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Old
01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
  #76
thephillyflu
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What? I actually think Giroux is a good penalty killer. And you can't hide the fact that penalty killers that are on for 15 goals against and 5 shorthanded goals for are more valuable than penalty killers that have 11 against and 0 for.

If someone would search up the numbers on GA/GF shorthanded both total but more importantly per unit of time on ice for penalty killers like Giroux, Kovalchuk, Grabner and then compare them to players in the Blair Betts mold, and then we'll see. Because it's not at all unusual that penalty killers like Giroux is on for 1 SH goal for every 3 goals against. Something like that, maybe 15-5 for a season. It'd be interesting.

But even without the pretty decent number of shorthanded goals he usually has been involved in, I still think he's a good penalty killer. But you can't just dismiss the GF/GA total, since some guys score a lot shorthanded and are on for even more.

And while Giroux is a good penalty killer, I'd readily agree that he' bad defensively on even strength. But that's partly because of the physical play being much more important in ES than in PK for a center. And also it is because he's focused on offense in ES.

As I said, I think he's a good penalty killer even though he's not so good defensively over all.

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01-26-2012, 10:42 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
Except maybe the scoring touch. He neither has great goal-scoring ability nor playmaking ability. Of course those aren't weaknesses since he does have scoring ability, but I don't think they are first centerman in a persistent cup contender material.

When I say "#1 Giroux, #2 Schenn, #3 Couturier", I don't mean Schenn necessarily will become a better player than Couturier, but I think that's how the roles will be distributed, with Schenn as in the role Briere has now, second string offensive center, leading our second offensive unit since of course Giroux will have the first one clinched for years to come, and Schenn also leading unit #2 on the PP (it's not impossible that he'll play with Giroux on the PP though).

Couturier however I think will become the standard "shutdown/checking center in a serious cup contender", although being good enough to be 2nd line center in most teams or maybe even first line in a few, he'll have the role most often called "3rd line center", meaning he'll kill loads of penalties and play against the opponents top line on a nightly basis, while seeing limited time on the PP compared to the top2 centers.

That's not all that unusual, having a 3rd line center that's actually a better player than the 2nd center. But I think, when all is said and done, that Schenn actually will be the better player. Schenn has a way of playing that takes time to adjust to every increase in level, while players of Couturiers size and kind are most often those that most easily adapt to an increase in playing quality. And down the line, it's much easier to teach defensive play than it is to teach scoring touch, the scoring touch is like branded into your DNA, you don't often see kids who've been defensive players in their pre-20s become stars offensively also, but you often see kids that are pure offense in their pre-20s become all star defensively also.

It's funny though, Couturier being viewed as a two-way primarily defensive center, and Schenn an offensive centerman, Couturier being much larger, and yet still Schenn has a lot more of a physical edge and plays way more physical at defense.

I haven't been able to watch Schenn enough to properly assess his defensive abilities, is he a potential Mike Richards in that category or is he pure offense like for instance Briere and'll always be a liability in that end?
Coots definitely has great goal scoring and play-making ability, more PPG than RNH in a league with less scoring (contrary to popular belief), a great shot as we have all seen, and brilliant vision for passing. He is gona end the year with 30 points minimum, playing 10-12 mins a game with no powerplay time and Shelley/Rinaldo/Sestito/Z as main wingers. The only reason he was not a top 2 pick was Mono and over analysis.

The minimum he is going to be is Jordan Staal, the ceiling is Eric offence (ppg), and Jordan defence, the great thing in the future with him will be that he will be able to play any role on our top 3 lines, and I also imagine he will be a damn good faceoff guy in future, he is not doing awfully for a rookie now, and in juniors he was a beast on the dot.

I also believe that intuitive defensive awareness that makes someone elite defensively is far harder to come by as a 30 goal scorer or PPG player, in this league there are probably 25-30 guys who can get 30 goals or be PPG if fit all year, yet how many guys in the league are selke worthy centers who get 50-70 points? Staal, Datsyuk, Richards, Kesler, Toews and Bergeron?

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01-26-2012, 11:02 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
What? I actually think Giroux is a good penalty killer. And you can't hide the fact that penalty killers that are on for 15 goals against and 5 shorthanded goals for are more valuable than penalty killers that have 11 against and 0 for.

If someone would search up the numbers on GA/GF shorthanded both total but more importantly per unit of time on ice for penalty killers like Giroux, Kovalchuk, Grabner and then compare them to players in the Blair Betts mold, and then we'll see. Because it's not at all unusual that penalty killers like Giroux is on for 1 SH goal for every 3 goals against. Something like that, maybe 15-5 for a season. It'd be interesting.

But even without the pretty decent number of shorthanded goals he usually has been involved in, I still think he's a good penalty killer. But you can't just dismiss the GF/GA total, since some guys score a lot shorthanded and are on for even more.

And while Giroux is a good penalty killer, I'd readily agree that he' bad defensively on even strength. But that's partly because of the physical play being much more important in ES than in PK for a center. And also it is because he's focused on offense in ES.

As I said, I think he's a good penalty killer even though he's not so good defensively over all.
I'm not hiding anything and I even support what you say in respect to PK in general.

So far Couturier leads the team with 2 SH.
I don't know how you back up you prediction of 5 SH for Giroux because so far he is on pace for 0 SH

Don't ge me wrong, I love what G does for this team!

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01-26-2012, 11:10 AM
  #79
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I believe Couturier can be a premium two way center for this team, much like Keith Primeau. Not high scoring but solid 50 - 60 points while playing all situations. You can move him up and down in the lineup as needed.

He is already better than Giroux in respect to defense. Giroux is the best example for a high scoring #1 center who dominates on even strength and PP but should not be used on PK at all. His +/- 0 while scoring 55 points so far reflect it.

Schenn is hard to read so far. Could turn into a high-scoring #1-#2 center or end up in a more destructive special team role long term.
I don't get the point you're making. You say Giroux dominates on ES, yet his +/- is 0 (which isn't the best stat in the world, but whatever). Also, how does his +/-, which is calculated at ES, have anything to do at all with PK ability?

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01-27-2012, 02:43 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
I don't get the point you're making. You say Giroux dominates on ES, yet his +/- is 0 (which isn't the best stat in the world, but whatever). Also, how does his +/-, which is calculated at ES, have anything to do at all with PK ability?
I agree with your point, but Giroux is actually negative at ES because he gets a + for SH goals.

Obviously a lot of it has to do with the team's low SV%, whatever you think the root of that is.

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01-27-2012, 02:48 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
In the future... Giroux, couturier, schenn... Paint me jealous... Obviously Giroux is the #1 which one of these players is #2&3?? In your opinions of course.
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Originally Posted by NewYorkFlyerFan View Post
IMO Schenn #2, Couturier #3
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
It used to be Schenn then Couturier, but I think its going to be Couturier, Schenn.
There is enough young talent in the organization to keep on going with the "three scoring lines" thing indefinitely (perhaps 5 years or more, if things break right). #2 vs #3 center is just going to be a technicality.

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01-27-2012, 04:05 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
I don't get the point you're making. You say Giroux dominates on ES, yet his +/- is 0 (which isn't the best stat in the world, but whatever). Also, how does his +/-, which is calculated at ES, have anything to do at all with PK ability?
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I agree with your point, but Giroux is actually negative at ES because he gets a + for SH goals.

Obviously a lot of it has to do with the team's low SV%, whatever you think the root of that is.
Yes, SH goals are included in the +/- in addition to even strength goals.

Claude Groux hasn't scored a SH goal all season so far and therefore he does not get a PLUS but only MINUSES when he is playing on the PK. Right?

Sean Couturier, who is first in shorthanded TOI, is a +13 overall.
Couturier does either a) score more even strengths goals than G or he b) gets scored on less when playing the PK. We know that a) is not true.

Conclusion: Cooter is a better penalty killer than G.
You get a similar result if you compare G to Matt Read in regard to the PK when checking the same numbers.

Maybe there is a far better way to do this evaluation? Maybe I'm getting confused about how the +/- is calculated? Please tell me because I really want to understand....

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01-27-2012, 04:07 AM
  #83
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Every stat I've seen has indicated that Couturier has been absolutely incredible defensively and on the PK. IMO, he's been far better than Giroux defensively.

I can't believe this guy is 19.

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01-27-2012, 04:21 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Yes, SH goals are included in the +/- in addition to even strength goals.

Claude Groux hasn't scored a SH goal all season so far and therefore he does not get a PLUS but only MINUSES when he is playing on the PK. Right?

Sean Couturier, who is first in shorthanded TOI, is a +13 overall.
Couturier does either a) score more even strengths goals than G or he b) gets scored on less when playing the PK. We know that a) is not true.

Conclusion: Cooter is a better penalty killer than G.
You get a similar result if you compare G to Matt Read in regard to the PK when checking the same numbers.

Maybe there is a far better way to do this evaluation? Maybe I'm getting confused about how the +/- is calculated? Please tell me because I really want to understand....
No. +/- is based on your TEAM goals when you are on the ice, and you can't get a - on the PK or a + on the PP. So you get a + when your teams scores ES or SH, and you get a - when your team is scored upon PP or ES.

Giroux's +/- is his + for all Flyers goals scored ES and PK, and his - for all opponents goals scored ES and Flyers PP, when Giroux is on the ice.

So you can't draw any of those conclusions from +/- .

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01-27-2012, 09:37 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
No. +/- is based on your TEAM goals when you are on the ice, and you can't get a - on the PK or a + on the PP. So you get a + when your teams scores ES or SH, and you get a - when your team is scored upon PP or ES.

Giroux's +/- is his + for all Flyers goals scored ES and PK, and his - for all opponents goals scored ES and Flyers PP, when Giroux is on the ice.

So you can't draw any of those conclusions from +/- .
And that is why +/- for a player is the worst indicator for defensive ability

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01-27-2012, 12:45 PM
  #86
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I'm talking about the scoring touch to become a #1 center in a top10 team.

I don't think Couturier has that. Based on what is shown on the ice, PPG doesn't tell all that much about potential. You could see Giroux's scoring potential when he had the same PPG average as Couturier have now, the same as you could see that Steve Downie didn't have that potential 80+ points regularly scoring touch. And I can't see Couturier having that. I see him as becoming a player that puts up maybe 60 points a normal year (like maybe a little less than Mike Richards). Which is still of course good but we want a higher producing first center?

But only time will tell, and I'm pretty sure time will tell me right. I do not think Couturier will become a top15 scorer, but I think it's more than possible for Schenn. Just watch when they were on the same team for Canada about a year ago.

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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I'm not hiding anything and I even support what you say in respect to PK in general.

So far Couturier leads the team with 2 SH.
I don't know how you back up you prediction of 5 SH for Giroux because so far he is on pace for 0 SH

Don't ge me wrong, I love what G does for this team!
I didn't mean "you" as in "you, dats81". I mean "you" as in "one". I prefer to say "you can't hide blablabla" than saying "one can't hide blabla". I'm not Sheldon Cooper dammit.

And I wasn't talking about Giroux personally scoring 5 shorthanded goals, I was talking about being on the ice for 5 shorthanded goals. You get GA-GF = 15-5 if you are on the ice for those goals, you don't have to score all of them yourself... But of course it could be viewed as unfair if coincidence makes it he has 15-5 and wasn't involved in any of the 5 goals. But if 5 goals gets scored shorthanded when Giroux is on the ice, you bet your äss he's involved in at least 4. But haven't around 5 been what he's been on for shorthanded per season? Or am I overstating? I thought he and Richie scored something like that since they were put together, last season they had 3 each + I think they were on an made assist to one or a few scored by defensemen.

Has he really been on for 0 goals for shorthanded this year?

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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
And that is why +/- for a player is the worst indicator for defensive ability
What makes it the really worst indicator is actually that how good your team is makes aaaall the difference.

It's usually the same guys that are +30 the year the team's having a good year that are -30 a bad year. Pure offense players like that, I take Ovechkin for example, the +/- is so useless it's not even funny. His best year is +45, his worst year is -19. Meszaros has had +30 twice and -15 twice, also.
A team that's great in ES and average in special teams gets great +/- for mot of it's players. A team that's better than the first team, but is average in ES but has the best special teams in the league get bad +/- for most of it's players.

You can see this mechanism in action in this year's +/- top, with it being all Boston. The #1, #2 and #3 are all Boston. They have 6 guys in the top 10. 13 guys in the top 35, that's like 70 % of their team. The rest of the top35 is mostly from a few teams.

If you play loads of minutes on a good team, you usually have good +/-, regardless of how you are as a player.

Player's that usually get good +/- regardless of where they are playing and how their team are playing, are guys that are great offensively and good defensively (Sedins) or great defensively and good offensively (harder to come up with examples, Nielsen has good +/- average in a useless +/- team, Hartnell! That's a better example. I think his defense is underrated, he gets to fix the defense in the most defensively useless surroundings, I mean Briere-Leino? Two of the leagues all-worst players defensively. Still that line worked. Jagr-Giroux, not league-worst, but still really bad).
But in the end it all comes down to what team you play with.

If you play a lot of minutes in a good team, you get good +/-. If you play lots of minutes in a bad team, you get bad +/-.
Columbus players will have useless +/-. Vancouver players will have good.


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01-27-2012, 01:20 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
I'm talking about the scoring touch to become a #1 center in a top10 team.

I don't think Couturier has that. Based on what is shown on the ice, PPG doesn't tell all that much about potential. You could see Giroux's scoring potential when he had the same PPG average as Couturier have now, the same as you could see that Steve Downie didn't have that potential 80+ points regularly scoring touch. And I can't see Couturier having that. I see him as becoming a player that puts up maybe 60 points a normal year (like maybe a little less than Mike Richards). Which is still of course good but we want a higher producing first center?

But only time will tell, and I'm pretty sure time will tell me right. I do not think Couturier will become a top15 scorer, but I think it's more than possible for Schenn. Just watch when they were on the same team for Canada about a year ago.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't understand how you miss Couturier demonstrating top-line scoring potential time and time again, in every game.

Never mind that he kills penalties like a 15 year veteran, even when they play him on the 4th line with Shelley and HarryZ/ZacR he generates pressure and scoring chances. When they put him with Talbot and Voracek, they dominate.

He is big, strong and skates well - and all those will improve has he fills out. He just turned 19 for heaven's sake. At his age, Giroux was still in JUNIOR.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=89489

Giroux is an early birthday who was drafted in spring 2006, played in the Q the next TWO years, then spent half a year with the Phantoms. Couturier is a late birthday who got drafted last spring and MADE THE NHL roster.

Three years from now there won't be a lot of D who can handle Couturier because of his:

1. patience with and ability to protect the puck on the cycle.
2. ability to see and set up his teammates and execute tough passes.
3. ability to score on top goalies by shooting it by them or picking corners
4. ability to generate off the rush and execute a 2on1 or 3on2.
5. off the charts hockey sense, composure and work ethic.

Heck, we haven't even seen guys like Giroux or Jagr skate down the wing and score by picking corners as much as Couts does it lately.

And I think Schenn is going to be just as good, in different ways. When Schenn dominating on Team Canada, he was a year older than Couturier, which makes a lot of difference in the U20s.

It's impossible to speculate how well Couts might've played had been been allowed to play in this year's tourney, but at least he made the team in his draft year, which Schenn didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brayden_Schenn

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01-27-2012, 02:37 PM
  #88
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Year this age that. Does that mean, that since Couturier is obviously a year younger than Schenn, but a lot better both offensively and defensively than him in the NHL right now, that he will become a lot better offensively in the end? Because by your logic that's almost certain.

I was just talking about when Schenn showed crystal clear #1 center potential at a reasonable, but yet, minor level. I can give another example: this year in the AHL.
Couturier hasn't showed that, but well except the WJC he hasn't had a chance really. We'll see. I can see him becoming a 30 goal scorer, for sure, but I don't agree he has that playing sense that almost always define top offensive players. Not necessarily playmaking sense though. He might come to show it, but i don't think so. I'm not blind to the fact that he's 19 and he's great for his age, but that's not really because of his scoring touch, not in my eyes. It's because he's huge, responsible defensively, has a good shot and stuff like that.

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01-27-2012, 02:38 PM
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Why can't they both become #1 centers?

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01-27-2012, 04:06 PM
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Year this age that. Does that mean, that since Couturier is obviously a year younger than Schenn, but a lot better both offensively and defensively than him in the NHL right now, that he will become a lot better offensively in the end? Because by your logic that's almost certain.

I was just talking about when Schenn showed crystal clear #1 center potential at a reasonable, but yet, minor level. I can give another example: this year in the AHL.
Couturier hasn't showed that, but well except the WJC he hasn't had a chance really. We'll see. I can see him becoming a 30 goal scorer, for sure, but I don't agree he has that playing sense that almost always define top offensive players. Not necessarily playmaking sense though. He might come to show it, but i don't think so. I'm not blind to the fact that he's 19 and he's great for his age, but that's not really because of his scoring touch, not in my eyes. It's because he's huge, responsible defensively, has a good shot and stuff like that.
You refer to Schenn's abilities in Jr. and the AHL, but Couturier led the Q in scoring at age 16, something unheard of since a kid named Crosby. Doesn't that count?

It's also not really fair, or possible, to compare Couturier and Schenn this year because Schenn's been hurt for most of it. Now that he's back in the lineup, he's really starting to show his value. And he's doing it by playing hard, hitting, playing a two way game, etc. His offense will come too.


Last edited by Larry44: 01-27-2012 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Excessive snarkiness
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01-27-2012, 04:11 PM
  #91
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Why can't they both become #1 centers?
Well unless we trade 1 of them + Giroux that's impossible.

Larry44 -> I weren't the one who raised the question of Couturier vs. Schenn. I just thought that even though Couturier might become better I guess that Schenn will me more suitable for a classic #2 role and Couturier for a #3 role. But like previously (when we've had Richards, Carter, Briere and Giroux to distribute) I think we'll go with 3 scoring lines even in the future, but with one with a little more shut down responisbilities.

And I'm basing my view on Schenn/Couturier on what I've seen on the ice. It's an opinion. One of few on these boards that aren't based off of stats. Based on what I've seen, compared to every other talent I've ever seen, I don't think Couturier will be a scoring machine. That doesn't mean I don't think he'll be good, he already is.

I just think it's a better chance that Couturier will become a top 10 center in this league than him becoming a top 10 in points center in this league, even though the former is much, much more hard to accomplish.

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01-27-2012, 04:20 PM
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And well, scoring in points in junior leagues is... Well, it's not a "reasonable" level, because the hockey in those leagues are very low quality. I mean, those teams would get slaughtered by teams in the Swedish 3rd league. That's why I didn't count it and also added the words "of reasonable quality" so no-one would point that out.

I think it's strange that I have to argue that Couturier won't become a top 10 scoring center in the league (and thereby the world) as if I said something completely outrageous. It's still way more probable that he doesn't become one than that he does.

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01-27-2012, 04:21 PM
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Flu, what you are missing about Couturier is that he actually does have GREAT all around skill and can be flashy/dangly if he wants to be, but right now he is more focused on making safe smart players instead of going all out for offense.

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01-27-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
Well unless we trade 1 of them + Giroux that's impossible.

Larry44 -> I weren't the one who raised the question of Couturier vs. Schenn. I just thought that even though Couturier might become better I guess that Schenn will me more suitable for a classic #2 role and Couturier for a #3 role. But like previously (when we've had Richards, Carter, Briere and Giroux to distribute) I think we'll go with 3 scoring lines even in the future, but with one with a little more shut down responisbilities.

And I'm basing my view on Schenn/Couturier on what I've seen on the ice. It's an opinion. One of few on these boards that aren't based off of stats. Based on what I've seen, compared to every other talent I've ever seen, I don't think Couturier will be a scoring machine. That doesn't mean I don't think he'll be good, he already is.

I just think it's a better chance that Couturier will become a top 10 center in this league than him becoming a top 10 in points center in this league, even though the former is much, much more hard to accomplish.
Fair enough, sorry for being so snarky in my previous post.

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01-27-2012, 04:38 PM
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Yes well I can't base my opinion on more than I've seen and stats as a lending hand, but I still don't see him having the offensive potential to be a top 10 scoring center in this league.

If we compare who the top 10 scoring centers in this league is right now...

Henrik Sedin, Evgeni Malkin, Steve Stamkos, Nicklas Bäckström, Anze Kopitar(?), Getzlaf (? have to put a question mark for his current season but the last few years, sure), Datsyuk, Spezza, Claude Giroux and Sidney Crosby. For instance, you might add Brad Richards, Eric Staal, Joe Thornton, Zetterberg, Toews, Patrick Kane (if he counts as a center, been playing both) and a few more, it's hard to say who's the 10 best, how much you should just look at this current season and who you should look at because they've scored a lot of points several seasons in a row.

However you count, all top 10 scoring centers except Giroux and Kopitar (and I think they will, soon) has made 90+ points seasons, most of them multiple, a lot of them has made 100+ points seasons, some 120+.

I just don't think Couturier will produce that kind of offense, but I fully respect those who think he will, but I really don't understand why that's thought of as such an outrageous accusation, when it's just an opinion, and a pretty probable one at that. I'm not saying I think he'll become a bust or anything...

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01-27-2012, 07:19 PM
  #96
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Yes well I can't base my opinion on more than I've seen and stats as a lending hand, but I still don't see him having the offensive potential to be a top 10 scoring center in this league.

If we compare who the top 10 scoring centers in this league is right now...

Henrik Sedin, Evgeni Malkin, Steve Stamkos, Nicklas Bäckström, Anze Kopitar(?), Getzlaf (? have to put a question mark for his current season but the last few years, sure), Datsyuk, Spezza, Claude Giroux and Sidney Crosby. For instance, you might add Brad Richards, Eric Staal, Joe Thornton, Zetterberg, Toews, Patrick Kane (if he counts as a center, been playing both) and a few more, it's hard to say who's the 10 best, how much you should just look at this current season and who you should look at because they've scored a lot of points several seasons in a row.

However you count, all top 10 scoring centers except Giroux and Kopitar (and I think they will, soon) has made 90+ points seasons, most of them multiple, a lot of them has made 100+ points seasons, some 120+.

I just don't think Couturier will produce that kind of offense, but I fully respect those who think he will, but I really don't understand why that's thought of as such an outrageous accusation, when it's just an opinion, and a pretty probable one at that. I'm not saying I think he'll become a bust or anything...
The odds of any prospect in the NHL becoming a top-10 scoring forward is highly unlikely.

Up until last year, nobody gave Giroux a fighting chance of becoming a top-10 scoring forward. He is now though.

The odds of Yakupov becoming a top-10 scoring forward is very unlikely.

I do not understand how you can say something so definitively like Couturier does not have the skills to be a number one center.

He led the Q in scoring at 16. He is putting up outstanding numbers on our fourth line playing with Rinaldo, Zolnercyk and Shelly. He clearly has skills. He has the most patience of any draft prospect I've seen in recent years. His vision is also incredible. And he is only going to get more amazing once he puts some weight on.

Eric Staal came into the league at 6'3 185, he is now 205 lbs.
Ryan Getzlaf came into the league at 205 lbs, he is now 221 lbs.
Jonathan Toews was drafted @ 195 soaking wet and is now 208 lbs.

Sean Couturier is currently 6'4 197. He is a rail. He can easily bulk up to 210-215 this offseason. And when he does, he will be even more dominant out there. He is already hard to handle in the corners and hard to get off the puck. Just wait until you see him next year.

And just as a side note, Couturier was selected to participate in the breakaway challenge for team Alfredsson at the all star game. He must have some pretty nifty moves and dekes to have earned that honor. It will be interesting to hear your opinion of his skill level and creativity after watching that.

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01-27-2012, 08:51 PM
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I feel for Schenn because when he was dealt here, unrealistic expectations were placed on his shoulders. I think Philadelphia management needed to shield him a bit from the pressure and they failed. If Holmgren and company would have left Schenn in Adirondack for the first 30 to 35 games, that would have quelled some of the pressure on Schenn. With that being said, now that Schenn seems to have settled in a bit, you can see that he's going to be a very good player for years to come. He seems to have that "it" factor. He might not ever be as good as Richards was defensively, but I'm willing to bet Schenn is going to be better offensively.

As for Couturier, the kid just oozes skill. I can't see how anyone can't see that. Look at his poise out there and how he handles the puck. His shot is already NHL caliber. On top of that, when he plays with skill players, you can see his skill shine through. He's currently 19 years old and he's already got the savvy of a veteran. I'll call it right now - in four years, he's a 100 point player in the league that plays exceptional defense. Othes have pointed out that his game is very similar to Pavel Datsyuk's and I can see it more and more every game that Couturier plays.

The next five years in Philadelphia are going to be really fun to watch once Schenn and Couturier hit their stride.

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01-28-2012, 05:00 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I feel for Schenn because when he was dealt here, unrealistic expectations were placed on his shoulders. I think Philadelphia management needed to shield him a bit from the pressure and they failed. If Holmgren and company would have left Schenn in Adirondack for the first 30 to 35 games, that would have quelled some of the pressure on Schenn. With that being said, now that Schenn seems to have settled in a bit, you can see that he's going to be a very good player for years to come. He seems to have that "it" factor. He might not ever be as good as Richards was defensively, but I'm willing to bet Schenn is going to be better offensively.

As for Couturier, the kid just oozes skill. I can't see how anyone can't see that. Look at his poise out there and how he handles the puck. His shot is already NHL caliber. On top of that, when he plays with skill players, you can see his skill shine through. He's currently 19 years old and he's already got the savvy of a veteran. I'll call it right now - in four years, he's a 100 point player in the league that plays exceptional defense. Othes have pointed out that his game is very similar to Pavel Datsyuk's and I can see it more and more every game that Couturier plays.

The next five years in Philadelphia are going to be really fun to watch once Schenn and Couturier hit their stride.
Couturier is literally the best defensively aware forward as a rookie I have ever seen, I cannot think of anyone in the last ten year who has came in and been this mature and poised, Staal and O'Reilly were impressive, but Couturier has been better than both of them so far this year. He seems to have everything going for him, especially when you consider the offensive upside, I would be very surprised if he doesn't end up hitting about 70 points on a regular basis, with 90 not out of his reach. Only him and Crosby in the last 25 years led the Q in scoring as a 16 year old, and if it were not for him missing games with mono he would have led two years in a row, the only other person to do that in 25 years... Crosby. Couturier can be elite at both ends of the ice.

-Big
-Strong on boards
-Great stick-work
-Great awareness
-(Surprisingly) good first step
-Hard working
-Faceoffs (yes he has sub 50, but at junior was a beast, and only Desjardins, Henrique, Macenauer, and Schenn have better % as rookies, only Henrique has taken more)
-Great shot
-Good passing

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01-28-2012, 05:08 AM
  #99
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I love how people can make judgements on how a player is limited in what he can become, when he has excelled for 40 games in his rookie season.

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01-29-2012, 11:54 AM
  #100
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Couturier showed great skill yesterday

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