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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III

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Old
01-26-2012, 04:30 PM
  #301
Buddy The Elf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Anyone can be traded or bought out sent down ETC; I don't know why anyone is worried about that.

There will always be a team that has to make salary in the cap era as well.(Florida)

10 years from now it will be some other team.
To make matters better, he gets paid like $3m, $2m and $2m the final 3 years of his contract. The Kings would be paying a Parise-esque player $7m+ for 7 years too so in reality, Carter's contract is quite a bargain and very managable after 7 years (34 y/o).

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01-26-2012, 05:38 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Gagne (even though he is out) pretty much said he woudln't have signed here; the only reason was Williams/Richards.
When did he say this?

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01-26-2012, 06:02 PM
  #303
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Interesting take John Buccigross had on Carter when ranking his top 100 current players in the NHL:

Quote:
Jeff Carter: Columbus overpaid for him. I see him as a sniping winger, not a center. He scored a lot in Philly because he shot a lot. His shots are way down this season. Incredible release and good size. Poor playoff numbers and casual play are turnoffs for me. There is so much promise here.

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01-26-2012, 06:07 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
When did he say this?
Not sure if he said that specifically but he said Williams and Richards were a big reason he came to LA. Williams actually called him and told him to sign.

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01-26-2012, 06:11 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Gagne (even though he is out) pretty much said he woudln't have signed here; the only reason was Williams/Richards.
Sorry man, I must have missed that one.

Come again?

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01-26-2012, 06:29 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156
Gagne (even though he is out) pretty much said he woudln't have signed here; the only reason was Williams/Richards.

When did he say this?
He said it in some online/paper interviews and one radio interview I heard. I know some of the artciles are in the archives of the LATIMEs or LA Kings Insider and other Kings media, but this is one I found

http://www.simongagne.com/home/news-archive/july-2011/

Gagne from that:

We’re really close together, very tight [with Richards and Williams]. We kept in touch all last year. (Williams) texted me last night that I look to be a good fit. He was kind of pushing for me to sign in L.A. It’s always fun to hear stuff like that, and I had a chance to talk to Mike Richards this morning, and we’re excited to play on the same line again and do the old stuff that we did in Philly.”

Those two guys definitely helped me to make the decision to come to LA. I’m really good friends with Justin. We kept in touch when he got traded to Carolina. We came into the league almost the same age, we’re really close, really tight. We keep in touch all year long.”

“When Mike came into the league, I was playing more with Peter Forsberg. As we all know, Forsberg was playing, maybe, fifty games a year. The other thirty games, Mike as a rookie, was my centerman. I played with him at least five years, but on the same line for two or three years.”


I was very excited by the potential reunion of Gags and Richie and terribly disappointed it took TM 22 games to let them skate their first shift together (and Gagne set him up in a nice goal) and the next game Richie gets hurt, then Gagne...

My hope is that he'll be back for the playoffs, he's a great playofs guy, nose for the net and success.


Last edited by deeshamrock: 01-26-2012 at 06:32 PM. Reason: addtional info
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01-26-2012, 06:32 PM
  #307
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At this point Im very surprised if a deal isnt made within 4 days. Unless of course he waived Paddock for the fun of it

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01-26-2012, 06:51 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
...I was very excited by the potential reunion of Gags and Richie and terribly disappointed it took TM 22 games to let them skate their first shift together (and Gagne set him up in a nice goal) and the next game Richie gets hurt, then Gagne...

My hope is that he'll be back for the playoffs, he's a great playofs guy, nose for the net and success.
Nice post... yeah I remember those games. I had the same sinking sensation as when the Deadmarsh, Allison line collapsed. It'd be great if he can come back and contribute. But right now I'm more worried about him enjoying his life without a continuing brain injury. Same goes for Richards. He's definitely feeling the aftershocks.

As to Carter... maybe Sutter can do something with him. If Sutter told me "we can deal with him... go get him" I'd be up for it. But I just don't think that's going to happen. Just a gut call.

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01-26-2012, 06:52 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Interesting take John Buccigross had on Carter when ranking his top 100 current players in the NHL:

Quote:
Jeff Carter: Columbus overpaid for him. I see him as a sniping winger, not a center. He scored a lot in Philly because he shot a lot. His shots are way down this season. Incredible release and good size. Poor playoff numbers and casual play are turnoffs for me. There is so much promise here.
He's right, having seen just about every game Carter played, that lazy gene in him is the reason he was one of the most unpopular Flyers ever. Is he a bargain, (5.27 cap hit (11 year/58 mill 11/2010) yes...but he's a risk.
Postives- Great faceoff guy, best on the Flyers by far. Very strong defensive player. Great sniper and deadly when he's on his game, he can dominate.

Problem is, he's lazy, takes shifts and games off, sometimes for lenghty periods of time. I could care less that he never spoke to the media...or what he did on his own time. When he's on the Flyers clock, he should have performed better. Where you see in the stats 35 goals, I see 45 -50 ...hhis nickname on some of the Flyers b,logs was Carter 'high and wide'. If I had a dollar for every time Jim jackson the announcer said that...
he's also injury prone.
Poor Playoff performer and not reliable under pressure. (Gagne is actually the opposite of that, thrives there and gets timely goals) Biggest moment of his career, game 6 Finals agsint Hawks, 1 min. left in regulation score tied, Richard fed him a wicked perfect pass and he had the whole net, he shot right into Niemi's Hawks insignia...Had the Flyers won that game and gone to 7, I believe they would have won.

It could be that being traded (even tho he acted like a five year old and threw a tantrum) did wake him and shock him. Maybe he got too complacent...maybe a tiger can changes it's stripes.

At 26 he's got the best years of his career ahead and (I read this today) ove r the last 5 years in the top 5 for goal scorers. Potential is there..if only he had a consisten work ethic.
With his talent, he's a bargain at that price...but if the Kings were interested, not sure they have what the Blue Jackets want. They gave up a lot to get him and would most likely want someting of equal value to replace.

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01-26-2012, 07:27 PM
  #310
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"dee" thanks for your post. Very informative.

It's interesting. If I get what you are describing, there's kind of a disconnect in his play. He's a great defensive player but somewhat lazy? That's unusual combo. In your opinion, is he one of those talented guys who makes things look TOO easy? I mean is he so smooth that he never looks like he's working. Even when he is working. Or maybe he just gets bored?

How do you think he'd do on this team and with Sutter?

Why did Philadelphia lose interest in these guys?

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01-26-2012, 07:59 PM
  #311
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dee" thanks for your post. Very informative.

Quote:
It's interesting. If I get what you are describing, there's kind of a disconnect in his play. He's a great defensive player but somewhat lazy? That's unusual combo. In your opinion, is he one of those talented guys who makes things look TOO easy? I mean is he so smooth that he never looks like he's working. Even when he is working. Or maybe he just gets bored?
Yes..I guess it's something that happens to players who can glide almost as a good skater and the shot is wicked but looks effortless.
Also, something a friend of mine said after the trade (he's a huge carter fan) that he felt Carter never got a fair shake here, that 'how woud you like playing behind Richards?" He said Richards played his balls off every shift , was physical, fought when he had to, worked for his goals and that Carter wasn't that kind of player, because he didn't have to be, he was a goal scorer.
I got what he was trying to say, taht Ricahrds puts a pound of sweat is most everything he does and then Carter would follow with a shift where he'd glide around the neutral zone. Even when he broke itno the Zone to shoot, it never appeared he was working for it. And it could be due to the fact it comes to him easier because he' s more talented.
For me, there was too much gliding and not enough work.

Quote:
How do you think he'd do on this team and with Sutter?
I think Sutter is the kind of coach that can bring out the best in a player. Esp hearing what his former players said about him. Lavvy was too abrasive, too harsh, too much screaming maybe...he'd gotten too used to stephens, who he had from the Phantoms thru 2009, four years.
Sutter seems to do it by positive reinforcement, and given what we've seen him do so far on the Kings, I think Carter would do fine. Being traded really hurt him, maybe it woke him up. And he's been hurt twice this year, maybe he didn't fine his groove in Columbus...

Quote:
Why did Philadelphia lose interest in these guys?
Oh boy is that a loaded question. Carter's name has been comign up for three years in trade rumors. Mostly due (IMO) to the fact he' s poor playoff performer and not a clutch guy in key situtions or under pressure. I'm sure there was more to it than that, but I won't get into intenet rumors about his private life.
Richards, was the most popular Flyer on the team, was the opposite, the more pressure the better he played. Richards was liked and respected by all his teammates, but he changed after Pronger came. Once that trade was made, Richards days were numbered. Pronger is a very talented (albeit very dirty) defenceman. But he's a guy who won't let anybod ytell him what to do, he's got to be the only voice in the room. No way he'd let a 24 year old kid , even tho he's Captain, rule the roost. Pronger is loud, cautic, abrasive and bad temper. He was the division in the room, I think, the players liked and rspected Richards but were afraid of Pronger.
Imagine how Dustin Brown would have had to cope if P:ronger were traded to the Knigs in 2009? it's not easy sharing a room with him when you have the C and he doesn't and he's that loud and nasty in the room.
THe media didn't like Richards and flayed him at every opportunity (somethng Brzy is now getting a very small taste of) and last year playin in pain for all those mos, esp March to May when the busted up wrist crippled him, took a toll and he did snap at the media, esp during the slump they suffered when he was asked over and over again the same qustions.
Ed Snider was the one who traded Richards , blamed him for the slump in March that cost them the division and for the loss to the Bruins. Richards wore the C, it was his fault. He felt Richards wasn't the leader they needed. I think he's dead wrong and time will tell.
He's doing well in LA, loves the team, the city and is thriving .Prior to the Iinjury, the best I've seen him play since 2009, his best year. He's clearly ,more relaxed, motivated , thriving in a healthy locker room and respects is teammates. He's a guy who'll bleed for his team.

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01-26-2012, 08:03 PM
  #312
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Dee... thanks again. That's great reporting!

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01-26-2012, 08:56 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Dee... thanks again. That's great reporting!
Thanks...you asked about how Carter would do with Sutter...I got to thinking about that. It could be that some players don't need as much from a coach, in that they are almost self motivated. You take a guy like Datsyuk or Toews, I don't see them needing a coach to motivate them. But maybe for some players the right coach can be all the difference. This year, I'd say Doughty's game changed for the better after Sutter. I think there is something to be said for whatever Sutter is doing, including the hands on ,touchy/feely stuff after shifts.

Maybe Jeff Carter hasn't had the coach yet. It could be the right coach with the right approach could light a fire in him.

I hope so, because he is young and very talented. I really hope that the trade shocked him enough to maybe get him to think about his future.

There were some media types here who felt that Richards and Carter were drafted together and Richards evolved, grew every year, they didn't see that growth or maturity in Carter.
I didn't look that deep, but Richards takes the game more serioulsy and shouldered the responsiblity of leading ,esp in playoffs, game sevens, Ot, etc. more .

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01-26-2012, 10:09 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Jeff Carter is not the answer. Zero character. Look at how he's sulked since being traded. Where's his competitive fire? That's not the guy you hitch your wagon to for the next 10 years.
Sorry but this is crap. Character? He improved his defensive play considerably since his rookie year. He improved his fitness as well, not to mention his face offs. The year he signed his first big contract he went from 53 to 84 points. The fact is he signed a long, cap friendly contract to stay in Philly and had the rug pulled out from under him. So instead of being on a contender in the city he loves and who he gave a discount to, he's stuck with the Blue Jackets for 11 years.

Unfortunately, people in Philly have always hated him because he isn't a big hitter. They say he doesn't try but his skating style is smooth, unlike most hockey players, and like most tall players it takes him a bit longer to get going but then he powers through.

Last year he was forced to play RW because the Flyers had so many centres. He missed 8 games but still put up 61 points which is pretty good considering he's only played centre before. He also played most of the defense on that line because Giroux and whoever they had on LW pretty much sucked defensively. He didn't kill penalties in Philly since Richards/Giroux and Powe/Betts were the primary units.

I know a few people are complaining about Simmonds being gone and how much his production has improved in Philly but they're using him in front of the net on the PP, something I don't think he did in LA. The teams also play completely different styles, Philly's is all offense and LA's is all defense. I know you guys complain about the Kings not scoring more than 2 goals a game and it definitely needs to be addressed, but playoff games are generally lower scoring than regular season games. You have a great goalie in Quick and strong team defence. All you need is a bit more scoring.

I don't think Columbus is going to get a whole lot for him because a lot of teams won't be in the running due to the contract length or because their top 6 is settled. If teams think he's going to be traded because he's unhappy, they'll likely low ball Howson.

Let the fun begin!

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01-27-2012, 02:00 AM
  #315
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Everything about Carter is conjecture. Honestly. People believing he is being traded....people who believe he is a cancer to a locker room....

I mean it's all media blown up ********. The guy can play, and if he wants to come here and play by all means. But people getting all TL;DR block posts about conjecture...it's getting crazy.

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01-27-2012, 02:05 AM
  #316
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If Carter is available I'd hope Lombardi goes all in to get him. He's the goal scorer we need and his cap hit is very reasonable. I don't get all this complaining about his contract length either. He would be kings property for 10 years, thats good isn't it? He's not over 35? All this talk about character gets boring after a while, he's a hockey player getting payed to put the puck in the net, he's not primary school teacher or a priest, who cares if he does have supposed character issues. If he wears out his welcome you show him the door. These elite goal scorers don't grow on trees. Do you want a team full of Ethan Moreaus?

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01-27-2012, 04:22 AM
  #317
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I'm curious as to wether or not Columbus is willing to trade Carter not more than 1/2 a season after they acquired him.

Carter isn't in the same boat as Dustin Penner. At least not yet...

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01-27-2012, 06:31 AM
  #318
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I doubt Carter gets traded already; it's half a season in and he's been injured so far.

If he is avaiable though, I'd be upset if Lombardi didn't attempt to aquire him. Passing on trading for Carter so you can try to take a run at Parise, who might not even make it to UFA, is foolish. I feel Parise wouldn't sign here anyway and even if he did, it would be at a huge cap hit.

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01-27-2012, 07:12 AM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
I'm curious as to wether or not Columbus is willing to trade Carter not more than 1/2 a season after they acquired him.

Carter isn't in the same boat as Dustin Penner. At least not yet...
He has a full NTC starting in July and it lasts through 2014/2015. Then it goes to a modified NTC. Columbus can trade him anywhere now but if they don't move him, he dictates where he goes over the next 3 years. The longer they wait to trade him, the fewer options they have. I don't know if he wants out but a lot of us predicted he wouldn't want to stay there after what happened. If he's pissed off and it affects his play, they're better off trading him. If he's not, then they should keep him.

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01-27-2012, 07:32 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
At this point Im very surprised if a deal isnt made within 4 days. Unless of course he waived Paddock for the fun of it
Paddock was likely waived because he was useless in Manchester (he was signed to stable provide veteran scoring there) and he probably has a better offer in Europe somewhere. Hammond even hinted he might be on his back to Germany. Him being waived had nothing to do with a trade unless the trade is for multiple players or prospects that will be playing in the AHL neither of which I can see happening.

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01-27-2012, 08:20 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Thrice
Quote:
Jeff Carter is not the answer. Zero character. Look at how he's sulked since being traded. Where's his competitive fire? That's not the guy you hitch your wagon to for the next 10 years.

Quote:

Sorry but this is crap. Character? He improved his defensive play considerably since his rookie year. He improved his fitness as well, not to mention his face offs. The year he signed his first big contract he went from 53 to 84 points. The fact is he signed a long, cap friendly contract to stay in Philly and had the rug pulled out from under him. So instead of being on a contender in the city he loves and who he gave a discount to, he's stuck with the Blue Jackets for 11 years.

Agree on the 'character' stuff. Living in Philly gives you a whole new appreciation for the yellow pages scripted by some reporters. I saw what it did to Richards, who they
've harrassed for the last 3 years and often on stuff that wasn't true. Then you have to play and have the guys from other teams harping at you on it...Richards is so much better off in LA. He's thriving here.
Carter had a horrible rumor started by a blogger that the spineless media printed. Not only wasn't it true (The blogger admitted he didn't like Carter ) but it haunts Carter and is reprinted, reposted and repeated to this day. To his credit, he's handled it well by ignoring the whole thing.
It's like the Dry Island crap. Thta gossip reporter for the Daily news waited until the MOnday Richadrs left Canada to head to LA for his press conf. in July and then printed that crap. Richards handled it well, it was a non issue. Briere cleared that up in Julyu also when asked ,stating Lavvy wanted to lose weight, came din one day and said that and that he wa s'giving up booze' and put his name on the board and invited anyone to join him. Briere said about half hte guys signed up and they laughed about it.
You have to haved lived here to see how they crucified Richards after the Boston series last spring it was horrible.
The Kings fans have seen Richards for six mos now and heard the commments and praise from his teammates. He's alway been a leader and high character guy and hopefully now that he's in a healthier environment, that stuff die out.


Quote:
Last year he was forced to play RW because the Flyers had so many centres. He missed 8 games but still put up 61 points which is pretty good considering he's only played centre before. He also played most of the defense on that line because Giroux and whoever they had on LW pretty much sucked defensively. He didn't kill penalties in Philly since Richards/Giroux and Powe/Betts were the primary units.
You can credit his defensive play to John Stevens. Carter and Richards went to the PHantoms in 2005 and helped get them the Calder Cup. Richards was already a defensive beast, but Stevens worked with Carter that year and the next one as head coach of the Flyers. He taught him to use his hieght and his reach to intimidate. So that's due to Stevens coaching.


Quote:
I know a few people are complaining about Simmonds being gone and how much his production has improved in Philly but they're using him in front of the net on the PP, something I don't think he did in LA. The teams also play completely different styles, Philly's is all offense and LA's is all defense. I know you guys complain about the Kings not scoring more than 2 goals a game and it definitely needs to be addressed, but playoff games are generally lower scoring than regular season games. You have a great goalie in Quick and strong team defence. All you need is a bit more scoring
.

I love the Flyers, watch every game and root hard for them. But hte Kings are alot closer to Cup. Defense wins championsihops and the Kings have better goaltending and much better defense.
Once their offense picks up (and it will thru the rest of the year), they will be a team that will be able to go deep. And anyone who has seen Mike Richards healthy and uninjured in the playoffs knows what a stud he is, he elevates his game to a whole othe level, which will be a huge benefit for the Kings
The Flyers are giving up over 3 goals a game and struggle agasint contenders. In order to go deep in the EC they would have to go thru the Rangers or Bruins who would beat them. Even Pittsburgh could do that ina 7 games series. They do not have (other than Sean courtier) a solid defensive shut down center . He's phenomonal, in 4 years with growth and about 20 pounds ,he'll be 6'4 force, IMO he'll become the Flyers best player, he's that good already at 19.
They have a great gropu of good youthful players, but are short or experienced ones. That right now will hurt htem, but the future is bright for them.

I think if DL is thinking on Carter, it's a risk, given his lack of motivation at lapses on the ice. But that was with the Flyers and at 26 with his skill , you have to maybe taie that risk and hope that the trade did make him look at himself
At his cap hit, he's a bargain.

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01-27-2012, 09:36 AM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
I doubt Carter gets traded already; it's half a season in and he's been injured so far.

If he is avaiable though, I'd be upset if Lombardi didn't attempt to aquire him. Passing on trading for Carter so you can try to take a run at Parise, who might not even make it to UFA, is foolish. I feel Parise wouldn't sign here anyway and even if he did, it would be at a huge cap hit.
Agreed, I'd rather go for Carter too, but I doubt you have to be worried about DL not at least inquiring about Carter.

Carter is a former Flyers, was coached by Stevens for four years and is a good friend of Richards and likely Gagne and Williams as well. He will likely have as good of info on Carter's character, work ethic, morals and talent as anyone this side of the Flyers organization. If he gets a thumbs up from them, and management is ok with him taking on another long-term contract, we'll be in there hard and heavy for Carter.

Besides, when it comes to UFA bidding, if you feel annoyed by constantly being snubbed every summer, how do you think DL feels? It's one of the few constant things in the entire sport of hockey, DL will make a big pitch for a big name UFA, only to be rejected and stood up at the alter. Chara, Drury, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Richards, etc. A few in hindsight are his own fault (Gaborik for example, though I would have 100% done the same thing so not blaming him), but overall I'm sure DL can see the writing on the wall with Parise.

About the only thing I can see standing in the way of going for Carter -outside of Stevens, Richards and Co. actually giving Carter the thumbs down - is if management is toying with the idea of letting DL go in the near future. If they are, and it could be a possibility considering we have a max payroll and may miss the playoffs, I doubt they'd want to be stuck with a 10 year contract for the enxt GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
He has a full NTC starting in July and it lasts through 2014/2015. Then it goes to a modified NTC. Columbus can trade him anywhere now but if they don't move him, he dictates where he goes over the next 3 years. The longer they wait to trade him, the fewer options they have. I don't know if he wants out but a lot of us predicted he wouldn't want to stay there after what happened. If he's pissed off and it affects his play, they're better off trading him. If he's not, then they should keep him.
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, if a player is traded prior to his NTC/NMC kicking in, the acquiring team has the option to void that NTC/NMC. It's unclear if Columbus did that or not with Carter's deal, but if they did, they could still move him next year or further down the road.

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01-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, if a player is traded prior to his NTC/NMC kicking in, the acquiring team has the option to void that NTC/NMC. It's unclear if Columbus did that or not with Carter's deal, but if they did, they could still move him next year or further down the road.
You are probably right, but I thought the NTC only could be voided by the new team if it was waived to make a trade, not traded before the clause has kicked in. Has someone actually clarified this?

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01-27-2012, 10:12 AM
  #324
MsWoof
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Agreed, I'd rather go for Carter too, but I doubt you have to be worried about DL not at least inquiring about Carter.

Carter is a former Flyers, was coached by Stevens for four years and is a good friend of Richards and likely Gagne and Williams as well. He will likely have as good of info on Carter's character, work ethic, morals and talent as anyone this side of the Flyers organization. If he gets a thumbs up from them, and management is ok with him taking on another long-term contract, we'll be in there hard and heavy for Carter.

Besides, when it comes to UFA bidding, if you feel annoyed by constantly being snubbed every summer, how do you think DL feels? It's one of the few constant things in the entire sport of hockey, DL will make a big pitch for a big name UFA, only to be rejected and stood up at the alter. Chara, Drury, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Richards, etc. A few in hindsight are his own fault (Gaborik for example, though I would have 100% done the same thing so not blaming him), but overall I'm sure DL can see the writing on the wall with Parise.

About the only thing I can see standing in the way of going for Carter -outside of Stevens, Richards and Co. actually giving Carter the thumbs down - is if management is toying with the idea of letting DL go in the near future. If they are, and it could be a possibility considering we have a max payroll and may miss the playoffs, I doubt they'd want to be stuck with a 10 year contract for the enxt GM.



As was pointed out earlier in this thread, if a player is traded prior to his NTC/NMC kicking in, the acquiring team has the option to void that NTC/NMC. It's unclear if Columbus did that or not with Carter's deal, but if they did, they could still move him next year or further down the road.
The Jackets said they were going to apply to the league to honour it. I think we'd have heard by now if they didn't. I'm guessing if there is an issue with him not wanting to be in Columbus, they'd be better off trading him in the next month or so and being done with it. Chalk it up to a bad experience all around.

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01-27-2012, 10:13 AM
  #325
kingsfan
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Originally Posted by Kings4thecup View Post
You are probably right, but I thought the NTC only could be voided by the new team if it was waived to make a trade, not traded before the clause has kicked in. Has someone actually clarified this?
It was clarrified in post 100 of this thread. Here's a link (if I did this right):

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=100

Straight from the CBA.

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