It's also ironic that he says he loves guys like "DD (scouted by Timmins), Cole, Patches (scouted by Timmins) and Subban (scouted by...you guessed it, Timmins!)
The french media only inform themselves about les gars de chez nous. They're completely uninformed and unqualified to pass judgment on prospects. Anybody who listens to them is doing themselves a disservice.
But with all due respect to Timmins, he totally shat the bed in the 2006 draft by picking David Fisher (20th) over Claude Giroux (22nd). This is a guy who was playing in our own backyard and yet Timmins opted for a high school kid who'd never played against anybody with talent. Yes, Timmins has chosen well but man oh man, the Habs would be a totally different team if he did his job better that yr. So in that respect, the french media would have a strong rebuttle to Matthias Brunet's article.
As an English speaker whose French listening comprehension is basic, having Patofqc on this board is useful; it's like having our own shortened version of L'antichambre around.
On topic, really the Fischer pick is the only thing I can fault Timmins for. Nobody knew how good Giroux would be, but for me picking a high school kid who isn't a can't miss prospect with a first round draft pick is a cardinal sin. Kostitsyn was not a bust, he was an obvious pick whose hockey IQ held him back from living up to what he could have been.
As an English speaker whose French listening comprehension is basic, having Patofqc on this board is useful; it's like having our own shortened version of L'antichambre around.
That's not true. L'antichambre is not half as bad as many of you guys make it out to be. It's people like Patofqc who distort what's said on those shows.
L'antichmabre has a wide variety of commentaries. They're not all xenophobic or provincial comments.
That's not true. L'antichambre is not half as bad as many of you guys make it out to be. It's people like Patofqc who distort what's said on those shows.
L'antichmabre has a wide variety of commentaries. They're not all xenophobic or provincial comments.
there are some that have some sense to them, but the moderator of the day tries to steer them in that direction because they know that's what gets the ratings in Quebec.
But Timmins should be kept on. And Subban left the F alone. The kid has enough to deal with...not to mention the coaching staff who are trying to steer this kid straight
As an English speaker whose French listening comprehension is basic, having Patofqc on this board is useful; it's like having our own shortened version of L'antichambre around.
On topic, really the Fischer pick is the only thing I can fault Timmins for. Nobody knew how good Giroux would be, but for me picking a high school kid who isn't a can't miss prospect with a first round draft pick is a cardinal sin. Kostitsyn was not a bust, he was an obvious pick whose hockey IQ held him back from living up to what he could have been.
also didn't we trade that compensatory pick for wiz?
That's not true. L'antichambre is not half as bad as many of you guys make it out to be. It's people like Patofqc who distort what's said on those shows.
L'antichmabre has a wide variety of commentaries. They're not all xenophobic or provincial comments.
In all seriousness I know, the show features a lot of hockey minds I respect. If my French was better I'd watch regularly. It's a few outspoken names that encourage people like Patofqc sadly.
Not that the Anglo media is much better mind you, less nationality obsession but guys like Tony Marinaro and the Gazette crew are willing to distort things for sensationalism. I do love the new radio crew except Marinaro though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHill Seeker
also didn't we trade that compensatory pick for wiz?
Yes, we made good use of a bad situation. For all the talk about the Sergei Kostitsyns and Ribeiros we wasted, the Habs do have some good asset management moments too.
Yes, we made good use of a bad situation. For all the talk about the Sergei Kostitsyns and Ribeiros we wasted, the Habs do have some good asset management moments too.
a broken watch is right twice a day.
Unfortunately for us, management has made many many more poor choices. (not a knock on Timmins, moreso on the Ghost)
But with all due respect to Timmins, he totally shat the bed in the 2006 draft by picking David Fisher (20th) over Claude Giroux (22nd). This is a guy who was playing in our own backyard and yet Timmins opted for a high school kid who'd never played against anybody with talent. Yes, Timmins has chosen well but man oh man, the Habs would be a totally different team if he did his job better that yr. So in that respect, the french media would have a strong rebuttle to Matthias Brunet's article.
He shat in the bed on that one. It's a huge mistake. But look at the draft record of the 29 other teams, they've made the same type of mistakes (only more often). And some teams are completely hopeless selecting in the latter rounds.
What makes this more upsetting is we missed a future star from the Q. And the usual suspects get their panties in a bunch everytime we skip the next best Q prospect at the draft for someone else. Let's trade the Habs 1st pick for the next pick (skater) from the Q. We would get lots of happy faces on draft day but not much of a team:
03- AKost - Steve Bernier (adv-Habs)
04- Chipchura- Bruce Graham (adv-Habs)
05- Carey Price-Luc Bourdon
06- David Fischer - Claude Giroux (big mistake)
07- Ryan Mcdonagh - Angelo Esposito (adv- Habs)
08- Danny Kristo - Danick Paquette
09- Louis Leblanc - Jordan Caron
10- Jarred Tinordi- Peter Straka
11- Nathan Beauleu
But with all due respect to Timmins, he totally shat the bed in the 2006 draft by picking David Fisher (20th) over Claude Giroux (22nd). This is a guy who was playing in our own backyard and yet Timmins opted for a high school kid who'd never played against anybody with talent. Yes, Timmins has chosen well but man oh man, the Habs would be a totally different team if he did his job better that yr. So in that respect, the french media would have a strong rebuttle to Matthias Brunet's article.
Yup. He missed on Giroux. He also missed on (in the order in which they were drafted) Neuvirth, Kulemin, Enroth, Lucic (twice), Marchand (twice), Clutterbuck (twice), Reimer (thrice) and Stalberg (a bunch of times). And twenty other guys passed on Giroux too, so there's that.
Drafting is always a roll of the dice. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. In defense of Timmins, please also note that Giroux was undrafted in the Q (signed with Gatineau as a free agent) and was not a standout that season (he was not in top ten for goals, assists or points). He led his team in scoring, but Gatineau was very weak that year (only one other NHL'er - Krejci). He made the rookie team, but that's not always a sign of greatness (the centre for that rookie team - Angelo Esposito).
It was easy to pass him up. Harder to say why they picked Fischer, but skipping Giroux in only bad in hindsight.
He shat in the bed on that one. It's a huge mistake. But look at the draft record of the 29 other teams, they've made the same type of mistakes (only more often). And some teams are completely hopeless selecting in the latter rounds.
What makes this more upsetting is we missed a future star from the Q. And the usual suspects get their panties in a bunch everytime we skip the next best Q prospect at the draft for someone else. Let's trade the Habs 1st pick for the next pick (skate) from the Q. We would get lots of happy faces on draft day but not much of a team:
03- AKost - Steve Bernier (adv-Habs)
04- Chipchura- Bruce Graham (adv-Habs)
05- Carey Price-Luc Bourdon
06- David Fischer - Claude Giroux (big mistake)
07- Ryan Mcdonagh - Angelo Esposito (adv- Habs)
08- Danny Kristo - Danick Paquette
09- Louis Leblanc - Jordan Caron
10- Jarred Tinordi- Peter Straka
11- Nathan Beauleu
the only one I see there where the HABS got hosed was the Fisher pick. And he's the example I go to for NOT picking high school players in the 1st 4 rounds. Fisher in the 4th, no problem, in the 1st....big problem.
And everyone goes on and on about Giroux, because we "missed out" on him. But a small centre wasn't exactly a need for us either. If they weren't after the next francophone (Giroux is from ONTARIO) they would be talking about missing out on Berglund instead, a 6'4'' 215lb top 6 centre, that's what we've been missing, not a 5'11 178lb centre just cause he speaks french.
But with all due respect to Timmins, he totally shat the bed in the 2006 draft by picking David Fisher (20th) over Claude Giroux (22nd). This is a guy who was playing in our own backyard and yet Timmins opted for a high school kid who'd never played against anybody with talent. Yes, Timmins has chosen well but man oh man, the Habs would be a totally different team if he did his job better that yr. So in that respect, the french media would have a strong rebuttle to Matthias Brunet's article.
What does "playing in your backyard" have to do with anything? If you limit yourself with drafting guys that are close to you, you won't be a very good head scout.
You're out of your mind if you think Fischer didn't "play against anybody with talent" Minnesota high school is a high level of competition. I think Bjugstad and Nelson were playing there and both were 2010 1st rounders, both look like very good prospects. Fischer's development had nothing to do with that, he also played in the very strong WCHA which has developped a ton of NHL talent.
There is no exact formula for always drafting the best player, if there was scouts would never draft busts...and the best scouts draft non NHLers 65% of the time.
the only one I see there where the HABS got hosed was the Fisher pick. And he's the example I go to for NOT picking high school players in the 1st 4 rounds. Fisher in the 4th, no problem, in the 1st....big problem.
And everyone goes on and on about Giroux, because we "missed out" on him. But a small centre wasn't exactly a need for us either. If they weren't after the next francophone (Giroux is from ONTARIO) they would be talking about missing out on Berglund instead, a 6'4'' 215lb top 6 centre, that's what we've been missing, not a 5'22 178lb centre just cause he speaks french.
Fischer's never gonna see an NHL rink. He was on the no draft list of other teams because of his attitude. We end up with nothing. That one hurts... But every single NHL scouting departments will make catastrophic mistakes... Timmins has limited them.
But with all due respect to Timmins, he totally shat the bed in the 2006 draft by picking David Fisher (20th) over Claude Giroux (22nd). This is a guy who was playing in our own backyard and yet Timmins opted for a high school kid who'd never played against anybody with talent. Yes, Timmins has chosen well but man oh man, the Habs would be a totally different team if he did his job better that yr. So in that respect, the french media would have a strong rebuttle to Matthias Brunet's article.
I don't think it's a strong rebuttal. It's rhetoric, cherrypicking and totally unfair. Giroux was a small center who was passed on by 25 other clubs. You can cherrypick stars from later on in pretty much every draft. Your odds of actually finding that player though are not very good.
Yes, it was a bad pick. Yes, we could've gotten Giroux but the heat that Timmins takes on this is totally unjustified. It's way over the top. And what's really brutal is that this guy has done a great job for us.
the only one I see there where the HABS got hosed was the Fisher pick. And he's the example I go to for NOT picking high school players in the 1st 4 rounds. Fisher in the 4th, no problem, in the 1st....big problem.
And everyone goes on and on about Giroux, because we "missed out" on him. But a small centre wasn't exactly a need for us either. If they weren't after the next francophone (Giroux is from ONTARIO) they would be talking about missing out on Berglund instead, a 6'4'' 215lb top 6 centre, that's what we've been missing, not a 5'11 178lb centre just cause he speaks french.
Bjugstad IS a high scholl pick as was Nelson same year.
Fischer's never gonna see an NHL rink. He was on the no draft list of other teams because of his attitude. That one hurts... But every single NHL scouting departments will make catastrophic mistakes... Timmins has limited them.
I agree, he could have gotten Sanguinetti (who was selected right after him, and that would have been fine).
Timmins hits way more than he misses. The players he picks have a better than 50% chance of playing in the NHL. Not many head scouts can say that
If they weren't after the next francophone (Giroux is from ONTARIO) they would be talking about missing out on Berglund instead, a 6'4'' 215lb top 6 centre, that's what we've been missing, not a 5'11 178lb centre just cause he speaks french.
You would seriously take Berglund over Giroux just because of his size???? Seriously??
2011-12 St. Louis 49 12 8 20
2011-12 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 44 18 37 55
That obsession for size is ridiculous. That remind me when the Habs used almost all their 1st rounders on talentless big guys in the 90's. In fact the only good first rounder have been Saku Koivu... the only small one.
On the main topic; Timmins have quite a good record so far!
That's not true. L'antichambre is not half as bad as many of you guys make it out to be. It's people like Patofqc who distort what's said on those shows.
L'antichmabre has a wide variety of commentaries. They're not all xenophobic or provincial comments.
Minutes after the Cammalleri-Bourque trade, the entire AntiChambre crew was still waiting on their production team to give them info on Bourque, a player who was in his 5ht-6th season on a Canadian team.
Bjugstad IS a high scholl pick as was Nelson same year.
I would not pick a High Schooler in the 1st round that hasn't played against significant competition. Bjugstad played in the U17 the year he was picked and demonstrated some skill against much more highly toughted (at that point) players, that brought his stock up. Nelson was the 30th pick that year, and I would have had reservations on picking him.
I am of the camp that feels that US High school is not a place to go and pick your top prspects.
But that's why I'm in the Navy and not a pro scout.
You would seriously take Berglund over Giroux just because of his size???? Seriously??
2011-12 St. Louis 49 12 8 20
2011-12 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 44 18 37 55
That obsession for size is ridiculous. That remind me when the Habs used almost all their 1st rounders on talentless big guys in the 90's. In fact the only good first rounder have been Saku Koivu... the only small one.
On the main topic; Timmins have quite a good record so far!
Timmins is the man, I would keep him without a doubt. Love the job he's done so far.
But in 2006, yes I would have. We can all play the hindsight is 20/20 game. But in 2006 our main need was a BIG talented centreman. Berglund was rated about equal to Giroux by many scouts. Had I been the one to have final say, I would have picked Berglund over Giroux with the thought that he would fit better for our needs.
Minutes after the Cammalleri-Bourque trade, the entire AntiChambre crew was still waiting on their production team to give them info on Bourque, a player who was in his 5ht-6th season on a Canadian team.
I saw that episode and that's not how I remember it. They were waiting for the actual trade not info on Bourque. Once Bourques was confirmed, a couple of the members knew about him.
I would not pick a High Schooler in the 1st round that hasn't played against significant competition. Bjugstad played in the U17 the year he was picked and demonstrated some skill against much more highly toughted (at that point) players, that brought his stock up. Nelson was the 30th pick that year, and I would have had reservations on picking him.
I am of the camp that feels that US High school is not a place to go and pick your top prspects.
But that's why I'm in the Navy and not a pro scout.
US high school teams play in big tournaments against other states plus the players are at U16 U17 and U18 regional camps against other draft eligibles. Much like QMJHL kids in the Maritimes have the U15 and U16 Team Atlantic tourney.
Fisched had a longer track record as a top ranked player than Giroux who was not even drafted at 15 or 16 by the OHL.
