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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III

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Old
01-26-2012, 01:29 PM
  #251
Flour Child
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As always, Ziggy gets it.


The only thing to consider with Carter is we haven't been remotely successful at signing UFA's and his cap hit is very reasonable.

Even with a CBA battle looming, I pull the trigger on the deal.

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01-26-2012, 01:34 PM
  #252
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As always, Ziggy gets it.


The only thing to consider with Carter is we haven't been remotely successful at signing UFA's and his cap hit is very reasonable.

Even with a CBA battle looming, I pull the trigger on the deal.
Precisely. If the Kings were to sign a player like Jeff Carter as a free agent, they're going to have to pay a hell of a lot more in the open market, and we've seen how difficult it has been for the Kings to find the ever elusive sniper that Lombardi has been pursuing since 2007.

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01-26-2012, 01:34 PM
  #253
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Yes his cap hit is reasonable but for how long? With luck, five-six years?

Ten years is a long, long time. Not saying I'm totally against it but you have to recognize it for what it is, and it's a contract that's good right now but likely brutal in a couple of years.

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01-26-2012, 01:43 PM
  #254
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Yeah I'm on board with Carter too. He has scored 40 goals and both he and Richards made it to a Cup final before. Until proven otherwise, the Kings are going to have to build their team through the draft and by trading. That is what San Jose has done and that is what Anaheim did when they won the Cup. Getting players to come out to California is nearly impossible unless we have the brother of on of the top UFA's on the roster already. Sign Zach Parise's brother.. or sister.. ****.. sign his dad!

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Yes his cap hit is reasonable but for how long? With luck, five-six years?

Ten years is a long, long time. Not saying I'm totally against it but you have to recognize it for what it is, and it's a contract that's good right now but likely brutal in a couple of years.
I don't really care about 5 years down the line. I care about it now. Worry about it when we get there. That is what every other team in the league does. So much can change between then and now anyway with the CBA and what not. Worst case scenario the Kings could shove him in the minors. For the past 5 years we have all been patiently waiting for that player to come along and all of a sudden we are worried about 5 more years. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. THere are no guarantees in life but DL is going to have to pony up at some point or the team is going to be continually playing for the 5-8 spots in the standings until by some miracle a UFA signs here or they draft and develop a player like that. BTW.. they'll be paying through the nose for said UFA anyway.

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01-26-2012, 01:43 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
Yes his cap hit is reasonable but for how long? With luck, five-six years?

Ten years is a long, long time. Not saying I'm totally against it but you have to recognize it for what it is, and it's a contract that's good right now but likely brutal in a couple of years.
Carter just turned 27. For sake of argument, let's ay he starts to suck at 35. That is 7 productive years and you buy out the last three. I would still do it.

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01-26-2012, 01:43 PM
  #256
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For me, the problem with Carter is that if there are issues with him then we're stuck. Even though his per year numbers are good, the length of his contract plus any additional reinforcement of the issues questions is going to make it even more difficult to get him out of here if necessary.

If you do go get players at least make sure that you can change your mind when or if needed a year or two down the road.
How would you guys feel if Penner was locked in for another two or three years?

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01-26-2012, 01:47 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
Yes his cap hit is reasonable but for how long? With luck, five-six years?

Ten years is a long, long time. Not saying I'm totally against it but you have to recognize it for what it is, and it's a contract that's good right now but likely brutal in a couple of years.
If the Kings go after Parise in the offseason, I would bet money his contract would be 7 to 10 years at 7Mill cap hit.

That would probably not even be the best offer he gets.

Carters contract is not a huge issue. What is an issue is the Kings finding someone that can Score a lot of Goals.

I still say to this day, I would have givin GABO his money and the years he wanted.


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01-26-2012, 01:51 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
For me, the problem with Carter is that if there are issues with him then we're stuck. Even though his per year numbers are good, the length of his contract plus any additional reinforcement of the issues questions is going to make it even more difficult to get him out of here if necessary.

If you do go get players at least make sure that you can change your mind when or if needed a year or two down the road.
How would you guys feel if Penner was locked in for another two or three years?
The same could be said about any UFA coming here. They will cost more as well. Right now Gagne's 3m is looking pretty bad.

But the Kings will deal with it.

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01-26-2012, 01:56 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
For me, the problem with Carter is that if there are issues with him then we're stuck. Even though his per year numbers are good, the length of his contract plus any additional reinforcement of the issues questions is going to make it even more difficult to get him out of here if necessary.

If you do go get players at least make sure that you can change your mind when or if needed a year or two down the road.
How would you guys feel if Penner was locked in for another two or three years?
Exactly. Do you think Columbus, a team that's desperate for any kind of talent, especially at the center position, decide to trade him on a whim? There are issues there, serious issues, and being stuck with those issues for the next ten years is something to really think about before making that kind of commitment.

Like I said before, I'm not totally against acquiring him but please stop referring to his contract as a positive. At best, it's a huge gamble with some value to be gained for the next couple of years.

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01-26-2012, 01:58 PM
  #260
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Exactly. Do you think Columbus, a team that's desperate for any kind of talent, especially at the center position, decide to trade him on a whim? There are issues there, serious issues, and being stuck with those issues for the next ten years is something to really think about before making that kind of commitment.

Like I said before, I'm not totally against acquiring him but please stop referring to his contract as a positive. At best, it's a huge gamble with some value to be gained for the next couple of years.
You wouldn't have any issues Being traded from Philly (which you signed a discount to stay) to the worst team in the league?

I would be f^&^* Livid. I would be Mad as hell.

Would you have givin Gaborik the Money and years ? He has more issues than Carter. Also would have cost more, I would have still givin GAbo his money.


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01-26-2012, 02:15 PM
  #261
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You wouldn't have any issues Being traded from Philly (which you signed a distcount to stay) to the worst team in the league?

I would be f^&^* Livid. I would be Mad as hell.

Would you have givin Gaborik the Money and years ? He has more issues than Carter. Also would have cost more, I would have still givin GAbo his money.
Do you think the only reason Columbus is trading him is because he's mad about being in Columbus? If you do then fair enough, but personally I think there's got to be more to it. People get over being mad, people settle in and find their place eventually. I just can't believe a team in the position of Columbus can afford to trade a player like Carter, whom they paid a premium for very recently, a few months after being acquired just because he's unhappy. There has got to be something there that made them second guess themselves having this guy around for another ten years.

As for Gaborik, at the time I thought it was a good decision considering the risk. He was coming off an injury that kept him out for almost a full season. Hard to commit that kind of money when you don't quite know what you're gonna get. Now in retrospect he recovered just fine, but I'm getting sick of all the posters with all the answers now after the fact. Noone was talking about Lombardi missing out on Gaborik last year when he was having a bad season. Now that he's doing good, suddenly Lombardi is an idiot.

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01-26-2012, 02:17 PM
  #262
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Yeah I'm on board with Carter too. He has scored 40 goals and both he and Richards made it to a Cup final before. Until proven otherwise, the Kings are going to have to build their team through the draft and by trading. That is what San Jose has done and that is what Anaheim did when they won the Cup. Getting players to come out to California is nearly impossible unless we have the brother of on of the top UFA's on the roster already. Sign Zach Parise's brother.. or sister.. ****.. sign his dad!



I don't really care about 5 years down the line. I care about it now. Worry about it when we get there. That is what every other team in the league does. So much can change between then and now anyway with the CBA and what not. Worst case scenario the Kings could shove him in the minors. For the past 5 years we have all been patiently waiting for that player to come along and all of a sudden we are worried about 5 more years. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. THere are no guarantees in life but DL is going to have to pony up at some point or the team is going to be continually playing for the 5-8 spots in the standings until by some miracle a UFA signs here or they draft and develop a player like that. BTW.. they'll be paying through the nose for said UFA anyway.
Spot on and well put.

Any UFA of Carters Talent level, is going to cost more, also is going to have at least a 7 year contract.

Odds are they don't even come to LA.

So what is the real problem with Carter ? you guys can't be that worried about his contract.


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01-26-2012, 02:22 PM
  #263
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Do you think the only reason Columbus is trading him is because he's mad about being in Columbus? If you do then fair enough, but personally I think there's got to be more to it. People get over being mad, people settle in and find their place eventually. I just can't believe a team in the position of Columbus can afford to trade a player like Carter, whom they paid a premium for very recently, a few months after being acquired just because he's unhappy. There has got to be something there that made them second guess themselves having this guy around for another ten years.

As for Gaborik, at the time I thought it was a good decision considering the risk. He was coming off an injury that kept him out for almost a full season. Hard to commit that kind of money when you don't quite know what you're gonna get. Now in retrospect he recovered just fine, but I'm getting sick of all the posters with all the answers now after the fact. Noone was talking about Lombardi missing out on Gaborik last year when he was having a bad season. Now that he's doing good, suddenly Lombardi is an idiot.
Just like there had to be something with Mike Richards right ? So far Mike has proven anything that the Media wrote about him is bogus(So far).

Columbus really didn't give up a ransom for Carter. They gave up a guy, that struggled to produce for them consistantly(Although talented). Also Two picks, the Top ten pick hurt a little.

Carter IS still the best player in that trade.

The Gabo thread was brought up a few weeks ago(Telos I think re linked it), Plenty of people in that thread thought it was stupid Dean didn't offer Gabo what he wanted.

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01-26-2012, 02:28 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Just like there had to be something with Mike Richards right ? So far Mike has proven anything that the Media wrote about him is bogus.

Columbus really didn't give up a ransom for Carter. They gave up a guy, that struggled to produce for them consistantly. Also a Two picks, the Top ten pick hurt a little.

Carter was still teh best player in that trade.
You are completely missing my point. The media angle is irrelevant, I never mentioned that. Mike Richards is also irrelevant because his new club isn't looking to trade him a few months after getting him.

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01-26-2012, 02:32 PM
  #265
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You are completely missing my point. The media angle is irrelevant, I never mentioned that. Mike Richards is also irrelevant because his new club isn't looking to trade him a few months after getting him.
So there is something wrong with him; cause the GM of Columbus brought in a Center that is not a playmaking one for Nash?

It could be the GM figured out Carter is not going to work with Nash (Imagine that).


No it has to be Carter is a cancer or something else.

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01-26-2012, 02:36 PM
  #266
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So there is something wrong with him; cause the GM of Columbus brought in a Center that is not a playmaking one for Nash?

It could be the GM figured out Carter is not going to work with Nash (Imagine that).


No it has to be Carter is a cancer or something else.
Even if he doesn't play well with Nash he's about as good a 2nd line center as you could ever want so I don't buy that to be the reason.

You tell me, in your opinion is there a reason they're trading him other than because he's unhappy?

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01-26-2012, 02:42 PM
  #267
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I'd be down with Stafford. You seem pretty familiar with the Sabres needs Jaygokings, what would they be asking for him?

They really badly need two things. A center, and a defensemen.

If you get past Roy and Gaustad (and even he has been bad this year) they really have very little depth or quality at center.

Adam is good but he is inconsistent, since he is a rookie. Lieno they are trying to convert to wing, and he's just been a train wreck at both positions anyways. Hecht is done for the season. That's only 3 centers. Szcezechura is capable, i personally like him but he is honestly their Scott Parse.

if you ask me Stoll would almost be perfect for them if they could get him to resign. a reliable 3rd line center. Who can kill penalties and is good on the draw. Cause right now they have Gaustad and Matt Ellis in the bottom 6, and Ellis isn't even a natural center.

Defense wise, They seem pretty set on having their puck movers be Ehrhoff, Myers, and Gragnani for a long time. The defensive group is a little shaky though with a mix of Leopold, Sekera, Weber, McNabb, Regher...Any trade likely guarantees that Leopold is out of town. Sekera has too good of a contract for what he brings (2.75 over the next 3 years), and Regher just got there. Weber still needs time to learn, so does McNabb and Brennan.

Basically one of Mitchell/Scuds/Greene would be a huge upgrade to what they already have.

All things considered the deal for Stafford probably starts here:

Stoll/Loktionov/Lewis
Greene/Scuds/Mitchell


for

Stafford

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01-26-2012, 02:45 PM
  #268
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They really badly need two things. A center, and a defensemen.

If you get past Roy and Gaustad (and even he has been bad this year) they really have very little depth or quality at center.

Adam is good but he is inconsistent, since he is a rookie. Lieno they are trying to convert to wing, and he's just been a train wreck at both positions anyways. Hecht is done for the season. That's only 3 centers. Szcezechura is capable, i personally like him but he is honestly their Scott Parse.

if you ask me Stoll would almost be perfect for them if they could get him to resign. a reliable 3rd line center. Who can kill penalties and is good on the draw. Cause right now they have Gaustad and Matt Ellis in the bottom 6, and Ellis isn't even a natural center.

Defense wise, They seem pretty set on having their puck movers be Ehrhoff, Myers, and Gragnani for a long time. The defensive group is a little shaky though with a mix of Leopold, Sekera, Weber, McNabb, Regher...

Basically one of Mitchell/Scuds/Greene would be a huge upgrade to what they already have.

All things considered the deal for Stafford probably starts here:

Stoll/Loktionov/Lewis
Greene/Scuds/Mitchell


for

Stafford
Bummer

It's pretty much not worth it for the Kings to swap roster players. Unless those players are Stoll/Penner/Richardson/Lewis/Westy.

The Kings can't fill the Huge gap SCuds/Mitchell/ Greene would leave. Unless they were trading for some one similiar.

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01-26-2012, 02:46 PM
  #269
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It is ironic that Kings fans are running around spewing this cancerous talk after so feverishly defending Richards. Suddenly the tabloids were right about Carter, but Richards is a saint.

Bottom line, people need to play some moneyball here. Carter is on a discount contract for the rest of his career and is a 35-40 goal scoring forward for a reasonable price. I don't care about what rumor you want to perpetuate and make up about his character, he ideally addresses this team's greatest need in the most effective manner. I don't see how people can complain when we are getting the Flyers' offense mixed with the Kings' defense and goaltending for a reasonable cost long term. That is a pretty powerful combination to say the least.

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01-26-2012, 02:48 PM
  #270
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Exactly. Do you think Columbus, a team that's desperate for any kind of talent, especially at the center position, decide to trade him on a whim? There are issues there, serious issues, and being stuck with those issues for the next ten years is something to really think about before making that kind of commitment.

Like I said before, I'm not totally against acquiring him but please stop referring to his contract as a positive. At best, it's a huge gamble with some value to be gained for the next couple of years.
I would remind some that Dean has said in the past that once a room has matured (and the Kings' room has) you can add a player that may not have the best reputation of the ice if the talent on the ice is there.

I am not saying Carter is a problem player, but I doubt it is a major concern now that Dean has his leadership group in place.

I would start by offering Johnson and would try to avoid any "+" being Bernier.

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01-26-2012, 02:50 PM
  #271
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It is ironic that Kings fans are running around spewing this cancerous talk after so feverishly defending Richards. Suddenly the tabloids were right about Carter, but Richards is a saint.

Bottom line, people need to play some moneyball here. Carter is on a discount contract for the rest of his career and is a 35-40 goal scoring forward for a reasonable price. I don't care about what rumor you want to perpetuate and make up about his character, he ideally addresses this team's greatest need in the most effective manner. I don't see how people can complain when we are getting the Flyers' offense mixed with the Kings' defense and goaltending for a reasonable cost long term. That is a pretty powerful combination to say the least.
No you see one will magically appear in UFA and sign with the Kings.

You got it all wrong man.



Parise will cost 7m minimum and that contract will be at least 7 years long(That won't even be the best offer he gets).

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01-26-2012, 02:52 PM
  #272
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From the Jackets beat writer. He's pretty credible: http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...h-jackets.html

sigh.....that's tough. They really wrecked this guy. Rushed him into the NHL and have had him backstop a terrible defensive team. No wonder his confidence is shot. Mine would be too. Columbus is just such an awful organization.

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Um, did some of you not see my post earlier. Carter was a healthy scratch once this year. They can't wait to get rid of him.
He hasn't been a healthy scratch. He broke his foot and then when he came back his shoulder got blown up.

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01-26-2012, 02:53 PM
  #273
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Um, did some of you not see my post earlier. Carter was a healthy scratch once this year. They can't wait to get rid of him.
Um, you still haven't shown which game he was a healthy scratch from. Currently, you are the only person saying he was.

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Bryzgalov's nine year contract carries a cap hit of $5.67M per year. He signed it as a UFA and was considered one of the best goalies in the league. Now we see that he's not living up to that contract and he's struggling mightily to live up to expectations. Nashville is in a more unique situation since they are not big spenders and they have most of their money invested in their starting goalie and their top two defensemen.

The Kings are different from a club like Nashville, and I don't see them spending up to $7M to re-sign Quick nor do I expect to see Quick get that much. I think a long term, front loaded contract would lockup Quick and keep him happy for the rest of his career.

Quick will be 27 when he's eligible to become a UFA and the Kings can start negotiating an extension come this summer.
It will be interesting to watch for sure Ziggy and a lot can change between now and then.

I figure salaries will rise a bit, and that will drive up the price on Quick a tad as well. Bryzgalov is an interesting comparision, but even he wasn't a true UFA in the sense he could sign wherever. Had he held out a few more days until July 1st he could have, but he took Philly's offer.

The last legit UFA goalie was Christobal Huet, and he got a cap hit almost the same as what Bryzgalov's is, despite being a less proven netminder. If Quick wins a major trophy, or LA goes on a bit of a run this post-season and/r next year, I doubt Quick won't exceed Huet money by a fair bit.

There is a wide range of options where Quick could fall, anywhere from $5 million to over $7 million. I'm waging currently on $6.3 million to $6.5 million based on what's going on now. That could change as more salaries are negotiated though.

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01-26-2012, 02:55 PM
  #274
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Bummer

It's pretty much not worth it for the Kings to swap roster players. Unless those players are Stoll/Penner/Richardson/Lewis/Westy.

The Kings can't fill the Huge gap SCuds/Mitchell/ Greene would leave. Unless they were trading for some one similiar.
Yea, and there is the mind bender for Dean Lombardi on this one. And probably a lot of trade scenarios...


Should he risk losing one of those guys to improve the forward depth. I personally wouldn't do it. Maybe if Buffalo sweetened the deal a bit.

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01-26-2012, 03:07 PM
  #275
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Lyle Richardson reported this morning that the rumored asking price for Ales Hemsky was a 1st rounder + top prospect. He reported that the Oilers asked for Nashville's 1st + Jon Blum from the Preds, which was obviously rejected. It sounds like asking prices are very high right now with the limited amount of definite sellers.

it's spector....so take it for what it is.

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