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Cole on Subban: Selfishness

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Old
01-26-2012, 12:45 AM
  #51
andy28
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You know, I didn't think it was that bad either. I was actually surprised that he got called for it. Whatever, I know Ray Ferraro thought it was terrible and so did the coaches and obviously his teammates so... I guess it was bad.
Yup. Everything PK does is blown out of proportion, but at the same time he also does need some discipline. He was one of the most penalized players last year. Nothing wrong with trying to send a message to him while he is young, and with a cozy 4-0 lead after the first we could actually afford to do it.

It's too bad about the media though. They make everything ten times worse. But Subban is an awesome player, with a tremendous skillset. He won't be getting shipped out. Too much of a bright future for the kid.

I really don't see the S. Kost comparisons at all. Kosty was a guy who I thought had real attitude problems. Subban is a real competitor who will learn.

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01-26-2012, 12:45 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
If that's what Cole said, he's an idiot.

You don't call a teammate out. If anything, say it to his face.
The whole team probably already said it to his face.

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01-26-2012, 12:52 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
Subban for Huberdeau. Just do it.
GTFO Troll.

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01-26-2012, 01:02 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
The whole team probably already said it to his face.
And I'm sure they did. And he's not getting it. So being called out by the true leader...Cole...should show him that he needs to straighten out his ****. There is something wrong with PK and it's not just the media. Sorry if it hurts the fanboys feelings and all, but multiple players are calling him out. He needs to get his ****ing head screwed on straight or he will be shipped out. This is a team, not a PK ****ing **** show.

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01-26-2012, 01:16 AM
  #55
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Kind of funny to see people who have been claiming that nothing's wrong with Subban are suddenly uncomfortable with Cole's declarations... No fan should complain about this. Cole is a gritty forward, our best winger this year and a veteran of many seasons in the NHL. Damn right this guy has a right to call out anyone on the team.

We really need to stop defending the kid. He has a lot to learn and he, by all accounts, has some maturity and attitude problems. There's no point in sticking our fingers in our ears. We shouldn't idolize him the way we've been doing; he has yet to accomplish anything in the NHL. We're just sending a contradictory message.

I'll side with the ex-coach and the players who clearly think he needs to change. We should stop cheering whenever Subban touches the puck and treat him like any other player until he learns his place. Frankly, even at his best, he's not even what I'd call the team's franchise player (that's Price), so learning his place is clearly something he needs to do.

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01-26-2012, 01:20 AM
  #56
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You know what I love about this board? Everyone without exception *****es about how horrible the media is in dissecting every little detail of the team. Even crap that's completely dumb or irrelevant. All the while doing the exact same thing here. Whenever the smallest thing happens, it takes less than 6 seconds before a thread goes up and fills with 20 pages worth of replies.

The hypocrisy is flowing like the Saint Laurent river and the blinders are on. It really is unbelievable to watch.

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01-26-2012, 01:25 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mr_Lyle View Post
You know what I love about this board? Everyone without exception *****es about how horrible the media is in dissecting every little detail of the team.
I get what you are saying, but at the same time the media takes it to another level, and I don't think it is outlandish to hold them to a higher standard than fans on a discussion board.

Subban got a hell of a lot of attention last year. I remember TSN doing a big story on the triple low fives, which is not really all that newsworthy.

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01-26-2012, 01:39 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
I get what you are saying, but at the same time the media takes it to another level, and I don't think it is outlandish to hold them to a higher standard than fans on a discussion board.

Subban got a hell of a lot of attention last year. I remember TSN doing a big story on the triple low fives, which is not really all that newsworthy.
No, no. Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't commenting on the whole Subban drama in particular. I was making a general observation about what happens on this board whenever anything Habs related happens. Not matter how small or irrelevant it is. We dissect it in MUCH more detail than the media does. If you don't think so, you need to read more closely. And then we go and complain about the media as if what they're doing is somehow any different. It isn't. The only difference between us and the media is that the media has a much wider reach where as nobody really cares what we have to say other than us. But when it comes down to it, what they do and what we do is exactly the same thing.

Whether or not you like how things are handled is besides the point. Let's not pretend that if this board had reach as wide as the media's, that we wouldn't be the cause of the drama that we attribute to the media and complain so much about. We're no better than them, so we really shouldn't complain about them.


Last edited by Mr_Lyle: 01-26-2012 at 02:19 AM.
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01-26-2012, 01:41 AM
  #59
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When Cole was 22, he was in the IHL still. Subban is only in his 3rd pro yr. With him, making a mistake is selfish. For others, its poor play. He's overworked because the GM didnt acquire another dman instead of re-signing Markov. Insert Markov in the lineup and it would take a huge load off of Subban and you'd likely see improved play. These guys are asking way too much of him at this point in his career.

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01-26-2012, 01:55 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Lyle View Post
No, no. Don't misunderstand me. I wasn't commenting on the whole Subban drama in particular. I was making a general observation about what happens on this board whenever anything Habs related happens. Not matter how small or irrelevant it is. We dissect it in MUCH more detail than anything the media does. If you don't think so, you need to read more closely. And then we go and complain about the media as if what they're doing is somehow any different. It isn't. The only difference between us and the media is that the media has a much wider reach where as nobody really cares what we have to say other than us. But when it comes down to it, what they do and what we do is exactly the same thing.

Whether or not you like how things are handled is besides the point. Let's not pretend that if this board had reach as wide as the media's, that we wouldn't be the cause of the drama that we attribute to the media and complain so much about. We're no better than them, so we really shouldn't complain about them.
ya but his point was that we as posters are not spewing our 'propaganda' to millions of people. discussions on here are pretty much private. the media, being held to a higher standard have the ability to feed what they want to the casual fan joe public.

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01-26-2012, 02:03 AM
  #61
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Nobody gave a rats ass last year when Subban was being "selfish" and "flashy"

Now that he's not scoring his selfishness and flash are becoming an issue? Get over it. Yea he needs some work, but throwing him under the bus because you ask him to change overnight is not going to help either.

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01-26-2012, 02:05 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
ya but his point was that the we as posters are not spewing our 'propaganda' to millions of people. discussions on here are pretty much private. the media, being held to a higher standard has the ability to feed what they want to the casual fan joe public.

Well, yes. That's clearly the case, and I did mention it. However, let's fast forward 50 years shall we. Traditional media is dead or dying, most people get their news from the internet and hfboards becomes the biggest forum for hockey in the entire world. You want news and opinion on hockey? You come here because that's where all the fans are. In this scenario (which isn't that far fetched btw), is the behavior we currently display on this board acceptable? Or do we just become the new media and the tradition goes on through another medium? Do we hold ourselves to a higher standard? Probably not, everything will continue to go on exactly as it does now. We'll have effectively become the new "media" and be the cause of all the crap we attribute to them now. If we find that kind of behavior isn't acceptable to us in that scenario, it also shouldn't really be acceptable the way things are now.

Of course, I'm not expecting things to change in either scenario. This is Montreal and we're talking about the Habs, hehe.

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01-26-2012, 02:12 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Mr_Lyle View Post
You know what I love about this board? Everyone without exception *****es about how horrible the media is in dissecting every little detail of the team. Even crap that's completely dumb or irrelevant. All the while doing the exact same thing here. Whenever the smallest thing happens, it takes less than 6 seconds before a thread goes up and fills with 20 pages worth of replies.

The hypocrisy is flowing like the Saint Laurent river and the blinders are on. It really is unbelievable to watch.
Agreed, well put.

And also I hate how people give way too much importance to the media regarding how the team performs. The game is played on the ice, those guys are professionals, they're not thinking about what's going on with the media when they're playing. If the team sucks, it's not because of the media, it's because the team sucks. I'm tired of all the whining and excuses.

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01-26-2012, 02:22 AM
  #64
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i think that most of us here have no credible credentials to flaunt and people coming here for news read things in the context of fan opinions. which is not to say that there is not a healthy abundance of really good posters on here who can contribute while having different opinions because they are able to discuss things in a cival manner. even at that, i think that in your plausible/semi hypothetical/semi present reality of larger masses flocking to HF for news and what not, people can still decipher what they're reading between a journalist and a poster. they take more seriously someone who is writing for a website, not just on one. although there are a lot of bright posters who are seemingly eons more levelheaded than half the clowns writing around town with their agendas and egos...

so to answer your question, yeah i think what goes on on the boards is acceptable. trolls will always be around, and IMO are needed and don't take away from constructive conversations. it's not like trolls are audibly yelling between your conversations, they are merely posts. i read them, i chuckle, and i continue on following the topic at hand. because the internet should be entertainment above all else and i think there is more than enough good quality content and discussion (doesn't have to be great american novel posts, 9 pages between 2 posters), and all kinds of different thought processes, and good points to be brought up by any side. i always start in the middle in terms of view. and i can always find things that are interesting or that give a different perspective on something to consider. but if people stopped getting all insulted all the time over the smallest things though, this could still be a happier place.


Last edited by HarlemsFinest: 01-26-2012 at 02:30 AM.
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01-26-2012, 02:59 AM
  #65
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He's a 22 year old who has been assigned the duties of the #1Dman for the Montreal Canadians. People talk **** because he makes lots of mistakes (as young players naturally do), but his ice time speaks for itself. He is the 1st iin Average Time On Ice with 23:43, over a full minute ahead of the 2nd place Gorges with 22:32. The fact is that he is not getting traded, and the coaching and players are trying to get PK focused on overcoming his growing pains faster than others would need to in more limited roles.

The scrutiny this 22 year old is under is enormous, obviously Price and him have an affinity for each other and no doubt its related to their shared experience in the intense spotlight. Price has been dealing with it for longer and more capable of adapting, but as we all remember he did have a sophmore slump of his own.


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01-26-2012, 03:08 AM
  #66
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Give Cole the interim C, seriously. He hasn't taken a shift off in months. I was thrilled with the signing, but didn't expect him to be this good. If he's calling out PK, great. I've defended PK, and think his potential is to be an elite player, but he's taken too many bs penalties while the team has been on the powerplay this season, and if it pisses us off watching, imagine how much it pisses off a guy like Cole who is on the ice trying to help the weakest part of the team get better.

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01-26-2012, 03:28 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

It wasn't just Cole, Gorges said the same thing at intermission. Both vets are trying to send a message. Hopefully it's constructive and it's taken the right way.
Would anyone have the exact quote or close to exact?
(the quote from Cole, Gorges and maybe even Price).

Thanks.


IF (I wrote IF) Subban is selfish and takes ridiculous penalties, then he has to STOP taking dumb penalties NOW. Some of those penalties he takes are ridiculous/selfish (and I'm a huge Subban fan). We need Subban out there on ice and not in the penalty box for a stupid penalty.

I'm starting to think Subban may need to eat a lot of HUMBLE PIE. He may have a GOD COMPLEX. He may need to spend more time volunteering at a Children's Hospital (Markov definitely needs that too). Of course I could be wrong about Subban. And for the record...I'm a huge huge Subban fan.

Gorges...Cole: they seem like very humble and down-to-earth guys...IF (I wrote IF) what they said is true...I'm believing them.

Still...I'd take Subban anyday over Andrei ''never there but collecting $5.75mil/year'' Markov.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 01-26-2012 at 03:39 AM.
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01-26-2012, 03:45 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
If anyone could've said that in the room, it's ****ing Erik Cole. I like it.

The only thing that upset me on the Subban situation is the media always making a big deal on every action by Subban.

I guess we should give PG some credit, he brought him here. Not to open a should PG stay or should he go debate, that was all GOAT. He still bugs me, but he did bring Cole to Montreal.

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01-26-2012, 03:48 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SAKS AVENUE View Post
I guess we should give PG some credit, he brought him here. Not to open a should PG stay or should he go debate, that was all GOAT. He still bugs me, but he did bring Cole to Montreal.
We had to bring him to Montreal to stop him from scoring on us.


Last edited by andy28: 01-26-2012 at 04:27 AM.
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01-26-2012, 03:52 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
i think that most of us here have no credible credentials to flaunt and people coming here for news read things in the context of fan opinions. which is not to say that there is not a healthy abundance of really good posters on here who can contribute while having different opinions because they are able to discuss things in a cival manner. even at that, i think that in your plausible/semi hypothetical/semi present reality of larger masses flocking to HF for news and what not, people can still decipher what they're reading between a journalist and a poster. they take more seriously someone who is writing for a website, not just on one. although there are a lot of bright posters who are seemingly eons more levelheaded than half the clowns writing around town with their agendas and egos...

so to answer your question, yeah i think what goes on on the boards is acceptable. trolls will always be around, and IMO are needed and don't take away from constructive conversations. it's not like trolls are audibly yelling between your conversations, they are merely posts. i read them, i chuckle, and i continue on following the topic at hand. because the internet should be entertainment above all else and i think there is more than enough good quality content and discussion (doesn't have to be great american novel posts, 9 pages between 2 posters), and all kinds of different thought processes, and good points to be brought up by any side. i always start in the middle in terms of view. and i can always find things that are interesting or that give a different perspective on something to consider. but if people stopped getting all insulted all the time over the smallest things though, this could still be a happier place.
Good post man. A happier place? Well, none of us are happy right now. What I look for is a civil, intelligent and intense board, and you know what, it usually is. Due to posters like you and most others here, and the Mods.

I often wonder what this board would be like had we had it in the the 70's. Man. I think we would have gotten bored with the happiness! Or:

Robinson screwed up! Gainey was terrible! Dryden sucked! We only won 3-2!, Against the Caps!

We'll have our cup, then we can be a happy place until the following year, when we debate endlessly again!

No probs with that.

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01-26-2012, 04:28 AM
  #71
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As painful as it has been to watch Gomez at times in his tenure in Montreal, you can never question the fact that he cares, and is a professional. I am very happy for him in that he seems to have found a nice groove since returning to the lineup.


Glad to see some support.

It's just been way to easy to **** on Gomez like everyone does.
If Gomez gets **** on, then Markov should be **** on even more.

I love Gomez's attitude and as long as he is a Hab I want him to succeed.

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01-26-2012, 04:32 AM
  #72
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When players as well as coaches and the media say these things there must be something to it. His youth is a poor excuse. PK isn't 18, he's 22. Quite a few young NHL players are able to learn their lessons by then,
I don't understand people saying ''he will mature, he will mature''.

Taking stupid penalties...there are 35 year-old NHLers still taking stupid penalties.

Subban's penalties...it is what it is...STUPID and SELFISH and USELESS.

The best penalty a dman can take is when a goal was almost scored but the dman at last second took a penalty to stop the goal...this is a penalty that many coaches can forgive and even be thankful for.

We need Subban on ice and not in the ****ing penalty box (23:43 ice-time...the most of any Hab).

Huge Subban fan...but I can't stand his ****ing dumb penalties.
He has got to smarten up. Quit all the me-me-me ego talk and play amazing hockey like he can is what he should ****ing do. And...eat lots of ****ing humble pie.

Go Subban Go.
Play hockey and shut the **** up.
We need you to help our Habs so shut the **** up, play solid hockey and stop taking ****ing stupid penalties that penalize the entire team.

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01-26-2012, 04:34 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Would anyone have the exact quote or close to exact?
(the quote from Cole, Gorges and maybe even Price).

Thanks.
IIRC Gorges said something like (Totally paraphrasing) "If you aren't going to play a certain way you'll sit."

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01-26-2012, 04:42 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
The whole team probably already said it to his face.
Didn't Gill call Subban an ***-**** several times last year? (as a joke or not he still did call him that).

Gill probably got fed up of baby-sitting Subban.

Someone needs to let Subban know that he will not live forever...no one does. Humble pie is needed.


Gorges and Cole seem very humble.
Subban needs some of that.




Subban + Weber FOR Drew Doughty + 2nd Rnd Pick

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01-26-2012, 04:51 AM
  #75
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However, let's fast forward 50 years shall we. Traditional media is dead or dying, most people get their news from the internet and hfboards becomes the biggest forum for hockey in the entire world. You want news and opinion on hockey? You come here because that's where all the fans are. In this scenario (which isn't that far fetched btw), is the behavior we currently display on this board acceptable? Or do we just become the new media and the tradition goes on through another medium? Do we hold ourselves to a higher standard? Probably not, everything will continue to go on exactly as it does now. We'll have effectively become the new "media" and be the cause of all the crap we attribute to them now. If we find that kind of behavior isn't acceptable to us in that scenario, it also shouldn't really be acceptable the way things are now.
Sorry but that scenario is far-fetched. As long as there is a paid media, then most people will recognize the difference between paid media sources and public comment. Even on this board, things aren't generally considered news unless there is a link to a recognized media outlet and not somebody's blog or tweet.

I agree that fans frequently overact to much of what happens. However, let's not forget that "fan" is short for "fanatic" and part of being a fan is the emotion that goes with supporting one's team. And there are also literally thousands of people posting on this message board, each of whom has a right to their opinion or choice of words for expressing it or simply to spout off.

So no, people here don't have to live up to the same standard that we expect of the media. People have a right to complain (and tune out or stop buying) if newspaper columnists or TV analysts are not being responsible because we directly or indirectly are paying for those people to write or air their comments. But the internet in general and fan message boards in particular are the worst place to expect any sort of quality control.

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