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Cole on Subban: Selfishness

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:52 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I would say that PK isn't even in a sophomore slump.
I think people are just incapable of properly evaluating the kid.

The number of board battles he wins, the plays he breaks up, the way he breaks out and moves the puck so well. People can't even see the nice plays. They only focus on the bad, because the bad is analyzed about a million times more than the good plays. Media don't talk about the good. They might point out a good play, here and there. They'll say it was a great play, and then move on.
A mistake however, is repeated non stop.

I'm actually pleased with PK's season. His offensive production is not as good, but defensively he's been pretty good if you look at the big picture, as opposed to mistakes.
I agree. I think he's been the best dman, he just has enormous talent, so many little things go unnoticed. The one time he tries to stick handle through the neutral zone as the last man back and gets picked off sits in the back of every ones head. These plays have happened a little more frequently than one would like, but overall, with a player with his skill set, you have to take the good with the bad. He's a high octane, 22 year old kid who's going to screw up from time to time.

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01-26-2012, 10:58 AM
  #102
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I don't mind silly mistakes like his turnover against Pitts. He was clearly biting his own fingers after the play, and I said a lot of time the forwards' confusion on that play was laughable.

But petty retaliation penalties while your team is establishing momentum? Come on, PK. You should know better. This isn't so much about the efficiency of the play on ice as the effect you have on your fellow players.

They had a good early lead. You get a Power Play. Your team NEEDS to keep pressuring, or you'll know they will lose the initiative in this game... And you take a 2 minutes for abso-freaking-nothing?

Thank Desharnais an his lucky tip-in who kept us going strong.

When Subban plays in a way that saps our energy, initiative or momentum, that's when I hate him. Not when he makes a silly mistake.

When Subban plays in a way that makes us going strong, be aggressive, that's when I love him. Sure, he might do a mistake, but at least he's trying hard to spark the team.

Subban has a moral effect on the team, for the better and the worse. When he'll learn that his behavior makes the difference in his team's performance, and try to harness it, he'll be a hero.

Proof: we were completely dominated early 3rd, when Subban got his first shift. He carried the puck far and fast. He gave everybody on his team some breathing room, and even a scoring chance. He can't do it everytime, obviously.

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01-26-2012, 10:59 AM
  #103
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I guess I am in the middle here because I dont really have much issue with what cole said and I wouldnt want the habs to trade PK. Blame on both sides really. PG should dose the fire by saying he isnt being traded and Pk needs a reality check to get his head together. No one has taken worse/selfish penalties than PK this year for the most part and last nights game was a good time to sit him for a period because he wasnt needed to contribute. I am assuming that since price gorges and cole all mentioned it that it isnt the first time he has been talked to about it and if public comments are needed then that is that. Sucks people will blow it up but that is the media around this franchise.

edit: by reality check for PK I mean in regards to his terrible penalty taking.

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01-26-2012, 11:16 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
Trying to send a message is taking the kid, slamming him against a locker and telling him to get his head out of his ass. Veterans complaining to the media is immature. Airing out their dirty laundry regardless of how apparent it already is to the public, is something you shouldn't do. It could create rifts in the dressing room, and can be taken personally rather than as a message to wake up. I know if I was screwing around and someone went to the media about it, I would be pissed and angry rather than be motivated to change (if someone had approached me personally).
Maybe they tried that already. Seriously, he's getting into fights at practice and there's all this crap flying around. We don't really know what's going on here. Obviously the vets were asked questions about it and answered the way they did. It's not like they ripped him publicly they just said 'we can't take selfish penalties.' It's not like they came out and said 'we hate PK.' I don't think it's a big deal.

Again, we're talking about a 22 year old kid. They're trying to help him not hurt him. Maybe they've tried different options and this is a new tactic. Whatever, I wouldn't worry too much about this.
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
And calm the balls down. You guys throw around the term "cancer" too often. Gomez is a cancer. Cammy is a cancer. Kovalev is a cancer. Koivu is cancer, Carbo, Martin, Gainey, Subban, Higgins, etc. etc. etc. are all people who've been called cancers here, and it's really disgusting.

Also, the whole Subban hate is ridiculous. Look at Myers, Bogosian and especially Doughty. Sophomore slumps aren't unheard of, and Subban's game is run and gun and being a rogue, flashy guy. That's what he does. Because he has bumps early on means he's learning. He plays a tough game, and he's only going to get better. Do you guys really think he's lost it? I know he'd be better on Washington, or in a more offensive team, but for the sake and love of this franchise, I pray that the same idiots who post here who want him gone don't share the mindset of the management.
I don't think there are too many (apart from Young Gun) who have hate for Subban. Bottom line is he's one of our biggest prospects and is flashy and brash. The media are looking for things to report and a fight at practice is a story for them. Any kind of dispute on the bench just fuels it and then we get the benching...

Funny thing is though, every analyst out there that I've seen have said that they'd love to have this guy so, it's just a maturity issue. PK has some growing to do but he'll be fine.

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01-26-2012, 11:41 AM
  #105
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If there is to guys who can call him out like that, its Cole and Gorges... I trust their judgment so if they said it, I beleive that they had their reasons to beleive it was the correct thing to do...

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01-26-2012, 11:44 AM
  #106
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no issue with Cole saying what he said... perfectly right.


but one of these days it would be nice for someone in the organization, player or coach, to step up and definitively throw their support behind PK.

don't always agree with C.Button, but he hit it right on the head... at some point someone in the organization needs to wake up, acknowledge what a valuable asset PK is, and give him a little boost of public support.


if we end up trading Subban, it will make the Ribiero/Grabovsky/S.Kost blunders look like absolute steals in comparison.

he's a very talented, gregarious kid, with a good attitude and work ethic, who occasionally gets a bit carried away. He's obviously an emotional guy, and sometimes those emotions come out in unproductive ways. Time and maturity will "fix" that, and when they do, he'll be a top-10 dman in the league.

we need to hope and pray that he reaches his full potential with us, and not with some other team while we try to squeeze out a few more games from another niinimaa/boyd.

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01-26-2012, 11:46 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
If there is to guys who can call him out like that, its Cole and Gorges... I trust their judgment so if they said it, I beleive that they had their reasons to beleive it was the correct thing to do...
agreed

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01-26-2012, 12:28 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
no issue with Cole saying what he said... perfectly right.


but one of these days it would be nice for someone in the organization, player or coach, to step up and definitively throw their support behind PK.

don't always agree with C.Button, but he hit it right on the head... at some point someone in the organization needs to wake up, acknowledge what a valuable asset PK is, and give him a little boost of public support.


if we end up trading Subban, it will make the Ribiero/Grabovsky/S.Kost blunders look like absolute steals in comparison.

he's a very talented, gregarious kid, with a good attitude and work ethic, who occasionally gets a bit carried away. He's obviously an emotional guy, and sometimes those emotions come out in unproductive ways. Time and maturity will "fix" that, and when they do, he'll be a top-10 dman in the league.

we need to hope and pray that he reaches his full potential with us, and not with some other team while we try to squeeze out a few more games from another niinimaa/boyd.
This person should be Gauthier... But we all know what kind of "leader" he is...

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01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
  #109
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I think everyone is trying just a little bit too hard to bash the guy. We get it, he took a bad penalty, coach benched him, lesson learned. He gives away the puck sometimes. It happens. Anyone who has the puck on his stick a lot is more prone to giveaways, it's simple physics.

What I find interesting is that now we're apparently supposed to bash PK for being selfish and taking a retaliation penalty. Okay, fine. But a few weeks ago we were supposed to bash PK for being completely un-selfish and not taking a retaliation penalty when he "turtled" against Boston, causing several fans on this very site to call him classless and disgusting for not "manning up" and "answering the bell" and other crap metaphors like that.

So which is it, is he supposed to refuse to get goated into retaliating and/or fighting like in Boston or is he supposed to retaliate and take a bad penalty like against Detroit? And how on earth does he get bashed for both?

For the record, I have no problem with what Gorges and Cole said and think this is the very definition of a non-issue. Let's move on with our lives.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post

if we end up trading Subban, it will make the Ribiero/Grabovsky/S.Kost blunders look like absolute steals in comparison.
There's absolutely no chance that PK gets traded. I've yet to see anything legitimate that even hints that's even a remote possibility. All of this "trade PK" crap is just pure fantasy - other fans who want PK on their team and dirtbag media guys trying to create a story out of nothing.

See the Sportsnet "Trade Focus" thing on PK last night - ridiculous. "Are they going to trade PK? I don't think so, but they really shouldn't trade him. Let's bash Montreal because anonymous guys claim they might trade PK even though they're not going to trade PK. Gauthier's an idiot for trading PK even though he's not going to trade him".

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01-26-2012, 01:03 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I think everyone is trying just a little bit too hard to bash the guy. We get it, he took a bad penalty, coach benched him, lesson learned. He gives away the puck sometimes. It happens. Anyone who has the puck on his stick a lot is more prone to giveaways, it's simple physics.

What I find interesting is that now we're apparently supposed to bash PK for being selfish and taking a retaliation penalty. Okay, fine. But a few weeks ago we were supposed to bash PK for being completely un-selfish and not taking a retaliation penalty when he "turtled" against Boston, causing several fans on this very site to call him classless and disgusting for not "manning up" and "answering the bell" and other crap metaphors like that.

So which is it, is he supposed to refuse to get goated into retaliating and/or fighting like in Boston or is he supposed to retaliate and take a bad penalty like against Detroit? And how on earth does he get bashed for both?

For the record, I have no problem with what Gorges and Cole said and think this is the very definition of a non-issue. Let's move on with our lives.


There's absolutely no chance that PK gets traded. I've yet to see anything legitimate that even hints that's even a remote possibility. All of this "trade PK" crap is just pure fantasy - other fans who want PK on their team and dirtbag media guys trying to create a story out of nothing.

See the Sportsnet "Trade Focus" thing on PK last night - ridiculous. "Are they going to trade PK? I don't think so, but they really shouldn't trade him. Let's bash Montreal because anonymous guys claim they might trade PK even though they're not going to trade PK. Gauthier's an idiot for trading PK even though he's not going to trade him".
This ! End of story.

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01-26-2012, 01:07 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
When asked by McGuire on potential thoughts on advice for Subban:

Coaching staff had the luxury of sending the message that the selfishness is something they can't have. He said that the coaching staff made the right decision because they need Subban because he is a good player but what they don't need is the undisciplined and selfish behavior.

Thoughts on his candid post game interview with McGuire?
really why say anything-- Newbie should know his place- whats with the Subban deal? just keeps going on and on -- players even on his own team spouting of to the media- i never seen anything like it-

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01-26-2012, 01:09 PM
  #112
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really why say anything-- Newbie should know his place- whats with the Subban deal? just keeps going on and on -- players even on his own team spouting of to the media- i never seen anything like it-
Why.

Medias are asking the questions (tricked ones) and players just fall in the trap by answering.

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01-26-2012, 01:13 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Why.

Medias are asking the questions (tricked ones) and players just fall in the trap by answering.
cole isnt that dumb is he? obviously he doesnt mind slagging subban to the media- way too much of this from his own teamates it like its become fashionable- i still say if Subban was Lily white you wouldnt have have heard near as much junk from opposing players and his own teammates

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01-26-2012, 01:14 PM
  #114
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cole isnt that dumb is he? obviously he doesnt mind slagging subban to the media- way too much of this from his own teamates it like its become fashionable- i still say if Subban was Lily white you wouldnt have have heard near as much junk from opposing players and his own teammates
You really think that.

Then NHL is in deep **** !

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01-26-2012, 01:16 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
no issue with Cole saying what he said... perfectly right.


but one of these days it would be nice for someone in the organization, player or coach, to step up and definitively throw their support behind PK.

don't always agree with C.Button, but he hit it right on the head... at some point someone in the organization needs to wake up, acknowledge what a valuable asset PK is, and give him a little boost of public support.


if we end up trading Subban, it will make the Ribiero/Grabovsky/S.Kost blunders look like absolute steals in comparison.

he's a very talented, gregarious kid, with a good attitude and work ethic, who occasionally gets a bit carried away. He's obviously an emotional guy, and sometimes those emotions come out in unproductive ways. Time and maturity will "fix" that, and when they do, he'll be a top-10 dman in the league.

we need to hope and pray that he reaches his full potential with us, and not with some other team while we try to squeeze out a few more games from another niinimaa/boyd.
I don't see Subban needing "public support". Nobody has thrown him under the bus, I think there is a lot of talk lateky but none of it is over the top, just usual Montreal media overreaction.

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01-26-2012, 01:20 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You really think that.

Then NHL is in deep **** !
well isnt it possible? this is the real world

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01-26-2012, 01:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
no issue with Cole saying what he said... perfectly right.


but one of these days it would be nice for someone in the organization, player or coach, to step up and definitively throw their support behind PK.

don't always agree with C.Button, but he hit it right on the head... at some point someone in the organization needs to wake up, acknowledge what a valuable asset PK is, and give him a little boost of public support.


if we end up trading Subban, it will make the Ribiero/Grabovsky/S.Kost blunders look like absolute steals in comparison.

he's a very talented, gregarious kid, with a good attitude and work ethic, who occasionally gets a bit carried away. He's obviously an emotional guy, and sometimes those emotions come out in unproductive ways. Time and maturity will "fix" that, and when they do, he'll be a top-10 dman in the league.

we need to hope and pray that he reaches his full potential with us, and not with some other team while we try to squeeze out a few more games from another niinimaa/boyd.
I agree.. I would be nice to read something positive about PK for a change from someone with the Habs or the media.

Hopefully in a couple of years we'll all be saying how great PK is and we're so lucky the Habs didn't trade him over all the negativity that was surrounding him early in his career.. If the Habs did deal him now in a couple of years the same people saying trade him will be saying what a mistake it was dealing PK and that we should have kept him and let him develop blah, blah, blah.

Just have a little patience with PK.. The Habs will straighten him out..

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01-26-2012, 01:32 PM
  #118
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I agree.. I would be nice to read something positive about PK for a change from someone with the Habs or the media.

Hopefully in a couple of years we'll all be saying how great PK is and we're so lucky the Habs didn't trade him over all the negativity that was surrounding him early in his career.. If the Habs did deal him now in a couple of years the same people saying trade him will be saying what a mistake it was dealing PK and that we should have kept him and let him develop blah, blah, blah.

Just have a little patience with PK.. The Habs will straighten him out..
hopefull new people will do that in the habs ORG next season

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01-26-2012, 01:33 PM
  #119
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I don't see Subban needing "public support". Nobody has thrown him under the bus, I think there is a lot of talk lateky but none of it is over the top, just usual Montreal media overreaction.
are you kidding me?

Subban has taken all sorts of public abuse in his first two seasons... from rival players, coaches, the local media...


again, i don't think there was anything wrong with Cole's comments, in fact I'm glad he made them.

but on the other hand, with all the negative comments that have been said about PK (who has led the habs in ice time for the past year), it's a shame and a bit surprising that no one in the organization has had the balls or good sense to publicly back him.

i don't think for one second that a similar player in a different organization would be so little supported publicly.

if anything, most organizations go out of their way to back their young all stars at the slightest hint of negative public commentary.

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01-26-2012, 01:36 PM
  #120
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are you kidding me?

Subban has taken all sorts of public abuse in his first two seasons... from rival players, coaches, the local media...


again, i don't think there was anything wrong with Cole's comments, in fact I'm glad he made them.

but on the other hand, with all the negative comments that have been said about PK (who has led the habs in ice time for the past year), it's a shame and a bit surprising that no one in the organization has had the balls or good sense to publicly back him.

i don't think for one second that a similar player in a different organization would be so little supported publicly.

if anything, most organizations go out of their way to back their young all stars at the slightest hint of negative public commentary.
Its odd- i guess Subban sits by himself on the bus?

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01-26-2012, 06:00 PM
  #121
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Umm good riddance? None of those players are missed.
Talk for yourself, and even if i could live with the fact we don't have SK, Grabo, Latendresse, Lapierre, Ribeiro, the return we got for these guy's set the team back a few years.... unless a surprise, we will never get fair value for Subban, so either we lose with a bad trade, or we are patient with him lile we were with Subban, Gorges.....

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01-26-2012, 06:42 PM
  #122
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are you kidding me?

Subban has taken all sorts of public abuse in his first two seasons... from rival players, coaches, the local media...


again, i don't think there was anything wrong with Cole's comments, in fact I'm glad he made them.

but on the other hand, with all the negative comments that have been said about PK (who has led the habs in ice time for the past year), it's a shame and a bit surprising that no one in the organization has had the balls or good sense to publicly back him.

i don't think for one second that a similar player in a different organization would be so little supported publicly.

if anything, most organizations go out of their way to back their young all stars at the slightest hint of negative public commentary.
The Captain should take Subban aside, privately. Talk to him as many times as it takes to get the right message to sink in. Daily if needed.

And for once it would be nice if Gauthier could prove to us that he picked up more than Gainey's bad habits. Where is Gauthier's "thoroughbred" moment, or his Brisebois-boobird staredown?

Too busy trying to save his own skin to think about much else I suppose.

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01-27-2012, 12:13 AM
  #123
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The Captain should take Subban aside, privately. Talk to him as many times as it takes to get the right message to sink in. Daily if needed.

And for once it would be nice if Gauthier could prove to us that he picked up more than Gainey's bad habits. Where is Gauthier's "thoroughbred" moment, or his Brisebois-boobird staredown?

Too busy trying to save his own skin to think about much else I suppose.
given what an epic struggle that "should" be (assuming our owner isn't as clueless as he has appeared to be at times), I guess it's understandable that he has little time to focus on anything else.

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01-27-2012, 12:33 AM
  #124
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we talk about getting gritty guys. In your face guys. Players that will get under the opposition's skin.

PK gets "selfish" penalties for actually playing good defensive hockey and being less forgiving than some of the others (and that's fine). Where Emelin is good at straight up hammering guys, PK uses his body and stick to play against the best players in the league. If he gives them some shoving and a tough time, whatever, I have no problem with that.

All of a sudden it's as if he just keeps retaliating. There are soooo many times that they other players have gotten off their game cuz of his play and he just skates away and doesn't engage. Never get noticed/other teams get pissed cuz he won't engage them (and...get a penalty).

This really overblown penalty in the Det game was just that. Then everyone seems to recall every penalty that he's taken as a bad one.

I hope we don't get any gritty players who don't give up cuz guess what -- they DO get penalties. The calls in the NHL are so incredibly chintzy for stick and trip calls, not to mention the subjectivity of "holding/hooking". Pronger gets all the love for being a guy who's PIMs are sky high, but PK is selfish.

I am ok with the coaching, and I'm sure RC and Cole and Pleks see something that needs to be corrected, but as fans, I just don't see how his play has been underrated so much and how he's thought of as so selfish just cuz it's the flavour of the day. PG should calm the storm (as if) and just say PK is being taught. It has, in the past done him some good.

Remember the little push Emelin gave (I think it was) Helm? It wasn't much and a little dangerous, but it was far more selfish than PK getting tangled with Cleary who BTW fully put his glove around PK's face. Why don't we make a big deal out of it? Cuz RDS hasn't made a big deal out of it. Cuz it's not the talk of the town.

I guess I'm saying that whatever problems PK is having, they are quite internal to the team and perhaps they're there, but I just don't see him being selfish IN GAME. Haters gonna hate. PK Subban edition. I hope Price has some advice for him.

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01-27-2012, 12:41 AM
  #125
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we talk about getting gritty guys. In your face guys. Players that will get under the opposition's skin.

PK gets "selfish" penalties for actually playing good defensive hockey and being less forgiving than some of the others (and that's fine). Where Emelin is good at straight up hammering guys, PK uses his body and stick to play against the best players in the league. If he gives them some shoving and a tough time, whatever, I have no problem with that.

All of a sudden it's as if he just keeps retaliating. There are soooo many times that they other players have gotten off their game cuz of his play and he just skates away and doesn't engage. Never get noticed/other teams get pissed cuz he won't engage them (and...get a penalty).

This really overblown penalty in the Det game was just that. Then everyone seems to recall every penalty that he's taken as a bad one.

I hope we don't get any gritty players who don't give up cuz guess what -- they DO get penalties. The calls in the NHL are so incredibly chintzy for stick and trip calls, not to mention the subjectivity of "holding/hooking". Pronger gets all the love for being a guy who's PIMs are sky high, but PK is selfish.

I am ok with the coaching, and I'm sure RC and Cole and Pleks see something that needs to be corrected, but as fans, I just don't see how his play has been underrated so much and how he's thought of as so selfish just cuz it's the flavour of the day. PG should calm the storm (as if) and just say PK is being taught. It has, in the past done him some good.

Remember the little push Emelin gave (I think it was) Helm? It wasn't much and a little dangerous, but it was far more selfish than PK getting tangled with Cleary who BTW fully put his glove around PK's face. Why don't we make a big deal out of it? Cuz RDS hasn't made a big deal out of it. Cuz it's not the talk of the town.

I guess I'm saying that whatever problems PK is having, they are quite internal to the team and perhaps they're there, but I just don't see him being selfish IN GAME. Haters gonna hate. PK Subban edition. I hope Price has some advice for him.
Problem is, I'm sure many of them already have talked to PK. And he just isn't listening. This isn't something new that popped up. This was brought up last year when Gill was mentoring him. It's possible that PK just isn't listening and he is letting his EGO go. Which I would assume is the problem here. Cole and Gorges have the right to say what they want about him. Both those guys go out there and hustle every game.

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