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Old
01-27-2012, 08:55 AM
  #26
llamateizer
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I love how Gomez Disappeared

I have big doubts about Doan coming to MTL

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01-27-2012, 08:56 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
I love how Gomez Disappeared

I have big doubts about Doan coming to MTL
Burried and there are rumors that the new CBA will include a penaltyless buyout window. Odds are that Gomez will in fact disappear.

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01-27-2012, 08:58 AM
  #28
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Burried and there are rumors that the new CBA will include a penaltyless buyout window. Odds are that Gomez will in fact disappear.
Exactly, IMO it is as clear as day, they simply don't have room for him, he is forced to play the wing. But I don't think the Habs will send him to the AHL, even he isn't moved, I see him going to Europe to play.

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01-27-2012, 09:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
You take away Cammalleri. You add in a *hopefully* healthy Gionta. Bourque brings so much to that line.

Add a good third line winger (or hope Leblanc plays well there).

Desharnais, Eller, and Pacioretty will gained more experience (Desharnais could potentially hit 70 points next year, IMO).

Same goes for Emelin and Diaz.

A healthy Markov (look how bad the Wings looked with Lidstrom - it looked like they were a terrible team) will improve our team, even if he's not quite at the same level as before.

Kaberle will produce more with Markov on the PP, IMO.

Bourque will fit in fully (and I think his "lack of effort" won't exist much in Montreal because he's not going to let himself get attacked constantly).

Price will have a better year with a defense with more experience and Markov back.
Ah, the good old perfect scenario! No injuries and everyone improves! If that holds true, we are competing for 6th-8th. And that is fine really. After the next season, we can get rid of Gionta and Kaberle's enormous salaries without having that many key RFAs to sign. That is when we should plan to be competitive.

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01-27-2012, 09:10 AM
  #30
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It is likely that we will be sellers as the season comes to an end. I do not believe that we are as bad as our record. We have been hampered by injuries and bad management/coaching this season. Our guys have started to turn the corner and we can identify the kind of team we want going forward. That being said, I think management has realized that we are heading down the wrong path.

I am going to make some unpopular proposals. I love Carey Price and Tomas Plekanec. Up until about a week ago they were untouchable to me. But they are also two of the most attractive players we have. I do not believe we can win a cup with Plekanec as our number one centre. Perhaps as a #2 we could, but then how do we get that top line centre? Only chance is through the draft or a trade involving Price. I think Price could actually yield an overpayment by a team with long standing goaltending issues. Columbus, NYI, Edmonton, and TB....what a coincidence, they are all in the running for a lottery pick with us.

Plan Before Trade Deadline:
1) Trade Carey Price to Columbus for 1st overall + prospect (Jenner?).
2) Trade Tomas Plekanec, plus, plus for big scoring centre a la Staal/Getzlaf.
3) Trade Kostitsyn for late 1st or 2nd pick.
4) Trade Moen for a late 2nd or 3rd.
5) Trade Gill for a 3rd or 4th.
6) Trade Kaberle for best possible pick.
7) Trade Campoli for best possible pick.
8) Trade or Bury Gomez (find a way).
9) Tank Tank Tank.

Plan at the Draft:
Pick 1 (from Price trade) - Yakupov, Grigorenko
Pick 5 (our pick) - Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Dumba, Murray
Pick 28 (from Kostitsyn trade) - Malcolm Subban
Pick 35 (our pick)
Pick 60 (from Moen trade)
Pick 65 (our pick)
Pick 85 (from Gill trade)
Pick 87 (from Kaberle trade)
Pick 95 (our pick)
Pick 155 (our pick)

Plan in the Offseason:
1) Sign a solid UFA goalie while Malcolm Subban develops (2 to 4 years) like Vokoun, Harding, Gustaffson, etc.
2) Sign a top tier defenseman like Suter. If we can't get him then make sure we get someone with some grit to their game like Tim Gleason.
3) Try to get Kostitsyn back as a UFA or go for a similar player like Ruutu. If this fails, use Leblanc, Palushaj or our 5th overall pick on the wing.
4) Sign a centre who isn't afraid to throw down for the 4th line and can win faceoffs, like Gaustad.
5) Sign Subban to a long term (yet tradeable) contract.
6) Re-sign RFAs Subban, Emelin, Diaz, Blunden, White, Pacioretty.

2012-13 Lineup:

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Nail Yakupov ($1.200m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Rene Bourque ($3.333m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.200m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Ryan White ($0.625m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.600m) / Mike Blunden ($0.615m)
Andreas Engqvist ($0.900m) / Aaron Palushaj ($0.883m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Ryan Suter ($6.750m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($3.750m)
Alexei Emelin ($1.200m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.300m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS
Josh Harding ($3.750m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,481,666; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $818,334

Plan During Season:
Let Desharnais continue to increase his value and then trade him. Let Leblanc take over as #3 centre and move Eller to #2 centre. Or possibly let one of our top picks take over one of those spots.

All of a sudden we are young, gritty and talented. We definitely have a downgrade at goalie but I think we can overcome this with our lineup and we have always been good at finding goaltenders.

I know we all fall in love with players and call them untouchables, but it's time to start building this team for the current NHL. It is a game where youth, speed and size are paramount.

Can we make all the deals that I have suggested? Probably not...
Have I over valued the return on some guys? Probably...
Is it possible that this doesn't work and we are in the same spot next season? Maybe...
but if that is the case then we sell again next year. I am willing to miss the playoffs again next year if it means we can turn this franchise around in the long run. I can't see us missing the playoffs in 2013-14 if we do something like this and that season we will have some older players with expiring contracts and prospects coming into their peaks and ready to break into the league. 2013-14 is the season that we become a team to contend with for a long time.

Now......who to hire to orchestrate this thing?

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Old
01-27-2012, 09:10 AM
  #31
habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Ah, the good old perfect scenario! No injuries and everyone improves! If that holds true, we are competing for 6th-8th. And that is fine really. After the next season, we can get rid of Gionta and Kaberle's enormous salaries without having that many key RFAs to sign. That is when we should plan to be competitive.
But we have more depth to adjust to those injuries.

Bourque (25 goals)-Plek(20 goals/55-65 points)-Gionta(25-30 goals)
Patches(25-30 goals)-DD(15 goals 55-65 points)-Cole(25-30 goals(
Ruutu-(20-goals)-Eller(15 goals-40 points)-AK(20 goals)

In our top 9, you have 7 guys that should score about 20+ goals each.

injuries will happen but you have guys that are more than capable to fill into a top 6 role, and you have someone like Leblanc that fill on really well on the 3rd line.

And on D, I think it depends on Markov, but if he is health and somewhat back to form, even just as a top 20 D, we will have two really good lines that can play against anyone (Markov-Gorges) (Gleason-Subban), and than you have Kaberle on the third pairing playing weaker match ups and putting up really good offensive numbers.

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01-27-2012, 09:15 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Something wrong with that center line...

Seriously, I think its time to part ways with Gomez and if we can give Gomez's contract/cap hit to Weber, we should be really really good next season. And if we can get rid of Karbele aswell and use the money to sign another top 9 winger it would be great.
he's an elite fourth line center, it would be difficult to part ways with him.

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01-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
But we have more depth to adjust to those injuries.

Bourque (25 goals)-Plek(20 goals/55-65 points)-Gionta(25-30 goals)
Patches(25-30 goals)-DD(15 goals 55-65 points)-Cole(25-30 goals(
Ruutu-(20-goals)-Eller(15 goals-40 points)-AK(20 goals)

In our top 9, you have 7 guys that should score about 20+ goals each.

injuries will happen but you have guys that are more than capable to fill into a top 6 role, and you have someone like Leblanc that fill on really well on the 3rd line.

And on D, I think it depends on Markov, but if he is health and somewhat back to form, even just as a top 20 D, we will have two really good lines that can play against anyone (Markov-Gorges) (Gleason-Subban), and than you have Kaberle on the third pairing playing weaker match ups and putting up really good offensive numbers.
Again, it is way too optimistic to bank on 7(!!!) 20 goal scorers. Our forward depth is pretty awful with Leblanc and Engqvist as the top guys. The defense is even worst. At this point, I prefer to not include Markov in any real lineup. We can only assume that he is injured until he proves otherwise. Even if he starts the season, we can't really expect more than 20 games out of him.

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01-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Leblanc should spend at least another year in Hamilton.
If not he should be playing 15-17 minutes on the top 3 lines.

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01-27-2012, 09:47 AM
  #35
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Montreal needs an elite top line centre who has size. IMO, I believe that one of Jeff Carter (although I don't like his contract length he'd be the easiest to acquire), Eric Staal, or Ryan Getzlaf.

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01-27-2012, 10:04 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Again, it is way too optimistic to bank on 7(!!!) 20 goal scorers. Our forward depth is pretty awful with Leblanc and Engqvist as the top guys. The defense is even worst. At this point, I prefer to not include Markov in any real lineup. We can only assume that he is injured until he proves otherwise. Even if he starts the season, we can't really expect more than 20 games out of him.
I don't think those are optimistic numbers, I think those are realistic number for each guy. Whether they are health is another questions, but I think every line you come up with, you expect the guys to be heath for the most part, unless it is a player with a injury history, and I think Markov is the only guy that goes into that category.

In regards to depth. You would have a 3rd line of Ruutu-Eller-AK, how do you say there isn't depth on the forward group. AK and Ruutu are guys that could easily be playing in a top 6 role.

In regards to Markov, that is a question mark, but I'm hoping that with the 20-25 games that he is expected to play, at least we can see where he is. And if in those games it shows that he isn't able to play again, we can simply use that 5.75M salary into another D-men and have Markov on the LTIR.

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01-27-2012, 10:10 AM
  #37
subbang76
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Wasn't Leblanc drafted a centre?

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01-27-2012, 10:11 AM
  #38
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Pacioretty Desharnais Cole
Ruttu Getzlaf Bourque
Moen Pleckanec Gionta
Moore White Blunden


Subban Georges
Emelin Shea Webber
Markov Diaz
B. Jackman

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01-27-2012, 10:12 AM
  #39
habs03
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Originally Posted by subbang76 View Post
Wasn't Leblanc drafted a centre?
ya, but is has been moved to RW, it happens quiet often, off the top of my head, Higgins was a C, moved to LW, Kessel was Centre, moved to RW.

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01-27-2012, 10:15 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike The Wall View Post
Pacioretty Desharnais Cole
Ruttu Getzlaf Bourque
Moen Pleckanec Gionta
Moore White Blunden


Subban Georges
Emelin Shea Webber
Markov Diaz
B. Jackman
In order for Montreal to do this, they'd first need to waive, trade, or buyout Gomer. And how do you plan to acquire Getzlaf?

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01-27-2012, 10:19 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by subbang76 View Post
In order for Montreal to do this, they'd first need to waive, trade, or buyout Gomer. And how do you plan to acquire Getzlaf?


I have no problem burying Gomez in the east coast league if I have to. For Getzlaf I would see if I can offer the Ducks a package of players and picks to get him.

Also this is all in what I like to see so this is not critical for you to scrtunize this with a magnifying glass

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01-27-2012, 10:25 AM
  #42
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LW ------- C ------- RW
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Kostitsyn - Eller - Leblanc
Prust - Konopka - White
Blunden

D
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - Diaz
Vandermeer - Weber

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01-27-2012, 10:26 AM
  #43
habs03
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Originally Posted by Mike The Wall View Post
I have no problem burying Gomez in the east coast league if I have to. For Getzlaf I would see if I can offer the Ducks a package of players and picks to get him.

Also this is all in what I like to see so this is not critical for you to scrtunize this with a magnifying glass
We gotta be realistic here tho. you have Getzlaf and Shea Webber in your line up, and you seem to have acquired them without giving up Subban/Patches/Eller/Price etc, these are the guys the Pred and Ducks would ask in return as opposed to prospect and Picks because both teams are not looking to rebuild.

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01-27-2012, 10:28 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
LW ------- C ------- RW
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Kostitsyn - Eller - Leblanc
Prust - Konopka - White
Blunden

D
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - Diaz
Vandermeer - Weber
I think with that lineup, we would have around 9-10M in cap cap to play with aswell..

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01-27-2012, 10:37 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Leblanc should spend at least another year in Hamilton.
Doubt he'll spend another full year but I agree that he should start the year in Hamilton next year barring an absolutely incredible camp.

I still think half way he might be ready. He's looked great thus far.

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01-27-2012, 12:05 PM
  #46
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Quote:
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.250m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($3.750m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Louis Leblanc ($1.170m) / Jeff Halpern ($0.825m) / Rene Bourque ($3.333m)
Ryan White ($0.650m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Ryan Suter ($5.250m) / P.K. Subban ($3.000m)
Alexei Emelin ($1.250m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.350m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($4.750m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $66,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,203,333; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $96,667

Whats ur team?
Wow, Habs fans at their best, putting on a soft lineup.

First, you will never have a team where Rene Bourque will be playing on the fourth line.
Second, this line-up is way too much of a puss one. No one on a hockey roster should be under 6ft and 200lbs, unless it is a generational talent or a very gritty/tough player (Franky Bouillon, for example). Otherwise, your team gets beaten up (as always, against the Bruins and the Flyers) and are afraid of the corners (tell PK Subban about that).

Here's a real lineup:

Milan Lucic (4,083M) - Mike Richards (5,570M) - Chris Stewart (2,875M)
Ryane Clowe (3,625M) - Brandon Dubinsky (4,200M) - Nathan Horton (4,000M)
Chris Neil (2,000M) - David Desharnais (0,850M) - Wayne Simmonds (1,750M)
Kyle Clifford (0,870M) - Zenon Konopka (0,800M) - Shawn Thornton (0,812M)
(Michael Blunden (0,615M), Ryan White (0,625M)

Zdeno Chara (6,916M) - Josh Gorges (3,900M)
Douglas Murray (2,500M) - P.K. Subban (0,875M)
Jim Vandermeer (1,000M) - Stéphane Robidas (3,300M)
Deryk Engelland (0,566M), Raphaël Diaz (0,900M)

Carey Price (2,750M)
Peter Budaj (1,200M)

Cap payroll $55,214,167
Cap space $9,085,833

After that, you engage a bench-clearing brawl in Boston and you beat the **** out of them.


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Old
01-27-2012, 12:45 PM
  #47
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Pacioretty - Carter - Hemsky
Ruutu - Plekanec - Cole
Bourque - Eller - Kostitsyn
Prust - White - Moen


Markov - Subban
Kaberle - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz

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01-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #48
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Why do you guys put Markov in the line-up? He won't and will never be back. His carrer is over, get used to it.

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01-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Plan Before Trade Deadline:
1) Trade Carey Price to Columbus for 1st overall + prospect (Jenner?).
2) Trade Tomas Plekanec, plus, plus for big scoring centre a la Staal/Getzlaf.
3) Trade Kostitsyn for late 1st or 2nd pick.
4) Trade Moen for a late 2nd or 3rd.
5) Trade Gill for a 3rd or 4th.
6) Trade Kaberle for best possible pick.
7) Trade Campoli for best possible pick.
8) Trade or Bury Gomez (find a way).
9) Tank Tank Tank.
Nooooo. We'll be the Oilers if we do that lol

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01-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #50
SeriousHabs
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Originally Posted by landskronala View Post
Pacioretty - Carter - Hemsky
Ruutu - Plekanec - Cole
Bourque - Eller - Kostitsyn
Prust - White - Moen


Markov - Subban
Kaberle - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz
No Desharnais = extreme fail.

He is signed for 750k next season. He is a lock. Best value/$ on the Habs and it is not even close.

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