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Cole on Subban: Selfishness

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Old
01-26-2012, 06:24 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
IIRC Gorges said something like (Totally paraphrasing) "If you aren't going to play a certain way you'll sit."
thanks. nothing wrong with what gorges said. it's a pretty humble simple polite way of saying ''if you're going to take stupid penalties that punish the entire team, you will sit''.

We need Subban to play the way he can without taking any penalties at all. He can do it he's just going through lazy stupid brain cramps or simply being ****ing stupid 'cause some of the penalties he takes are *****ing stupid (as simple as that).

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01-26-2012, 06:34 AM
  #77
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i am Scott Gomez, and after long thinking and reflexion, i decided to publicly says 3 very important thing that are on my hearth :

the first is veeeery important :
1) players should NEVER call out each other publicly, NEVER ... (top rule of conduct)

The second is not less important than the firs ... almost more important i would say :
2) Subban is selfish ! but i mean really SELFISH.

And the last, and not the least, i would almost say the prime ... du to its importance :
3) Cole speaks too much ... but i mean ... when he sees a journalist ... he grabs him and doesn't let him go until he feels empty !
yeahhhh Cole works like a reservoir !


ouf ... i feel better

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01-26-2012, 06:38 AM
  #78
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The thing I find funny about all this is as soon as Subban makes a mistake he sits but if someone else makes a mistake nothing happens to them. I've seen Darche, Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Gill, and especially Weber and Diaz make 100s of mistakes yet they still get their regular ice time. Gotta back off Subban and let him play. They guy. Im fine with benching him but not every single time he does something wrong. Its hockey, nobody is perfect. If that were the case we'd be 49-0 right now.

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01-26-2012, 07:22 AM
  #79
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Cole has been the model of consistency, effort, and leadership by example out there. If anyone is teflon to constructively criticising a teammate in public, it's him. Gorges falls into the same boat, and surprise surprise, both of them basically said that there's a theme to how the team is dealing with bad penalties and unruly behaviour.

It's just a shame that this couldn't be the route taken with Sergei because he needed to be told by upper management that he wasn't going to be traded and that he was going to sit and earn his ice-time until he got it through his thick, childish skull. Unfortunately, he got what he wanted and was traded away to a small market team with no microscope.

Subban needs to learn that he is a young Jedi who must make the choice of which side of the force he will choose, because he has the power to be either a high-ranking Jedi Knight, or a Sith Lord.

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01-26-2012, 07:24 AM
  #80
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Man...

I would like to flip this. Everybody out but PK. He's the only keeper of the bunch anyway....

bahahaha. Seriously though, how about one of our managers come out and defend PK. Like BG did on Price a few years ago.

It's alarming to me that people come out and crticize him publicly.

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01-26-2012, 07:41 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Phozzwald View Post
The thing I find funny about all this is as soon as Subban makes a mistake he sits but if someone else makes a mistake nothing happens to them. I've seen Darche, Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Gill, and especially Weber and Diaz make 100s of mistakes yet they still get their regular ice time. Gotta back off Subban and let him play. They guy. Im fine with benching him but not every single time he does something wrong. Its hockey, nobody is perfect. If that were the case we'd be 49-0 right now.
There is a difference between mistakes and being undisciplined. Getting dekes out by Datsyuk happens, taking a retaliation penality shouldn't...unless you're Boston at which point it's encouraged because it shows "toughness".

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01-26-2012, 07:42 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by prairie hab View Post
What Cole said regarding Subban is what should have been said by ANYONE about Cammalleri.

I'm baffled as to why so many will blindly defend Subban for his less than stellar play this season.

I've had to listen to many people bash Andrei Kostitsyn for years, but when it comes to PK he is somehow immune to criticism?

PK needs to man up and buy in. He has been a diva this season.

So Erik Cole gets a handclap
Not only do some people " blindly defend Subban " but they want to sign him to a big 4-5 million dollar contract. Now that could turn out to be the biggest mistake of all.

When Pk starts playing as part of the team and starts playing up to his skill level on a nightly basis, then give him a good contract if he really wants to stay

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01-26-2012, 07:47 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Not only do some people " blindly defend Subban " but they want to sign him to a big 4-5 million dollar contract. Now that could turn out to be the biggest mistake of all.

When Pk starts playing as part of the team and starts playing up to his skill level on a nightly basis, then give him a good contract if he really wants to stay
Contracts are not just about what a guy "deserves". It's also a business/cap decision. If you sign PK for 4-5 years at 4.5 mil cap hit, it's also because you think that in year 3-4-5 of that deal he may be playing at a 5-6-7 mil level but only taking up 4.5 mil cap hit.

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01-26-2012, 07:52 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Skarjak View Post
Kind of funny to see people who have been claiming that nothing's wrong with Subban are suddenly uncomfortable with Cole's declarations... No fan should complain about this. Cole is a gritty forward, our best winger this year and a veteran of many seasons in the NHL. Damn right this guy has a right to call out anyone on the team.

We really need to stop defending the kid. He has a lot to learn and he, by all accounts, has some maturity and attitude problems. There's no point in sticking our fingers in our ears. We shouldn't idolize him the way we've been doing; he has yet to accomplish anything in the NHL. We're just sending a contradictory message.

I'll side with the ex-coach and the players who clearly think he needs to change. We should stop cheering whenever Subban touches the puck and treat him like any other player until he learns his place. Frankly, even at his best, he's not even what I'd call the team's franchise player (that's Price), so learning his place is clearly something he needs to do.
Sounds about right, Pk really think's he's the franchise player in montreal!!
A lot of people as filled his head with ****!!! Hes 22, he will learn to be a team player or he can go **** himself .

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01-26-2012, 07:56 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Phozzwald View Post
The thing I find funny about all this is as soon as Subban makes a mistake he sits but if someone else makes a mistake nothing happens to them. I've seen Darche, Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Gill, and especially Weber and Diaz make 100s of mistakes yet they still get their regular ice time. Gotta back off Subban and let him play. They guy. Im fine with benching him but not every single time he does something wrong. Its hockey, nobody is perfect. If that were the case we'd be 49-0 right now.
It's hardly everytime Subban makes a mistake. This season mistakes are part of PK's routine. That's not meant to be as harsh a criticsm as it sounds. Everyone makes mistakes. And a player of Subban's youth and style (high risk high reward offensive defenseman) is going to make more of them than most. And on most nights Subban eats up minutes like its going out of style. On most nights he's too important to the team to be benched.

Which is, incidentally, the same reason why you never see Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Gill and Darche benched on most nights. Plekanec is too important on both offense and defense. Kostitsyn is one of our few guys that might qualify as a sniper. Darche and Gill are fixtures on our (league best) PK (and boy do we need it as we often run up the PIMs).

Last night was different. The last game going into the all-star break (no real concerns about tiring out your bench). Up 5-0 after the first (no real concerns about losing). And Subban makes a couple of stupid, selfish plays. And he's young (which means he's apt to benefit more from the sitting than a yet). So he sits. Watches the game. Maybe has a chance to see what he'd do better and to reflect on what he did wrong.

It's a gutsy move by Cunneyworth, given how the media likes to jump on any hint of dissent. But I suspect he's not concerned about controversy too much and Subban is too good a prospect to not try to teach properly.

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01-26-2012, 07:58 AM
  #86
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Correct, but you never call out your teammate like that in front of media. Especially in this city.
Yeah because we know what happened last year in Boston with Ference. Did that ever **** up their season, imagine they might have won the stanley cup.....
oh wait ....

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01-26-2012, 08:00 AM
  #87
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Contracts are not just about what a guy "deserves". It's also a business/cap decision. If you sign PK for 4-5 years at 4.5 mil cap hit, it's also because you think that in year 3-4-5 of that deal he may be playing at a 5-6-7 mil level but only taking up 4.5 mil cap hit.
the most important 2 words...."he may". Your not worthly of a big contract based on what you may be able to do down the road.
For some guys all the skill in the world may not always translate into a great hockey player. A lot a cases , a team player is more useful then a highly skilled guy with a bad attutude

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01-26-2012, 10:45 AM
  #88
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It wasn't just Cole, Gorges said the same thing at intermission. Both vets are trying to send a message. Hopefully it's constructive and it's taken the right way.
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Yeah, a veteran who is playing his heart out, isn't allowed to say anything about a player, who has a inflated ego, constantly does stupid things in a game, and has once again projected "potential" isn't allowed to be called out. Obviously its not just the "media" as alot of fanboys believe. Maybe he truely is a cancer.
Trying to send a message is taking the kid, slamming him against a locker and telling him to get his head out of his ass. Veterans complaining to the media is immature. Airing out their dirty laundry regardless of how apparent it already is to the public, is something you shouldn't do. It could create rifts in the dressing room, and can be taken personally rather than as a message to wake up. I know if I was screwing around and someone went to the media about it, I would be pissed and angry rather than be motivated to change (if someone had approached me personally).

And calm the balls down. You guys throw around the term "cancer" too often. Gomez is a cancer. Cammy is a cancer. Kovalev is a cancer. Koivu is cancer, Carbo, Martin, Gainey, Subban, Higgins, etc. etc. etc. are all people who've been called cancers here, and it's really disgusting.

Also, the whole Subban hate is ridiculous. Look at Myers, Bogosian and especially Doughty. Sophomore slumps aren't unheard of, and Subban's game is run and gun and being a rogue, flashy guy. That's what he does. Because he has bumps early on means he's learning. He plays a tough game, and he's only going to get better. Do you guys really think he's lost it? I know he'd be better on Washington, or in a more offensive team, but for the sake and love of this franchise, I pray that the same idiots who post here who want him gone don't share the mindset of the management.

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01-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Trying to send a message is taking the kid, slamming him against a locker and telling him to get his head out of his ass. Veterans complaining to the media is immature. Airing out their dirty laundry regardless of how apparent it already is to the public, is something you shouldn't do. It could create rifts in the dressing room, and can be taken personally rather than as a message to wake up. I know if I was screwing around and someone went to the media about it, I would be pissed and angry rather than be motivated to change (if someone had approached me personally).

And calm the balls down. You guys throw around the term "cancer" too often. Gomez is a cancer. Cammy is a cancer. Kovalev is a cancer. Koivu is cancer, Carbo, Martin, Gainey, Subban, Higgins, etc. etc. etc. are all people who've been called cancers here, and it's really disgusting.

Also, the whole Subban hate is ridiculous. Look at Myers, Bogosian and especially Doughty. Sophomore slumps aren't unheard of, and Subban's game is run and gun and being a rogue, flashy guy. That's what he does. Because he has bumps early on means he's learning. He plays a tough game, and he's only going to get better. Do you guys really think he's lost it? I know he'd be better on Washington, or in a more offensive team, but for the sake and love of this franchise, I pray that the same idiots who post here who want him gone don't share the mindset of the management.


I think there is a HUGE difference between "wanting him gone" and "wanting him to calm down and deflate his big head".

The kid is intelligent enough to get it at some point.. He,s an important part of this team, and the word is TEAM. As long as PK doesn't understand that basic proinciple, he will struggle and get **** not only from his opponents but also his teamates and coaches...and fans.

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01-26-2012, 11:10 AM
  #90
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That's fine, Cole has been having a great season and has been a good influence on other young players like MaxPac. Subban just has to open up his mind to the fact he has to play a team game and in time he will be a star.

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01-26-2012, 11:21 AM
  #91
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Really don't see what the big deal is..

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01-26-2012, 11:31 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Trying to send a message is taking the kid, slamming him against a locker and telling him to get his head out of his ass. Veterans complaining to the media is immature. Airing out their dirty laundry regardless of how apparent it already is to the public, is something you shouldn't do. It could create rifts in the dressing room, and can be taken personally rather than as a message to wake up. I know if I was screwing around and someone went to the media about it, I would be pissed and angry rather than be motivated to change (if someone had approached me personally).

And calm the balls down. You guys throw around the term "cancer" too often. Gomez is a cancer. Cammy is a cancer. Kovalev is a cancer. Koivu is cancer, Carbo, Martin, Gainey, Subban, Higgins, etc. etc. etc. are all people who've been called cancers here, and it's really disgusting.

Also, the whole Subban hate is ridiculous. Look at Myers, Bogosian and especially Doughty. Sophomore slumps aren't unheard of, and Subban's game is run and gun and being a rogue, flashy guy. That's what he does. Because he has bumps early on means he's learning. He plays a tough game, and he's only going to get better. Do you guys really think he's lost it? I know he'd be better on Washington, or in a more offensive team, but for the sake and love of this franchise, I pray that the same idiots who post here who want him gone don't share the mindset of the management.
Well-said Jack. It seems the habs have a monopoly on young cancerous hockey players. No other organization has the amount of cancers we have identified since 2008-2009. Maybe we should exercise a little bit of caution/patience or start drafting different types of players.

If all these youngsters are the volatile, cancerous group they're made out to be, maybe the organizational vetting process is lacking. I don't believe this part to be true, but come on, a kid growing up is not a cancer, he is a kid. I am truly beginning to grow tired of this organization and some of those who drink the rds kool-aid, you're getting on my nerves.

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01-26-2012, 11:32 AM
  #93
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the most important 2 words...."he may". Your not worthly of a big contract based on what you may be able to do down the road.
For some guys all the skill in the world may not always translate into a great hockey player. A lot a cases , a team player is more useful then a highly skilled guy with a bad attutude
Well every GM in the NHL seems to disagree bro.

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01-26-2012, 11:34 AM
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Well-said Jack. It seems the habs have a monopoly on young cancerous hockey players. No other organization has the amount of cancers we have identified since 2008-2009. Maybe we should exercise a little bit of caution/patience or start drafting different types of players.

If all these youngsters are the volatile, cancerous group they're made out to be, maybe the organizational vetting process is lacking. I don't believe this part to be true, but come on, a kid growing up is not a cancer, he is a kid. I am truly beginning to grow tired of this organization and some of those who drink the rds kool-aid, you're getting on my nerves.
Agreed.

You would think what with all the cancer this team would get treatment

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01-26-2012, 11:36 AM
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Well-said Jack. It seems the habs have a monopoly on young cancerous hockey players. No other organization has the amount of cancers we have identified since 2008-2009. Maybe we should exercise a little bit of caution/patience or start drafting different types of players.

If all these youngsters are the volatile, cancerous group they're made out to be, maybe the organizational vetting process is lacking. I don't believe this part to be true, but come on, a kid growing up is not a cancer, he is a kid. I am truly beginning to grow tired of this organization and some of those who drink the rds kool-aid, you're getting on my nerves.
Which of his teamates or coaches said actually that he is a "CANCER" ? NONE.

That's what is important. Not the medias, not the fans who know nothing about what's going on behind closed doors.

All we know is that PK is marching to his own drum beat.

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01-26-2012, 11:39 AM
  #96
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Seems like Subban is the only one who has these rules. There are like 5+ players on any given night who could use a benching.

I don't get hockey coaches most of the time anyway. You draft an athletic offensive defenceman and try to make him play like Hal Gill. Just draft a Hal Gill.

"Player we drafted because of his speed and excitement is trying to use his speed and be exciting. Time to crack the whip because that's surely the ONLY way to develop a player."

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01-26-2012, 11:40 AM
  #97
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Seems like Subban is the only one who has these rules. There are like 5+ players on any given night who could use a benching.
Who are taking selfish penalties on a regular basis ?

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01-26-2012, 11:45 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Phozzwald View Post
The thing I find funny about all this is as soon as Subban makes a mistake he sits but if someone else makes a mistake nothing happens to them. I've seen Darche, Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Gill, and especially Weber and Diaz make 100s of mistakes yet they still get their regular ice time. Gotta back off Subban and let him play. They guy. Im fine with benching him but not every single time he does something wrong. Its hockey, nobody is perfect. If that were the case we'd be 49-0 right now.
huh... you're aware they havent played all the games right ?

it's the FIRST time he's been benched like that...

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01-26-2012, 11:48 AM
  #99
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Agreed.

You would think what with all the cancer this team would get treatment
Not just the youngsters either, even vets like Cammy. If they question the organization they are detrimental to success? I don't get it tbh. I wasn't the biggest Cammy fan, but even JM said they had conversations about philosophy, but there was mutual respect from both sides. What is so wrong about that?

The media/fan base has a lot to do with this, but we need a steadfast GM who won't bow to this kind of crap. I'm not sure who it should be, but I think PG on an individual move by move basis hasn't been terrible, but he doesn't instill confidence in me at all. I'd like a GM who challenges the media when they pick their new scape goat ect and protects their players as a whole. I don't find PG ever does that, same with Cunneyworth, threw the coach he hired completely under the bus days after hiring him. It seems kind of a ridiculous way for a pro to run things, but hey, I'm just a negative fan.

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01-26-2012, 11:49 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Trying to send a message is taking the kid, slamming him against a locker and telling him to get his head out of his ass. Veterans complaining to the media is immature. Airing out their dirty laundry regardless of how apparent it already is to the public, is something you shouldn't do. It could create rifts in the dressing room, and can be taken personally rather than as a message to wake up. I know if I was screwing around and someone went to the media about it, I would be pissed and angry rather than be motivated to change (if someone had approached me personally).

And calm the balls down. You guys throw around the term "cancer" too often. Gomez is a cancer. Cammy is a cancer. Kovalev is a cancer. Koivu is cancer, Carbo, Martin, Gainey, Subban, Higgins, etc. etc. etc. are all people who've been called cancers here, and it's really disgusting.

Also, the whole Subban hate is ridiculous. Look at Myers, Bogosian and especially Doughty. Sophomore slumps aren't unheard of, and Subban's game is run and gun and being a rogue, flashy guy. That's what he does. Because he has bumps early on means he's learning. He plays a tough game, and he's only going to get better. Do you guys really think he's lost it? I know he'd be better on Washington, or in a more offensive team, but for the sake and love of this franchise, I pray that the same idiots who post here who want him gone don't share the mindset of the management.
I would say that PK isn't even in a sophomore slump.
I think people are just incapable of properly evaluating the kid.

The number of board battles he wins, the plays he breaks up, the way he breaks out and moves the puck so well. People can't even see the nice plays. They only focus on the bad, because the bad is analyzed about a million times more than the good plays. Media don't talk about the good. They might point out a good play, here and there. They'll say it was a great play, and then move on.
A mistake however, is repeated non stop.

I'm actually pleased with PK's season. His offensive production is not as good, but defensively he's been pretty good if you look at the big picture, as opposed to mistakes.

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