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Are you willing to give Gomez another chance?

View Poll Results: Are you willing to give Gomez another chance?
Yes, i think he can help this team if he's on his game 98 38.28%
No, trade him, wave him, I don't care. He's dead to me. 158 61.72%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-26-2012, 02:55 PM
  #201
Erik Estrada
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post

But yes, way overpaid. That's the knock on him. The average fan sees that salary and expects 90 points a year or more. It's not going to happen with Gomez but the intangibles he brings as the author calls them are a big help to the team.

.
Sedins make 6 M. It's hard to give him a fair shake because of the elephant in the room.

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01-26-2012, 03:34 PM
  #202
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As long as he's not a nuisance to the team, I'm not against giving him another chance. However, if his cap hit turns out to be a burden when the time to resign Price and Subban comes, then we'll have to waive him or bury him in the AHL. As of right now, he's not a detriment to the team, though. He may not be an offensive force, but he's good defensively and one of our best forward when it comes to skate with the puck and freaking get it into the offensive zone. He also seems to be a good guy in the room, despite all his issues on the ice and the fans booing him.

I actually wouldn't be against the idea of resigning him... For 6 less millions.

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01-26-2012, 03:47 PM
  #203
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No! You don't pay a guy 7.5 for intangibles! Cole is as good as leader off and on the Ice and produces . Gomez' cap hit Is killing the team. I'd be shocked and dissapointed if molson decides to bring him back

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01-26-2012, 03:51 PM
  #204
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I think that by "intangibles", Charron isn't meaning the "leadership" kind of intangibles, more the kind that means "stuff you do on the ice that makes your team win even if you don't get points".

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01-26-2012, 03:51 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
No! You don't pay a guy 7.5 for intangibles! Cole is as good as leader off and on the Ice and produces . Gomez' cap hit Is killing the team. I'd be shocked and dissapointed if molson decides to bring him back
Notice I said bring him back for 6 less millions. He'd be an ideal 3rd liner on most teams.

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01-26-2012, 04:19 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Good article. Well researched and the guys knows his hockey.

I've been defending Gomez at work with a few co-workers since noticing the Habs tend to win more when he's in the lineup and getting laughed at but this article brings factual evidence to what I've been trying to say. He's very important in a puck possession system and brings a lot of speed and is a premier passer.

But yes, way overpaid. That's the knock on him. The average fan sees that salary and expects 90 points a year or more. It's not going to happen with Gomez but the intangibles he brings as the author calls them are a big help to the team.

He's a victim of that contract and a victim of the casual fan perspective and the aping phenomenon. (I.E I see/read someone mocking Gomez and bashing him so I should do the same).

Good write-up. Not your usual stuff and very intuitive.
Sorry but this is ********. There is absolutely nobody that expected Gomez to score 90 pts. I know you're trying to make fun of the haters but what you said is simply a lie. Most people was expecting and would be happy if gomez scores around 55-65pts.

I've been defending Gomez lately and hated that he was booed yesterday but saying he is a victim of this or that is just ridiculous. I admit that the team is better with him in the line up but that's not saying much especially when we are talking about the highest paid Habs in history.

He's not a victim of his contract anymore because most of the fans don't expect him to be a 70 pts player. What they want is a guy that can score 15g/60pts season but he can't even do that anymore. If he is use as a real third liner ok, his production would not matter that much but games after games, he plays around 18min and on every PP but still can't manage to give us a decent goal and points production.

I try to defend th guy but when I see stuff like "you guys hate him because you expect him to score 90pts or he's a victim of this and that" makes it very hard for me to defend him. I bet the fans dont want to make fun of him... But when you go scoreless for 50 games or a ****ing year... Please don't blame the fans or says he's a victm.

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01-26-2012, 05:27 PM
  #207
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Here's the thing you're missing when you say that: if Gomez is actually good enough that he can singlehandedly turn a team that can only win one-third of its games into one that wins over half its games... then he'd be vastly underpaid at 7 million, and would almost certainly be worth league maximum, and then some. We're talking about 15 extra wins over a season, that's enough to turn the new York Islanders into the San Jose Sharks.

Now obviously, no player in the league is that good. This calculation flatters Gomez a fair bit, not least because the Habs have had other injuries when he was out. And there's no way the Habs are really a .333 club without him. But he nonetheless improves his club a heck of a lot more than his point total would suggest.
Wait a minute.... Hold the phone...

Are u saying that Gomez is NOT single-handily the cause of the huge diff in win% with/without him in the lineup???

Get out of town!

Don't know how I could have missed that, and here I thought that the stats never lie...

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01-26-2012, 05:35 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
No! You don't pay a guy 7.5 for intangibles! Cole is as good as leader off and on the Ice and produces . Gomez' cap hit Is killing the team. I'd be shocked and dissapointed if molson decides to bring him back
No way he is with the Habs next year...Hamilton is the likely destination...

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01-26-2012, 10:18 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Are u saying that Gomez is NOT single-handily the cause of the huge diff in win% with/without him in the lineup???
Of course not. It's a small samples and there are umpteen other factors, and I said as much in my post. That would be where microstats come in, to take a deeper, more detailed look at the effect he's having on the game.

But at the very least, at the macro level, this ought to cast the "Habs are better off without Gomez" assertion in some doubt, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Don't know how I could have missed that, and here I thought that the stats never lie...
They don't lie. They just take some thought to understand.


Last edited by MathMan: 01-26-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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Old
01-26-2012, 10:25 PM
  #210
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No, bury this guy in the minors and save the cap space at season's end

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01-27-2012, 12:05 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Of course not. It's a small samples and there are umpteen other factors, and I said as much in my post. That would be where microstats come in, to take a deeper, more detailed look at the effect he's having on the game.

But at the very least, at the macro level, this ought to cast the "Habs are better off without Gomez" assertion in some doubt, no?
i suppose it would cast some doubt... IF one does nothing but look at a stat sheet and not actually watch the games being played.



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They don't lie. They just take some thought to understand.
as does sarcasm... apparently.

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01-27-2012, 12:20 AM
  #212
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I think he's been about as useful as we could have hoped since he's come back from injury and not like he was terrible at the start of the season, he's been injured most of it.

Thing is, people want to bury him in the minors and free up cap space, but for what? Who is going to help us that we currently aren't signing because we don't have the money. In terms of intangibles, I REALLY like what Gomez brings. In fact they aren't even intangibles, they're quite obvious. Our transition game has been a LOT better with him. Our puck retrieval, our passing down low to set up scoring plays, gaining the zone (yeah it's mentioned a lot, for a reason) and last time I cheked he's not doing too bad on pts. He has set up quite a few goals lately.

thing is, fine bury him when we have a plan, when we need the money, but not to get some B level player who we're just sticking in the lineup. To replace Gomez, you have to get a player who's going to have some other skill that is of use to us.

For the moment, consider Gomez's recent play (and the sample size is large enough). Is there someone we can get or trade for that we don't have enough money for? When it comes to signing our players (Price, AK, Subban...yes I want them all), fine I'm ok with the Gomez dump, but not appreciating that he can help us win despite the contract is not looking at the picture practically. For the moment you can forget his contract cuz he is bringing it like he's being paid a ton of money. Like I said, show me the proposals of who we're definitely signing and I'll listen. In the meantime, I hope he keeps it up. I'm happy with his game right now.

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Old
01-27-2012, 12:31 AM
  #213
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I brought this up a couple months ago but its still true. Gomez is still out producing Ovechkin at even strength

Ovechkin: 1.67 points per 60 minutes ES (depth top six rate)
Gomez: 1.84 points per 60 minutes ES (unremarkable top six rate)

He's actually leading the league in primary assist rate at ES over a smaller sample size than most.

Like a lot of guys on this team he'd look a lot better if the powerplay functioned.

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01-27-2012, 01:12 AM
  #214
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I don't know if this was mentionned before in this thread. I came across the following:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...+5+17+18+19+20

Scott Gomez is first in the entire NHL for first assists ratio per 60 mins played.

He's a playmaker, a leader, a energy catalyst and a defensive forward. He is vastly, obscenely, overpaid.

Keep him, we can affort him, and we've got other more structural problems.

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01-27-2012, 01:19 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by jphabs View Post
I don't know if this was mentionned before in this thread. I came across the following:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...+5+17+18+19+20

Scott Gomez is first in the entire NHL for first assists ratio per 60 mins played.

He's a playmaker, a leader, a energy catalyst and a defensive forward. He is vastly, obscenely, overpaid.

Keep him, we can affort him, and we've got other more structural problems.
In that same category, where did he rank last season, over the entire season?

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01-27-2012, 01:23 AM
  #216
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In that same category, where did he rank last season, over the entire season?
Much much worse. About 1/3rd as good as he's done so far this year.

Like a few of us predicted last year Gomez's point production at even strength has rebounded to around his career rate. Its the lack of powerplay points, where he was quite solid last year, that's making him look bad this time around. He's been a microcosm of the Hab's offensive woes in each season.

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01-27-2012, 01:25 AM
  #217
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In that same category, where did he rank last season, over the entire season?
Hmm... you got me, he was 303rd...

THe year before he was 29th (18th in playoffs), though. And the year before,19th (last year with NYR).

So, there you have it. I still think he's more valuable on the ice and that he's victim of that stupid contract.

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01-27-2012, 01:27 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Much much worse. About 1/3rd as good as he's done so far this year.

Like a few of us predicted last year Gomez's point production at even strength has rebounded to around his career rate. Its the lack of powerplay points, where he was quite solid last year, that's making him look bad this time around. He's been a microcosm of the Hab's offensive woes in each season.
09/10 over 70 games had him rank 16th, same category. Am I reading it correctly?

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01-27-2012, 01:29 AM
  #219
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09/10 over 70 games had him rank 16th, same category. Am I reading it correctly?
Yes you are. I forgot to adjust the number of games played, I was looking at stats with 10 GP and up.

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01-27-2012, 01:35 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
09/10 over 70 games had him rank 16th, same category. Am I reading it correctly?
Yah. He's just as high the season before that. Primary assists and offensive zone time generation are Gomez's bread and butter, its how he makes up for being a terrible shooter.

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01-27-2012, 01:40 AM
  #221
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unless you're in a position to bring in a big salary, there is not much reason to bury him in the minors.
Until that day, people just have to

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01-27-2012, 02:14 AM
  #222
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unless you're in a position to bring in a big salary, there is not much reason to bury him in the minors.
Until that day, people just have to
perhaps... and to his credit, he has seemingly "embraced the suck" and seems fine with being used in whatever way the coaching staff sees fit (as opposed to pulling a Cammy and blaming everyone else for his lack of production).


but a few things make me hesitate...

if the habs keep him in the roster next year:

- will they permanently move him to the wing? will he continue to be fine with it long-term?
- will the habs be as open/aggressive in bidding on players with big price tags that become available in season, if it would require demoting Gomez (even if he's playing better, or well enough to warrant NHL role?)
- will Eller be able to get some much needed/deserved PP time as long as Gomez is around?


those 3 issues are what push me toward "get rid of him PERIOD" territory.

He's not a cancer, he's not a useless player on the ice, but he is CLEARLY a player who has no potential to perform anywhere near his cap hit, and a player with the experience/respect that influences both coaches and teammates.

imo it's a distraction that the team is better served without, even if we go into next season with an extra 7.4M$ of cap space that we ultimately cannot effectively use (which, imo, any half decent GM would EASILY be able to improve his roster with, even if only by upgrading his 4th line & extra dman).

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01-27-2012, 02:16 AM
  #223
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Gomez should be the Captain of the team.


Just blew your mind

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01-27-2012, 09:02 PM
  #224
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the habs should only give him another chance if he starts to pay them about 7mill. a year back.and then only have him around as the waterboy.

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01-27-2012, 09:05 PM
  #225
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Last Gomez goal Feb 5 2011

So we have Buffalo, New Jersey and Washington next week. Last chance for Gomez to avoid going one full year without scoring a goal. I hope he does it, really, but will he?

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