into the last 4 forward slots and backup goalie spot, that is a solid team. I would say, assuming Wilson/Smith/etc. continue to develop as projected, we are a perenial playoff team. Keep in mind, this is not including players like Halischuk/Spailing who could easily be solid players for a long time. This is just our core that we will build around. If revenues keep going up, we can bring in another big piece at forward. This team is built to be a contender not for this year, but for the next while.

Weber and Suter can't go anywhere else, IMO, and be significantly more assured of being a contender for the next, say, 7 years. Philly is close for sure. Boston too. Detroit is getting old, and by the end of the contracts Webs/Sutes sign, Zettberg, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom will be gone.

I may be a homer here, but i look at that core and say Nashville is a contender today and for the next 5 years if they both sign. If they give us 7 years each, I think they bring a cup to Nashville with this group. We can't promise them being the wihtout-a-doubt best team in the league any given year, but we can promise an almost assured playoff spot and a good chance that we have a shot at the cup every year for as long as they stay.

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01-25-2012, 05:25 PM
  #313
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I don't feel any different than I did in the beginning of the year: this team still needs a high end forward to be serious cup contenders. A little winning streak is not going to change that. If one becomes available, we need to pounce on it.

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01-25-2012, 06:10 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
i don't think we desperately need Parise\Ryan\etc, but I'd feel better with even the addition of someone like Kostitsyn, Ruutu, or Hemsky.
I'm almost certain now that Poile will get one of those guys, never mind the cost for acquiring their services. If its Hemsky, I would hazard to guess, one of the three young d-men (Blum/Ellis/Josi) will no longer be a Pred on Feb 27 or earlier. Injury history notwithstanding, the bidding competition should drive the price up that high. Hemsky is likely to be the only premium top six player available without requiring a core veteran player to go the other way.

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01-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  #315
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I like hemsky but anything over a first and midrange prospect or picks is overpayment. He has way way too much risk. Check his games played - it is downright scary. Additionally, he simply hasn't been that good this year compared to years past.

Now, saying that, a healthy or improved hemsky would easily be the best offensive talent on this team ... Maybe ever sans Forsberg. He is so so creative. A line with Wilson and hemsky could be amazing. Actually, there are a lot of line combos that would look really nice with hemsky in them

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01-25-2012, 06:41 PM
  #316
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I can only assume, if Poile did go after Hemsky, there would be a condition attached in terms of games played. He adds skill and soft hands to the top6, but I worry about his injury history. As I'm sure alot of others are. Even if it's not to us, I think this is the deadline where Hemsky is actually moved. After so many injuries off and on, I'd get pretty tired of the situation and want to get a fresh start.

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01-25-2012, 07:18 PM
  #317
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If we're going to add a forward, it should be a top 3. Here's my thinking. We have all talked that you need a game changer in the playoffs. That may very well be the case. It would put the pressure on the other team to try to shut that line down and in the process, other lines face lesser defensive combos. It would probably help the PP even more but I'm not sure we need to tweak that right now as it's been the best I've ever seen it. Now to the point I'm trying to state.

If we add another top 6, where do we play that person? The Fisher line has been pretty solid as of late. The Legwand line has been producing and you could possibly replace Hornqvist with the person coming in. The Spaling line is exactly what you want out of your third line come the playoffs. So of the top 9 forwards, who do you bump down? Bourque IMO has earned his spot. Tootoo and Spaling with Bourque have great cycling ability and that's key in wearing teams down in the playoffs. We're not going to add a top 6 and put him on the fourth line although a top 6 with Smith and Halischuk wouldn't suck. While adding more talent is always a plus, I'm not sure where we plug that person into the lineup.

So, if we have the chance to land a top 3, my preference has always been Parise, it makes Hornqvist expendable as Parise is a more skilled version of Hornqvist. You package him with Lindback and Blum and that should get it done for a rental. Maybe even just Hornqvist, Lindback or Blum plus a 1st should get it done too since it's a rental. We go to the playoffs with what we have now, add Parise and subtract Hornqvist, that's a pretty solid team if you ask me. I think we have a solid team now.

Sometimes its better to not do anything than to do something because you think you have to. The reason, IMHO, that the team has been playing better is multi-tiered. The PP is clicking, the PK has been way better in recent weeks, Rinne is playing like Rinne again, Josi and Ellis have solidified the bottom two pairings(Klein and Boullion are not having to handle the puck as much), every game it seems someone or some line is stepping it up(Fisher's line lately, before that Spaling's line, Legwand's earlier in the season). Once again, how many teams boast the depth we have 1-12 up front? While we don't have the elite talent, we are an extremely deep team up front and with a ton of tenacity and speed. That will eat teams alive come the playoffs because while it gets more physical in the playoffs, we'll be able to skate circles around people. When was the last time you see a team with this many players with 10+ goals and across 4 lines?

Personally, if we do feel the need for a move, a top 3 makes more sense to me as just a top 6 isn't going to fit into the lineup we have right now.

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01-25-2012, 09:44 PM
  #318
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Glen, I think it is clear that Hornqvist does not truly belong in the top 6 at even strength. Ditto Mike Fisher to be honest. If you wanted a Predators roster at its finest, you slot in another top 6 center and winger, push Fisher onto a third line, and you would legitimately have four very good lines with specialty teams evening out minutes. Fisher is going to still get 18-20 minutes on the third line. Hornqvist is going to be a lock on the powerplay. Spaling will take key faceoffs, all kinds of PK time, and play a vital role on a sneaky good fourth line.

That's just my 2 cents. Realistically, I think Hornqvist gets moved down if we do acquire a winger.

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01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
  #319
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and yet, our need when you stand us up comparatively and objectively, isn't scoring, it's a big-body to play with Ellis (or Blum) on our 3rd pair.

A top-end F would be gr8, a C to move Fish and/or Spals down and Smithson to the bench would be gr8, but objectively, it wouldn't appear to address our weakness.

Gleason, etc - won't cost us much and changes things considerably; adding Ruutu or whomever makes us a little better in an area that won't help us overcome the true weakness in the 3rd pair, and I'm not sure even a Parise-type does.

remember - we add a Parise and get a PPG, but Horny or someone moves down and becomes less productive. So, maybe we net an extra half-PPG; woopee - unless Sutes and Weber are gonna' play 30mins every night and Josi makes no more rookie mistakes 20 games into his career, that 3rd pair is VERY exploitable for their 15mins on the ice, and when it's all PO caliber teams, that exploitation of that pair is gonna' cancel out that half-PPG, IMHO.

We all cringed every time Co*y Franson was on the ice last year; everyone joked about his "protected" minutes - but we had SOB back there with him. Sure, Ellis is better than Co*y, but right now, not all that much defensively, and Cube/Hillen is a significant downgrade from SOB, his antics/discipline issues not-withstanding.

We want a run; it's the upgrade at D that's gonna' make the difference, and the bonus is it won't mortgage the future.

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01-26-2012, 10:36 AM
  #320
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and yet, our need when you stand us up comparatively and objectively, isn't scoring, it's a big-body to play with Ellis (or Blum) on our 3rd pair.

A top-end F would be gr8, a C to move Fish and/or Spals down and Smithson to the bench would be gr8, but objectively, it wouldn't appear to address our weakness.

Gleason, etc - won't cost us much and changes things considerably; adding Ruutu or whomever makes us a little better in an area that won't help us overcome the true weakness in the 3rd pair, and I'm not sure even a Parise-type does.

remember - we add a Parise and get a PPG, but Horny or someone moves down and becomes less productive. So, maybe we net an extra half-PPG; woopee - unless Sutes and Weber are gonna' play 30mins every night and Josi makes no more rookie mistakes 20 games into his career, that 3rd pair is VERY exploitable for their 15mins on the ice, and when it's all PO caliber teams, that exploitation of that pair is gonna' cancel out that half-PPG, IMHO.

We all cringed every time Co*y Franson was on the ice last year; everyone joked about his "protected" minutes - but we had SOB back there with him. Sure, Ellis is better than Co*y, but right now, not all that much defensively, and Cube/Hillen is a significant downgrade from SOB, his antics/discipline issues not-withstanding.

We want a run; it's the upgrade at D that's gonna' make the difference, and the bonus is it won't mortgage the future.
I think if we want to make it to round 2, and definitely beyond, we need both. Top six forward and solid number 4 d-man. Both are glaring weaknesses, IMO.

The comparison is made to Boston last year, but Boston also had legit first liners as part of their "balanced attack:" Lucic, Krejci, Bergeron are all top 3 forwards on most teams in the league. Contrast that to us--no one in our top six is a true first liner. Like in years past, where scoring was an issue in the playoffs(Ducks series and their third string goaltender\horrible defensive depth not withstanding), we have two second lines. we DO have a fourth line that could be construed as an extra third line...but that still leaves us set up as 2/2/3/3. I'm not sure that's good enough.

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01-26-2012, 11:00 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think if we want to make it to round 2, and definitely beyond, we need both. Top six forward and solid number 4 d-man. Both are glaring weaknesses, IMO.

The comparison is made to Boston last year, but Boston also had legit first liners as part of their "balanced attack:" Lucic, Krejci, Bergeron are all top 3 forwards on most teams in the league. Contrast that to us--no one in our top six is a true first liner. Like in years past, where scoring was an issue in the playoffs(Ducks series and their third string goaltender\horrible defensive depth not withstanding), we have two second lines. we DO have a fourth line that could be construed as an extra third line...but that still leaves us set up as 2/2/3/3. I'm not sure that's good enough.
Listening to slap shot radio last night. Erat is approaching ppg status ... I want to say 60 points in his last 67 games, I believe were the numbers

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01-27-2012, 11:42 AM
  #322
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I hope Poile has some appointments planned with Suter's agent up in Ottawa this weekend.

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01-27-2012, 03:30 PM
  #323
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Time to put Suter on the block ... Jesus Christ, I really hate the fact that we are such a small market team

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01-27-2012, 03:30 PM
  #324
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tweets from pierre lebrun at all star game.
"Ryan Suter just said during his media availability that he doesn't think he'll sign before trade deadline... Feel it would be distraction..
But I would also say Suter sounded like a guy who loves it in Nashville and will give the Preds very much a fair chance before July 1"

been there, done that.......weber all over again.......don't believe a word Suter is saying, he's just playing to the media.


frankly, i think playing this hand, this way, is hamstringing poile......who for all his faults has seemingly always acted with integrity...

this "prove it to us" blackmail........pox on both your houses.....play it out in private and don't lie to the fans.

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01-27-2012, 03:34 PM
  #325
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The distraction stuff is nonsense. What is a publicly played out contract "negotiation" and rampant trade rumors?

He showed his hand in a later quote, when asked if he's waiting to see what Nashville does at the deadline: "Yeah, part of me..."

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