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01-26-2012, 12:05 PM
  #151
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Or we might've been 10 points ahead of the pack if Staal was healthy all season.
Right. Because Marc Staal is as important as Crosby.

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What if's don't mean jack. We're in first. The end.
They don't mean "jack" to you. It certainly means something to me.

The poster commented on how impressive the fact that we are first is considering the strength of our division. You can't judge this team's success while considering the strength of the division without acknowledging that the two other top teams in our division have been without their top players for virtually the entire season, players that are even more important to their teams than Staal is to ours.

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01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Exactly. We went all the way to January 1 without Staal and we lost Sauer as well. Then Eminger got hurt. Our D has taken a beating this season. Maybe our players are just better at stepping up than other teams. Del Zotto proving to be a solid 2nd pairing guy is why we are where we are. What if DZ had another terrible season, what if, what if. All 3 teams have gone thru injuries, we just have the best record. End of story. I'm sick of hearing about what if.
They have. But not all three have gone through the same amount of injuries, or injuries of the same level of importance. Losing your top defenseman is a big blow, but when you're a top defensive team with the best goalie in the league, it's different than losing the best player in the world who is also your best offensive player.

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Here, based on each National Hockey League club’s most recent game-day totes, is overall standings for man-games lost:

1. Pittsburgh 240

2. N.Y. Islanders 222

3. Montreal 221

4. Buffalo 213

4. Winnipeg 213

6. Calgary 211

7. St. Louis 190

8. Columbus 187

9. Florida 185

10. Minnesota 180

11. Toronto 174

12. Edmonton 167

13. Philadelphia 162

14. Colorado 160

15. Vancouver 150

16. N.Y. Rangers 148

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01-26-2012, 12:13 PM
  #153
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What I don't get is this: Every team goes thru injuries every single season. So now that we are in first, we need to be making excuses for why we're there?

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01-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
What I don't get is this: Every team goes thru injuries every single season. So now that we are in first, we need to be making excuses for why we're there?
Is making excuses any better than taking extra credit that we may not necessarily deserve? I only said what I said because I think it's good to keep things in perspective, and only as a response to the posters comment. Don't get too cocky.

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01-26-2012, 12:24 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Is making excuses any better than taking extra credit that we may not necessarily deserve? I only said what I said because I think it's good to keep things in perspective, and only as a response to the posters comment. Don't get too cocky.
No one is getting cocky. Is our team perfect? No. Every team battles injuries every year, it's the way the cookie crumbles. Of course you can put things in perspective, but using other teams' injuries as excuses, especially when a team like Pitt still has Malkin and Neal leading the ****ing way like dogs on raw meat, is really dumb IMO.

Injuries happen to every team. We're in 1st. End of story.

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01-26-2012, 12:36 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
No one is getting cocky. Is our team perfect? No. Every team battles injuries every year, it's the way the cookie crumbles. Of course you can put things in perspective, but using other teams' injuries as excuses, especially when a team like Pitt still has Malkin and Neal leading the ****ing way like dogs on raw meat, is really dumb IMO.

Injuries happen to every team. We're in 1st. End of story.
Are you purposely choosing to ignore what I have repeated three times now? Where did you get the idea that I'm making excuses? This is the post I was responding to.

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Originally Posted by Ezequiel View Post
Don't want to sound like I'm bragging but I feel it's even more impressive for the Rangers to be ranked higher than the Bruins considering the strength of our division
That's what he feels. What I feel is that being impressed because we're first in a tough division is a little foolhardy, because our biggest competition in this division has dealt with far greater injury problems than we have. Maybe you don't think a healthy Penguins team is anything to be afraid of, but I think they're the best team in the league. I think they would win this division handily if Crosby played even half a season, rather than a 8 games, and I think they would expose the fact that the Rangers still have a pretty major hole or two that need to be filled before they can be the best of the best. I'm not making excuses for anyone, I'm doing my best to take the homer glasses off.

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01-26-2012, 12:44 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Are you purposely choosing to ignore what I have repeated three times now? Where did you get the idea that I'm making excuses? This is the post I was responding to.



That's what he feels. What I feel is that being impressed because we're first in a tough division is a little foolhardy, because our biggest competition in this division has dealt with far greater injury problems than we have. Maybe you don't think a healthy Penguins team is anything to be afraid of, but I think they're the best team in the league. I think they would win this division handily if Crosby played even half a season, rather than a 8 games, and I think they would expose the fact that the Rangers still have a pretty major hole or two that need to be filled before they can be the best of the best. I'm not making excuses for anyone, I'm doing my best to take the homer glasses off.
Rangers have 66 points. Flyers have 63. Pens have 60. What about that is not a strong division? Flyers and Pens are the 4 and 5 seed right now. Sure, we may not be the Central Division, but this is the ATLANTIC DIVISION, easily the #1 or #2 hardest division in hockey every season. It's right now the 2nd toughest division.

Sure having Crosby would make the Pens better, but he is ONE player. That team shouldn't need Crosby to win the division. Do we have any Crosby's? No.

I understand you are trying to "take the homer glasses off", but it's not being a homer at all. I just don't buy anything you're saying at all. The Pens are still a lethal team without Crosby. And if it wasn't for ****** goaltending, the Flyers might be ahead of us. We just seem to be the most complete team. Rock solid defense + Hank + an average offense puts us ahead of the other teams. Just how it is.

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01-26-2012, 12:49 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
No, but when someone uses "he is what he is", that has a tone of resignation and not a phrase that is often used with top-flight defensemen.
The top flight defensemen in the league have much better overall games than Staal does. I hate to keep bringing up offensive abilities as a sticking point but given a choice between a real good defenseman with great offensive abilities vs a great defensive defenseman with limited offensive abilities, I'm taking the former of the two everytime.

If, for argument sakes, we had a chance to trade for a Subban(hypothetically bc he's not going anywhere despite rumors to the contrary) and we had to give up a Staal, you do that deal in a heartbeat no questions asked because it would make the Rangers a much better team and that is really the bottom line.

Teams like Ottawa, St. Louis or Detroit would never trade players like Eric Karlson, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk or a Kronwall straight up for Staal in a million years!

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01-26-2012, 12:57 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
They have. But not all three have gone through the same amount of injuries, or injuries of the same level of importance. Losing your top defenseman is a big blow, but when you're a top defensive team with the best goalie in the league, it's different than losing the best player in the world who is also your best offensive player.
Bingo! Thanks for posting that information. We have been very fortunate as it relates to man games lost and people here tend to overstate the loss of a Staal and Sauer like it's the same as the loss the Pens have suffered without Crosby, Letang, J.Staal and Malkin(early on) and the ridiculous number of injuries the Flyers have had to deal with. This season for the Rangers is becoming strangely similar to our first season out of the lockout in 05/06. Let's hope we don't go into the tank after the all star break and then get knocked out in the 1st round.

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01-26-2012, 01:14 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Rangers have 66 points. Flyers have 63. Pens have 60. What about that is not a strong division? Flyers and Pens are the 4 and 5 seed right now. Sure, we may not be the Central Division, but this is the ATLANTIC DIVISION, easily the #1 or #2 hardest division in hockey every season. It's right now the 2nd toughest division.Sure having Crosby would make the Pens better, but he is ONE player. That team shouldn't need Crosby to win the division. Do we have any Crosby's? No.
We definitely have a Crosby. He plays goal, but he is as important to our team as Crosby is to his, and if Lundqvist was out for the whole season, this team would struggle to make the playoffs (and please don't give me Marty Biron's record as a backup playing against **** teams as some sort of evidence to the contrary).

Crosby is not just one player. He's the best player, or one of the two best players. How good do you think the Red Wings would be if they lost Datsyuk the way the Pens lost Crosby? I think they'd probably make the playoffs as a low seed (which is probably what is going to happen to the Penguins). And the Pens did play without their number one defenseman for 25 games, also.

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I understand you are trying to "take the homer glasses off", but it's not being a homer at all. I just don't buy anything you're saying at all. The Pens are still a lethal team without Crosby. And if it wasn't for ****** goaltending, the Flyers might be ahead of us. We just seem to be the most complete team. Rock solid defense + Hank + an average offense puts us ahead of the other teams. Just how it is.
You made my point for me. The Pens are a "lethal" team without Crosby. So then how good do you think they would be with Crosby? I think they'd be better than the Rangers, their crap PP, and their continued lack of enough skill offensively. Which isn't an insult to the Rangers; this wasn't supposed to be the year, anyway. This was the start of the window, but they lucked out because the best team in their division, and possibly the league, got screwed.

I think you're nuts if you think we're the most complete team. I think the Penguins should be in the middle of a San Antonio Spurs-esque run of winning 2 out of 3, or even 3 out of 5 championships, if not several consecutive ones. I think the Penguins have, when healthy, the best offense in the league, a very deep and versatile group of defensemen, and a goalie that is not elite, but good enough to win championships with that club. Suffice it to say, I don't think the Boston Bruins even make the Stanley Cup Finals last season if Crosby played in the playoffs, and I think the best the Rangers could hope for this season was 4th if Crosby isn't out for the year.

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01-26-2012, 01:17 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Honestly, Staal had an awful game. He managed to cause 2 2 on 1's IN THE SAME SHIFT

Hopefully, he'll pick it up a bit. As for his offense, at the end of last season both he and Torts thought he hadn't hit his potential on that end of the ice, so let's wait and see. Defensemen take a notoriously long time to fully develop. Hell, look at what we're getting out of Stralman.
I'm sure that he'll pick up his game as the season goes on.

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01-26-2012, 01:17 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Bingo! Thanks for posting that information. We have been very fortunate as it relates to man games lost and people here tend to overstate the loss of a Staal and Sauer like it's the same as the loss the Pens have suffered without Crosby, Letang, J.Staal and Malkin(early on) and the ridiculous number of injuries the Flyers have had to deal with. This season for the Rangers is becoming strangely similar to our first season out of the lockout in 05/06. Let's hope we don't go into the tank after the all star break and then get knocked out in the 1st round.
I'm glad you agree, but you're taking it a lot further than I would. I wouldn't be making any comparisons between this team, a legitimate playoff team with depth, and the 05/06 Rangers, a joke of a team with zero depth riding 2 players. I think this team will do much better in the playoffs than that team did.

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01-26-2012, 01:50 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I'm glad you agree, but you're taking it a lot further than I would. I wouldn't be making any comparisons between this team, a legitimate playoff team with depth, and the 05/06 Rangers, a joke of a team with zero depth riding 2 players. I think this team will do much better in the playoffs than that team did.
I've never been the most optimistic Rangers(or any other team) fan and so I sincerely hope you're right. I do tend to agree with you in the sense that this team is much better, more well rounded, harder working, defensively responsible and accountable. I honestly believe we really need to go for it this year because we don't know what the future holds with a potential lockout looming.

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01-26-2012, 09:43 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Are you considering that the Flyers and Penguins have both dealt with major injuries this season? IMO, the Rangers would not be in first place if Crosby was healthy.
IMO the Rangers would have 4 or 5 more points if they didnt have that RIDICULOUS scheduling to start the season.

whats your point?

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01-27-2012, 12:23 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Right. Because Marc Staal is as important as Crosby.



They don't mean "jack" to you. It certainly means something to me.

The poster commented on how impressive the fact that we are first is considering the strength of our division. You can't judge this team's success while considering the strength of the division without acknowledging that the two other top teams in our division have been without their top players for virtually the entire season, players that are even more important to their teams than Staal is to ours.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never even implied that Staal is as important as Crosby. But just because Crosby is ten times better doesn't mean that if both Staal and Crosby were healthy all year, the Rangers couldn't still be ten points ahead of the rest of the pack. I was merely showing how irrelevant a discussion of "what-ifs" is to this conversation.

And that lends itself to the second point, which is that THEY DON'T MEAN JACK. Of course we are all aware that Pittsburgh is a much easier team to defend without Crosby. That doesn't mean that the Penguins are better than the Rangers simply because they've had almost as good of a record without Crosby. There's a reason they actually play the games and don't just award the Stanley Cup to the best team on paper in September. For example, Marty Biron is 9-2 with a 1.87 GAA. Does that mean that the Rangers are even BETTER than their record indicates because we won so many games without our best player, Lundqvist even playing?

Crosby is the best offensive player in the league. But if he can't get back into the lineup, he's as valuable as Wojtek Wolski. And I can guarantee you that the Rangers aren't thinking "well we're doing pretty good guys, but the Pens haven't had Crosby so they're still better than us when healthy." We won the games, we're in first place. You can discuss what-ifs until you're blue in the face. They still don't have an effect on reality. I don't get why you are so hung up on what could've been.

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01-29-2012, 01:31 AM
  #166
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Without having to scan thrhough this entire thread, can someone please clarify why Callahan declined to wear the Broadway Hat? Seems quite odd that the Captain would deflect away what seems to be a "tradition" in the locker-room?

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01-29-2012, 01:40 AM
  #167
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Without having to scan thrhough this entire thread, can someone please clarify why Callahan declined to wear the Broadway Hat? Seems quite odd that the Captain would deflect away what seems to be a "tradition" in the locker-room?
He did? Where did you hear this?

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01-29-2012, 09:46 AM
  #168
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He did? Where did you hear this?
http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2012-ar...oadwayhat.html

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01-29-2012, 09:49 AM
  #169
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Thing is probably RANCID right now after 31 pass arounds.

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01-29-2012, 10:53 AM
  #170
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True.

**** now I feel dumb for doubting myself.
If I get another Hagelin text from you...

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