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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III

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Old
01-26-2012, 02:34 AM
  #226
Jason Lewis
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It sounds good in principal. It really does. I just see it as a little weak return for Columbus.

Nash goes back to being a one man team without Carter. The defensemen they'll take

but Bernier I don't think they would at all. They still have Steve Mason, and while he has struggled, a ton of that has to do with what a crap defense they put in front of the guy. At 23 I think they are still banking on him finding his game in Columbus, and rightfully so. They got to start building a better backend.

This team is in shambles really when you look how they are built. A few solid forwards and then the rest is filled in with garbage players. A few good Dmen..maybe one or two and the rest are garbage.

That's one thing I will credit us for....we don't have forward depth..but we have one of the best goaltending tandems and one of the best defenses in the league.

Columbus has half assed everything.

I'd say a more likely proposal IF IF IF...Columbus would even move Carter, which I don't think they will, the guy has hardly had a chance to make an impact given injuries...and Columbus has banked a lot on him by dealing high draft picks and Voracek and shouldn't give up on this yet...

the following would likely be more intriguing.

Carter

for

Loktionov
Forbort or Voynov
one of Mitchell/Scuderi/Greene

They would get a great shut down dman, a choice of a young shutdown dman or an O-dman and a 2nd line center.

Then you're looking at their lineup and it looks pretty nice actually.

Prospal - Vermette - Nash
Umberger - Loktionov - Johansen
Brassard - Pahlsson - Dorsett
Russel - Mackenzie - Boll

Tyutin - Lebda
Voynov - Mitchell/Scuderi/Greene
Johnson - Clitsome

Mason
Sanford



I mean it's not a rock solid line up by any means, but that's a good decent top 4 on D...a pretty good top 6, and there are some quality players on the bottom 6 as well.

Then in a few years you have Forbort if you want the shut downer.

I'd be more inclined to do that deal for Carter in a heartbeat if I were Columbus's GM. It's starting to build things in the right way for them.

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Old
01-26-2012, 09:14 AM
  #227
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Do not want to give up big time assets for 10 years of Carter. DL should stay away...

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Old
01-26-2012, 09:32 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
It sounds good in principal. It really does. I just see it as a little weak return for Columbus.

Nash goes back to being a one man team without Carter. The defensemen they'll take

but Bernier I don't think they would at all. They still have Steve Mason, and while he has struggled, a ton of that has to do with what a crap defense they put in front of the guy. At 23 I think they are still banking on him finding his game in Columbus, and rightfully so. They got to start building a better backend.

This team is in shambles really when you look how they are built. A few solid forwards and then the rest is filled in with garbage players. A few good Dmen..maybe one or two and the rest are garbage.

That's one thing I will credit us for....we don't have forward depth..but we have one of the best goaltending tandems and one of the best defenses in the league.

Columbus has half assed everything.

I'd say a more likely proposal IF IF IF...Columbus would even move Carter, which I don't think they will, the guy has hardly had a chance to make an impact given injuries...and Columbus has banked a lot on him by dealing high draft picks and Voracek and shouldn't give up on this yet...

the following would likely be more intriguing.

Carter

for

Loktionov
Forbort or Voynov
one of Mitchell/Scuderi/Greene

They would get a great shut down dman, a choice of a young shutdown dman or an O-dman and a 2nd line center.

Then you're looking at their lineup and it looks pretty nice actually.

Prospal - Vermette - Nash
Umberger - Loktionov - Johansen
Brassard - Pahlsson - Dorsett
Russel - Mackenzie - Boll

Tyutin - Lebda
Voynov - Mitchell/Scuderi/Greene
Johnson - Clitsome

Mason
Sanford



I mean it's not a rock solid line up by any means, but that's a good decent top 4 on D...a pretty good top 6, and there are some quality players on the bottom 6 as well.

Then in a few years you have Forbort if you want the shut downer.

I'd be more inclined to do that deal for Carter in a heartbeat if I were Columbus's GM. It's starting to build things in the right way for them.

From the Jackets beat writer. He's pretty credible:
Quote:
A new goaltender for next season is a certainty.
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...h-jackets.html

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Old
01-26-2012, 09:54 AM
  #229
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It's hard to imagine Carter being the guy that puts us over the top.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:05 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
It's hard to imagine Carter being the guy that puts us over the top.

Yeah, I don't see it either. Other than Pronger, I think there's a definite reason he and Richards were broken up. It may be unwise to reunite them.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:10 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Not sure if the Blue Jackets will receive the same equivalent package that they dealt to acquire Jeff Carter (Jakub Voracek, a 1st (8th overall) and a 3rd).

If the Kings were to string together a similar package, I would say Bernier is about equal to Voracek, a former 1st round selection who still has some potential to live up to who has had a so-so career thus far. If they insist on another forward, then the next closest option would be Andrei Loktionov.

With Columbus only having given up one roster player and two draft picks for Carter, I imagine a combination of Bernier along with a decent defense prospect or young defenseman from the roster and another roster player (for salary cap reasons) would be fair compensation.

Bernier or Loktionov
One of Martinez, Hickey or Forbort (or LA's 1st in 2012)
One of Penner or Stoll

for

Jeff Carter
Curtis Sanford (to serve as a backup until the end of the season, as he is a UFA this summer. That is if Columbus is interested in Bernier)

That's a trade I'd make any day. I would pair Carter with Kopitar and Brown and have Williams with Richards and hopefully another player at LW acquired at the deadline who could fill a top six role. If Penner is moved as part of a package, then I'd try to move Stoll for another soon to be UFA.

Maybe Kostitsyn. Although I imagine Montreal would ask for more than just Stoll. Ruutu I would love to have but Carolina isn't going to swap him for another rental. They'd be interested in prospects and/or young players who can step in and make an impact, or high draft picks. Perhaps the Kings could make a separate trade with Columbus (as they did in the past to acquire Modin) and acquire Vaclav Prospal for a conditional pick and a B-level prospect.

Prospal is a playmaking LW who can really help out Richards on the second scoring line. Having Brown-Kopitar-Carter as your top line with Prospal-Richards-Williams as your second scoring line will pretty much have the Kings prepared to make a hard push in the playoffs. They're set on defense and in goal and the only other need to address may be depth on the bottom two lines, but filling up the top two lines certainly helps address the issue they have at scoring depth within the top six.
Honestly, I think a package like that could get a guy like Parise.

Bernier
Martinez/Voynov
Stoll
1st in 2012

for

Parise
Hedberg

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:10 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Do not want to give up big time assets for 10 years of Carter. DL should stay away...
Agreed!

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:21 AM
  #233
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I hope DL stays FAR away from Carter. There was a reason those two were split up, and with Richards just getting used to his new team and teammates, I wouldn't want him to revert back to being best buds with Carter. I'm not saying that the Philly stories are all true, but who knows? Where there is smoke, there's fire. Why would you even chance that?

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:37 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
That's kind of what leads me to believe we are in the hunt for Stafford if he is available. Only 26, signed for 3 more years after this. Definitely would be a part of a longer term plan then a rental.
I'd be down with Stafford. You seem pretty familiar with the Sabres needs Jaygokings, what would they be asking for him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Without JB, DL has no leverage at all with JQ's contract negotiations starting in July. Remember what Rinne got? Well at this pace JQ will ask for the same or more. Without JB, he has to give it to him or bring in a journeyman. Won't be popular with fans, that's for sure. The only way I trade JB is in a package for a young, top player with a long contract. Managable or not (i.e. - Carter or Nash or someone of that ilk).

But that's just me. What in God's name do I know?
I think JB is a good fall back incase Quick tries to go to UFA, but I don't think he'll help lower Quick's asking price, if that's what you were suggesting.

Rinne had Lindback behind him, pretty similar numbers to Bernier lst year and this year. Rinne still got $7 million per season.

I'm still banking on a contract between $6.3 million and $6.5 million annually on a term of six or seven years for Quick, but that could change if anyone else gets a Rinne or higher type of deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Dreger also made it sound like the price wouldn't be as high as many of us have speculated. Lombardi better be kicking the tires on a Carter deal
Only way I could see Carter's cost being really low is if Carter's going to be out for the year. If not, I doubt he's not going to fetch a 1st plus a decent rpospect, which is close to what Columbus gave up for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post

Bernier or Loktionov
One of Martinez, Hickey or Forbort (or LA's 1st in 2012)
One of Penner or Stoll

for

Jeff Carter
Curtis Sanford (to serve as a backup until the end of the season, as he is a UFA this summer. That is if Columbus is interested in Bernier)
I personally doubt Columbus would move Carter for Loktionov, Martinez and Penner/Stoll, especially since Penner/Stoll hold negative value to Columbus as they are only there to serve as a salary dump. I'd say Bernier, our 1st either this year or next and one of the D-men you suggested. If they elected to go with mason, as you suggested they might, then drop Bernier and insert one of Loktionov or Toffoli and a 3rd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
It's hard to imagine Carter being the guy that puts us over the top.
I don't think he "puts us over the top" but if he's healthy and playing like he has in all the other years of his career, he is a legitimate 30-40 goal threat, something we don't have and haven't had since likely Palffy a decade ago. That would certainly put us in the thick of things not just this year but for a while down the road as well.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:42 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
I hope DL stays FAR away from Carter. There was a reason those two were split up, and with Richards just getting used to his new team and teammates, I wouldn't want him to revert back to being best buds with Carter. I'm not saying that the Philly stories are all true, but who knows? Where there is smoke, there's fire. Why would you even chance that?
To win a Stanley Cup?

In all seriousness though, if anyone has the contacts to find out if it was true or not, DL would with the Flyers organization. He'll know quickly if there was any truth to those issues. The fact he took on Richards, and that thus far the stories about Richards haven't proven to be true at all here, says something in itself. If DL thinks Carter was also railroaded out of town in Philly for no reason, he'll jump on Carter.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:44 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Honestly, I think a package like that could get a guy like Parise.

Bernier
Martinez/Voynov
Stoll
1st in 2012

for

Parise
Hedberg
I agree. If we're giving up that much, I want Parise.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
Yeah, I don't see it either. Other than Pronger, I think there's a definite reason he and Richards were broken up. It may be unwise to reunite them.
Agree. But....

...like I said before, it's not because I truly believe them two combined cause problems. It's just that if those two/Kings play poorly, all of the NHL media is going to blame them. This will lead to messing those two/Kings up mentally.

I don't want those kinds of distractions for the team and mainly MR. MR is great when he's just allowed to play hockey and doesn't have to deal with BS.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #238
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Some of you guys put WAAAAY too much emphasis on Carter being a negative influence on our team. All Carter's going to do is add much needed scoring on the ice and add some fun and life into our lockerrooms.

Seriously, do you really think that putting Carter back with Richards is somehow going to make our team into a team of flakes? We're a team of coach-able and disciplined players with Dustin Brown as our captain and Sutter as our coach.

Don't get caught up in the drama boys and girls.

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Old
01-26-2012, 11:11 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Some of you guys put WAAAAY too much emphasis on Carter being a negative influence on our team. All Carter's going to do is add much needed scoring on the ice and add some fun and life into our lockerrooms.

Seriously, do you really think that putting Carter back with Richards is somehow going to make our team into a team of flakes? We're a team of coach-able and disciplined players with Dustin Brown as our captain and Sutter as our coach.

Don't get caught up in the drama boys and girls.
Thank you.

Also remember who our coach is. I would be a little concerned if the stoic one were behind the bench, but Sutter ain't gonna take no mess.

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Old
01-26-2012, 11:23 AM
  #240
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Say no to Carter. Only two guys worth a Bernier-JJ-1st package are Evander Kane and Parise. Lots of Kane speculation popping up; what would you guys give up for him? Would you prefer Kane to Parise? Would you prefer Voynov to JJ if one had to be included? I would.

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Old
01-26-2012, 11:27 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I think JB is a good fall back incase Quick tries to go to UFA, but I don't think he'll help lower Quick's asking price, if that's what you were suggesting.

Rinne had Lindback behind him, pretty similar numbers to Bernier lst year and this year. Rinne still got $7 million per season.

I'm still banking on a contract between $6.3 million and $6.5 million annually on a term of six or seven years for Quick, but that could change if anyone else gets a Rinne or higher type of deal.
Assuming Quick wants to stay, having Bernier would keep his price down a bit before UFA and would be insurance against him bolting. If he's willing to test UFA, then you're right it won't keep JQ from making what he's worth on the open market, although there's a lockout/strike to consider too.

I'm curious, with the season Quick is having, why you'd think he would be willing to take less money than Rinne when he CAN go UFA in July of '13. Hope he doesn't, but he's entitled.

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01-26-2012, 11:33 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Thank you.

Also remember who our coach is. I would be a little concerned if the stoic one were behind the bench, but Sutter ain't gonna take no mess.
he's 27... nice cap hit but I'm concerned with the length of his deal. With a work stoppage pending and the uncertainty involved with that... not sure he'd wanna take a chance on that, but I'm sure he loves Carter, I mean, he's a Flyer... DL would bring back "The Hammer" if he could.

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Old
01-26-2012, 11:43 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bral View Post
Say no to Carter. Only two guys worth a Bernier-JJ-1st package are Evander Kane and Parise. Lots of Kane speculation popping up; what would you guys give up for him? Would you prefer Kane to Parise? Would you prefer Voynov to JJ if one had to be included? I would.
Didn't Carter cost the BLue Jackets Voracek and a 1st? If so, I would think Jack Johnson and a 1st would cut it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Assuming Quick wants to stay, having Bernier would keep his price down a bit before UFA and would be insurance against him bolting. If he's willing to test UFA, then you're right it won't keep JQ from making what he's worth on the open market, although there's a lockout/strike to consider too.

I'm curious, with the season Quick is having, why you'd think he would be willing to take less money than Rinne when he CAN go UFA in July of '13. Hope he doesn't, but he's entitled.
He can risk it but there is a chance 1) that he regresses (anthing is possible) 2) there isn't that big of a demand for goalies when he becomes a UFA. I remember a few years after the lockout goailes were in high demand and a few years later not as much. Also, there is a chance that the only teams that are in the market for a goalie are bottom feeders.

On top of that, the Kings have Martin Jones and Jeff Zatkoff waiting for a chance that won't see the light of day until one of Quick/Bernier are moved or get hurt. Now I don't think any of us wants to go through the process of developing a goalie again while there a retreads in net as we wait but the Kings do have a few other guys besides Bernier that could step up.

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Old
01-26-2012, 11:47 AM
  #244
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Carey Price will have to be re-signed this summer. I'm guessing he sets a very relevant precedent for Quick.

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Old
01-26-2012, 11:54 AM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Assuming Quick wants to stay, having Bernier would keep his price down a bit before UFA and would be insurance against him bolting. If he's willing to test UFA, then you're right it won't keep JQ from making what he's worth on the open market, although there's a lockout/strike to consider too.

I'm curious, with the season Quick is having, why you'd think he would be willing to take less money than Rinne when he CAN go UFA in July of '13. Hope he doesn't, but he's entitled.
I'm going to give that credit to DL honestly.

Outside of the Doughty deal, virtually all the contracts he's done have been at or below market value. Rinne's deal is, IMO over market value.

Now if Quick keeps this insane play up into next season, or we have a good playoff run, or if someone else signs a Rinne-type deal, all that reasoning goes out the window. But based on contracts like Miller's and Ward's and others in the same age and performance when they resigned, and the fact Quick has been solely in LA, and the fact we have a likely much better team than most teams who would be looking to add a UFA goalie (which also could change in the next 17 months), to me $6.3 million to $6.5 million on a 5-7 year deal seems fair.

Personally, I think Poile overpaid, and part of that was because he locked himself into a situation where his three best players (Rinne, Suter and Weber) all came UFA at the same time, and that cost him a bit as well as they knew they had him over a barrel a bit. Quick has LA over a barrel a bit with his play, but overall LA has a very solid team and could live without Quick. Nashville couldn't do the same without their big three and Poile likely pushed a bit harder in what he was willing to offer as a result. Rinne bit on it.

In the end though, what Quick will ask for will depend on his desire to stay with the Kings and how much he figures he could get a UFA.

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01-26-2012, 12:07 PM
  #246
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I bet there will be a trade soon. The Paddock waiving was undoubtedly done to open up a contract spot. Otherwise you don't let guys like that go!

The first domino has fallen.

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Old
01-26-2012, 12:17 PM
  #247
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Um, did some of you not see my post earlier. Carter was a healthy scratch once this year. They can't wait to get rid of him.

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01-26-2012, 12:18 PM
  #248
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Bryzgalov's nine year contract carries a cap hit of $5.67M per year. He signed it as a UFA and was considered one of the best goalies in the league. Now we see that he's not living up to that contract and he's struggling mightily to live up to expectations. Nashville is in a more unique situation since they are not big spenders and they have most of their money invested in their starting goalie and their top two defensemen.

The Kings are different from a club like Nashville, and I don't see them spending up to $7M to re-sign Quick nor do I expect to see Quick get that much. I think a long term, front loaded contract would lockup Quick and keep him happy for the rest of his career.

Quick will be 27 when he's eligible to become a UFA and the Kings can start negotiating an extension come this summer.

As for Jeff Carter, he's a proven 30 goal scorer, he's versatile, he has a shot that this team needs, he can improve the special teams, he generates over 300 shots and has a damn accurate shot as well, he has size, he can play a two-way game, and more importantly, his cap hit is very fair for a player who consistently produces 30 goals and over 60 points.

If the Kings can obtain a player of that pedigree for a couple of assets, you pull the trigger. Carter is a player who is just entering his prime. This isn't another Dustin Penner that we're looking at. Another thing that makes Carter an attractive commodity is that he is a player who has come back to play with injuries.

It was known that he was playing hurt during the playoffs, and that's something that Lombardi tends to value. While he may not display the intensity of a player like Mike Richards or Dustin Brown, adding Jeff Carter is like acquiring another Anze Kopitar, but he's more of a sniper than a playmaker.

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01-26-2012, 12:19 PM
  #249
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Um, did some of you not see my post earlier. Carter was a healthy scratch once this year. They can't wait to get rid of him.
I think you have Carter mixed up with Brassard. Brassard was a healthy scratch. Carter has been hurt a couple of times this season.

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01-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  #250
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Thank you.

if the stoic one were behind the bench, but Sutter ain't gonna take no mess.
I do agree that is a good point.

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