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Would this team be in First Place with Brad Richards?

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:03 AM
  #1
Kruschiki
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Would this team be in First Place with Brad Richards?

Seems like a ludicrous proposition, but NYR have gone from garbage to Conference power house with essentially one free agent signing.

This #1 center problem has been an issue for years, but we always had TC down the middle for stretches. Yes, there has been tons of injuries, but we have never been weaker down the middle than this year.

All these under performers are wingers who have no one to get them the puck.

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01-26-2012, 10:12 AM
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Zman5778
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Would Brad Richards have magically prevented this team from getting injured?

This team has issues that run FAR deeper than the lack of a #1 center.


Richards may have helped, but then maybe we're looking at a team fighting for the playoffs instead of fighting for Grigorgenko.

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01-26-2012, 10:14 AM
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enrothorne
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They weren't garbage before he signed. Be more realistic.

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01-26-2012, 10:16 AM
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Clock
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I don't think so. Richards has been in a bit of a slump overall this season in relation to previous years.

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01-26-2012, 10:21 AM
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Kruschiki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Would Brad Richards have magically prevented this team from getting injured?

This team has issues that run FAR deeper than the lack of a #1 center.


Richards may have helped, but then maybe we're looking at a team fighting for the playoffs instead of fighting for Grigorgenko.
Where is this team without injuries? Probably around 7th/8th place and underachieving.

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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
They weren't garbage before he signed. Be more realistic.
You are right, but they were basically the Sabres.

Season GP W L OTL Pts GF GA Finish Playoffs
200607 82 42 30 10 94 242 216 3rd, Atlantic Lost in Conference Semifinals, 2-4 (Sabres)
200708 82 42 27 13 97 213 199 3rd, Atlantic Lost in Conference Semifinals, 1-4 (Penguins)
200809 82 43 30 9 95 210 218 4th, Atlantic Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 3-4 (Capitals)
200910 82 38 33 11 87 222 217 4th, Atlantic Did not qualify
2010-11 82 44 33 5 93 233 198 3rd, Atlantic Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 1-4 (Capitals)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clock View Post
I don't think so. Richards has been in a bit of a slump overall this season in relation to previous years.
He creates opportunity for other lines by drawing checking centers and #1 defensive pairings.

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01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
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He'd probably be on IR with some malady or other, just like the rest.

That said, I think your premise is sound. They've had **** all down the middle yet again but even Richards having a middling season is better than the oft-injured Hecht, the ridiculously inconsistent rookie Adam, or the better-on-wing Boyes. Given that they are having issues generating goals, a high-end playmaker anywhere in the lineup (if that guy were healthy) would push them up the standings. Five or six goals over the course of this 12-13 game recent stretch likely equates to a couple of wins, even with Miller/Enroth sieving it up and the injury carousel.

All-wing, no-center is no way to build a lineup.

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01-26-2012, 10:35 AM
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barnell
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First place? No. Though I am pretty sure that if we had signed him we would be in much the same position that the Rangers find themselves in. They were a tallented team that just had not been able to put everything together. Get a #1 center and everything magically jells.

Sure the problems run deeper, but does anyone realistically think that if we had performed a bit better, or if perhaps someone had stood up to Lucic the first time, that we all might be looking at this team a bit differently right now?

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01-26-2012, 10:40 AM
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I doubt that the team would be in first place.

But, I do believe that they would be significantly better than they are today and closer to winning a Stanley Cup.

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01-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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We do need a #1 center, but I think there are other problems that are deeper. Lack of motivation, leadership, and confidence have been huge problems this year, as have injuries, obviously. Would Richards have changed those things? Maybe some of them.

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01-26-2012, 11:00 AM
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Too bad our city isn't named after a bird. Our logo could be two wings with no body in the middle lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
He'd probably be on IR with some malady or other, just like the rest.

That said, I think your premise is sound. They've had **** all down the middle yet again but even Richards having a middling season is better than the oft-injured Hecht, the ridiculously inconsistent rookie Adam, or the better-on-wing Boyes. Given that they are having issues generating goals, a high-end playmaker anywhere in the lineup (if that guy were healthy) would push them up the standings. Five or six goals over the course of this 12-13 game recent stretch likely equates to a couple of wins, even with Miller/Enroth sieving it up and the injury carousel.

All-wing, no-center is no way to build a lineup.

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01-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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Kruschiki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnell View Post
First place? No. Though I am pretty sure that if we had signed him we would be in much the same position that the Rangers find themselves in. They were a tallented team that just had not been able to put everything together. Get a #1 center and everything magically jells.

Sure the problems run deeper, but does anyone realistically think that if we had performed a bit better, or if perhaps someone had stood up to Lucic the first time, that we all might be looking at this team a bit differently right now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I doubt that the team would be in first place.

But, I do believe that they would be significantly better than they are today and closer to winning a Stanley Cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP View Post
We do need a #1 center, but I think there are other problems that are deeper. Lack of motivation, leadership, and confidence have been huge problems this year, as have injuries, obviously. Would Richards have changed those things? Maybe some of them.
I think this is why it is hard for Pegula to fire the GM and coach.

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01-26-2012, 11:57 AM
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TehDoak
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Remember:

Adding Richards @ 7 million means subtracting not only Leino but another piece as well.

Either way, its a moot point. He wanted to play in NYC. He went and toured NYC with Avery before July 1. He wasn't coming to Buffalo.

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01-26-2012, 12:04 PM
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Kruschiki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Either way, its a moot point.
It depends on what point I am trying to make. If people can agree that one player would have made a difference this season, then maybe it's not so easy to fire the GM and coach.

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01-26-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsaas View Post
Too bad our city isn't named after a bird. Our logo could be two wings with no body in the middle lol.
Or like a bastardized version of John Madden's turkey with 6 or 8 wings instead of legs.

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01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
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There's a reason I don't like hypotheticals. To posit this correctly, one would need to assume whom on the roster would be displaced from both a cap and position standpoint.

Yes Richards = No Adam (center position)

Yes Richards = No Leino (FA money target)

Yes Richards = No ????
(cap space: Assume Richards signed for a little more in cap hit than what he signed for in NYC, say Leino_cap$ + $2M-$3M, or someone like Sekera or Leopold, but those $ would more likely come from forward ranks, so Boyes??)

[Note: I can't remember what AlKo's deal was, but I think it was too rich to fit in the above equation - ignoring his ability at this point in his career.]

Yes Richards = Yes Adam (with Leino not acquired, and Boyes moved out, Adam would be up playing in BUF.)

Therefore, with the above scenario is that squad in 1st place? Highly doubt it.
The Pros:
Vanek-Richards-Pomminville are probably having a better year than the three of them have had to date.
Probably some higher secondary scoring, as others noted, with 26-19-29 drawing the top checking assignments.

The Cons:
Sporadic goaltending.
Poor team defense.
Still a lot of injuries.
Stafford still doesn't give a ****.

edit: Doak was making similar points while I was typing my response.


Last edited by brian_griffin: 01-26-2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Trying to work a job while posting...
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01-26-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Remember:

Adding Richards @ 7 million means subtracting not only Leino but another piece as well.

Either way, its a moot point. He wanted to play in NYC. He went and toured NYC with Avery before July 1. He wasn't coming to Buffalo.
Later, Boyes.

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01-26-2012, 06:28 PM
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static80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Would Brad Richards have magically prevented this team from getting injured?

This team has issues that run FAR deeper than the lack of a #1 center.


Richards may have helped, but then maybe we're looking at a team fighting for the playoffs instead of fighting for Grigorgenko.
Poor counter point. Of course the addition of Brad Richards would have prevented some of the injuries, he would have changed the dynamic of the team overall by his very presence.

Would he have created new injuries? I can't answer that. No one can, but you can undoubtedly say that his presence on the ice would have changed the top 2 scoring lines dynamics immensely.

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01-26-2012, 06:52 PM
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id be more interested in losing out on richards and somehow losing out on leino lol

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01-26-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Remember:

Adding Richards @ 7 million means subtracting not only Leino but another piece.
Ok, can you list a reason why we shouldn't have signed him?

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01-26-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Remember:

Adding Richards @ 7 million means subtracting not only Leino but another piece as well.

Either way, its a moot point. He wanted to play in NYC. He went and toured NYC with Avery before July 1. He wasn't coming to Buffalo.
Yep. That's the unfortunate truth. He wasn't coming to Buffalo and he wasn't going to Los Angeles, Calgary, or Toronto either. He knew he was going to New York since before he even hit the market and kindly listened to offers from the other teams as a good gesture IMO. However, he knew where he wanted to be and presumably took less to go there.

Would we be a better team with a true #1 center, yes probably. But would this season be so much different? I doubt it. Injuries and under-achievement have plagued us and the coaching has even been questionable, not to mention the goaltending and defense have been atrocious at times. Richards or not, we'd still have problems. Brad Richards is one of my favorite players but I'll admit he wouldn't come close to fixing everything. It's not practical nor possible.

To be fair to the Rangers, they've made the playoffs five out of the last six seasons since the lockout. We've made them only four. They've not had success in the playoffs but they've been nowhere near "garbage" the last six years. They've been a consistently good regular season team every year except for one.

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01-26-2012, 07:38 PM
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Certainly not first but def in the top 8..

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01-26-2012, 10:09 PM
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this team would be all up in it with be=radd/ radness

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01-26-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruschiki View Post
Seems like a ludicrous proposition, but NYR have gone from garbage to Conference power house with essentially one free agent signing.
Garbage? Really?

Are you Kevin Sylvester in disguise?

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01-26-2012, 10:43 PM
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My answer is no assuming Millers play would have been the same.

And add Enroth to that after NHL shooters figured him out.

If the Lucic hit along with 10 missed game plus a bunch of games where he's been out to lunch, never happened, it might have been different.

But I don't see that Richards would have been a factor in any of that.

I'm not laying it all on Millers back but good seasons are typically grounded in solid goaltending and everything else eminates outward from there.

The question was whether 1 specific FWD would have changed things. I don't think so.

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01-26-2012, 11:10 PM
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My answer is no assuming Millers play would have been the same.

And add Enroth to that after NHL shooters figured him out.

If the Lucic hit along with 10 missed game plus a bunch of games where he's been out to lunch, never happened, it might have been different.

But I don't see that Richards would have been a factor in any of that.

I'm not laying it all on Millers back but good seasons are typically grounded in solid goaltending and everything else eminates outward from there.

The question was whether 1 specific FWD would have changed things. I don't think so.
I don't think it's fair to place a teams problems who can only score one goal a game on goaltending, if we had Richards the production likely would be better and we'd Probly be in 7/8th

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