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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread III

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Old
01-27-2012, 02:10 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
The thing is, Columbus screwed themselves out of Couturier last year by trading away their high 1st rounder when they really didn't need to. It was all a Jedi mind trick! If they're that gullible, I say it's worth at least inquiring.
They got Carter for that first. Here you give Carter and a much higher 1st for Jack Johnson and our dead wood. Big difference.

Remember that conversation we had on the board a week ago about insult another team's GM....

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01-27-2012, 02:12 PM
  #352
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Accord to Dreger (not someone I find overly reliable) he's saying the Canes could move Ruutu next week.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386217

Consider we just waived Paddock, any connection? I assume not, but would be an interesting addition. Wonder what the cost would be.

DL and Rutherford do have history, the Johnson trade as well as that three-way with us getting Williams.

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01-27-2012, 02:12 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
I totally agree. How does that make Mason feel? Is he a UFA after this season? I know he's getting WAY overpaid right now, but I thought that deal was longer. Until Mason proves himself, whatever team he lands on will have to see him as a back up. Talk about a career dive. The good thing for him is, he's still VERY young.
Sadly, Mason's career is looking more and more like he's going to wind up being the next Andrew Raycroft, Brian Boucher, or Patrick Lalime: all goalies who started off with promising careers but quickly faded to become average backup goalies.

Mason has another year remaining on his contract that carries a cap hit of $2.9M. In terms of actual salary, he is owed $3.2M next season. He's going to be bought out.

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01-27-2012, 02:15 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
They got Carter for that first.

No, they got Carter for Voracek.



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Remember that conversation we had on the board a week ago about insult another team's GM....

Which conversation was that?

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01-27-2012, 02:34 PM
  #355
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I'd like to see P.A. Parenteau and Travis Moen acquired at the deadline. Use guys like Moller, Martinez, Hickey and one of the goalie prospects as possible bait seeing as we are short on higher round picks this year.

Correct me if I am wrong but Jeff Carter was acquired by C-bus for Voracek, 2011 1st rd pick (Couturier) and a 3rd round pick in 11'.

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01-27-2012, 02:36 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=613970


It is now pretty much confirmed that Columbus is in the market for a new starting goalie. Fire up even more speculation with Bernier being the center piece in a trade to acquire a sniper from Columbus.
Been thinking about this and what are the odds that Columbus would take (not as the center piece of course) one of Jones or Zatkoff plus draft picks and maybe another prospect or roster player going their way? Hate to see Bernier go as then Quick can basically name his price and we'd be stuck paying it...

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01-27-2012, 02:41 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Accord to Dreger (not someone I find overly reliable) he's saying the Canes could move Ruutu next week.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386217

Consider we just waived Paddock, any connection? I assume not, but would be an interesting addition. Wonder what the cost would be.

DL and Rutherford do have history, the Johnson trade as well as that three-way with us getting Williams.
Personally I think Cam Paddock was just waived in order for him to go to Europe. His performance in Manchester is probably not what the Kings/'Narchs would have hoped and he can get more money playing in Europe anyway. So they probably just agreed to terminate the contract and move on.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Kings are up against the contract limit so releasing Paddock wouldn't necessarily help in that area anyway.

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01-27-2012, 02:41 PM
  #358
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I'm only in favor of pursuing Carter as long his acquisition doesn't prevent upper management from pursuing ANOTHER 1st line scoring winger.

In other words, Carter alone isn't enough. If the Kings land Carter they should still be pursuing Parise via free agency if he's available.

Luckily, LA still has lots of CAP flexibility even if Carter is on the roster.

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01-27-2012, 02:46 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I'm only in favor of pursuing Carter as long his acquisition doesn't prevent upper management from pursuing ANOTHER 1st line scoring winger.

In other words, Carter alone isn't enough. If the Kings land Carter they should still be pursuing Parise via free agency if he's available.

Luckily, LA still has lots of CAP flexibility even if Carter is on the roster.
How would that work cap wise? Would it even?

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01-27-2012, 02:52 PM
  #360
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How would that work cap wise? Would it even?
No one knows what the CAP is going to be so it's hard to say.

Carter has a low CAP hit (5.27M), and Penner, Stoll, and Mitchell will all be coming off the books. The Kings could probably afford another 7M contract even with Carter on the roster.

I would like to see Mitchell some how resigned if possible though.

I wonder how much money AEG is willing to spend.

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01-27-2012, 02:52 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
No, they got Carter for Voracek.
Ok, they got Carter for Voracek and a 1st. And a 3rd.

Argue all you want, Johnson and our crap isn't worth Carter and the 1st overall pick (as it currently stands). It could be debated it's even worth Carter alone, and a thread on the main baord right now has CBJ fans demanding Johnson and a 1st for Carter.

Your offer is unrealistic, to be kind.

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01-27-2012, 02:57 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
No one knows what the CAP is going to be so it's hard to say.

Carter has a low CAP hit (5.27M), and Penner, Stoll, and Mitchell will all be coming off the books. The Kings could probably afford another 7M contract even with Carter on the roster.

I would like to see Mitchell some how resigned if possible though.

I wonder how much money AEG is willing to spend.
People need to drop the thought of Parise coming out West.

Unless the Kings are going to offer money he can't turn down(Kovi money). Teams Like Chicago/Detriot/Toronto/Bruins/Caps will have plenty of cap space this off season.

Zach is staying on the East coast

There are teams like the Avs this offseason. The Avs have to spend close to 30 million (cap wise) to just make the salary floor. They only have 8 players so far signed too 2012-2013. They could throw a monster contract at Zach, and it would be worth it to them.


Last edited by damacles1156: 01-27-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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01-27-2012, 02:59 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
No one knows what the CAP is going to be so it's hard to say.

Carter has a low CAP hit (5.27M), and Penner, Stoll, and Mitchell will all be coming off the books. The Kings could probably afford another 7M contract even with Carter on the roster.

I would like to see Mitchell some how resigned if possible though.

I wonder how much money AEG is willing to spend.

They will spend as much as it takes as long as they are making a profit from it.

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Old
01-27-2012, 03:08 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Been thinking about this and what are the odds that Columbus would take (not as the center piece of course) one of Jones or Zatkoff plus draft picks and maybe another prospect or roster player going their way? Hate to see Bernier go as then Quick can basically name his price and we'd be stuck paying it...
To me this is just a misconception. Bernier is insurance if Quick walks on us, but he doesn't have any impact on what Quick will make on a contract. That'd be like saying Doughty could ask for more if we traded Johnson. The market dictates a players price, not who is his backup.

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Personally I think Cam Paddock was just waived in order for him to go to Europe. His performance in Manchester is probably not what the Kings/'Narchs would have hoped and he can get more money playing in Europe anyway. So they probably just agreed to terminate the contract and move on.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Kings are up against the contract limit so releasing Paddock wouldn't necessarily help in that area anyway.
Does anyone know how many contracts we have? I assume we have draft picks that also have to be signed by the June 1st deadline, as well as a few college kids we are eyeing up, so that could play into the Paddock release as well in terms of opening a contract spot.

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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
No one knows what the CAP is going to be so it's hard to say.

Carter has a low CAP hit (5.27M), and Penner, Stoll, and Mitchell will all be coming off the books. The Kings could probably afford another 7M contract even with Carter on the roster.

I would like to see Mitchell some how resigned if possible though.

I wonder how much money AEG is willing to spend.
We have $50.1 million commited to 19 players on our roster currently for next year, and still would need to replace Penner, Stoll and Mitchell, as well as likely one of Fraser and Hunter. Carter's $5.27 million would mean $55.4 in cap for 20 players, and still needing to replace Stoll, Mitchell and a 4th liner. Even if we replaced all three from within with the likes of Muzzin, Moller and Toffoli (just tossing names out there) that would be $2.7 million-ish, bringing our cap up to $58.1 million. And that's assuming we go low end and replace those spots from within with what will likely be inferior players (especially in the case of Mitchell).

Unless the cap goes up, that will leave us with $6.2 million in cap space, and you want to leave at least a small portion of this incase of injury. DL left $1 million this year, so that'd leave you $5.2 million cap space.

How do we fit in a seven million contract? And keep in mind if we got someone like Parise, he'd be on the books for likely 7 years or so. So his contract, as well as Carter, would be on the books when it comes time to extend Quick, Voynov and Loktionov, all of whom could get decent raises (Quick will for sure). Also keep in mind that with Stoll and Penner coming off the books, we don't really have a salary cap dump we can ship out as everyone is earning pretty well what they should be. The worst we'd have is Matt Greene.

The cap would have to go up a decent portion for a few seasons and we'd have to be looking almost solely at filling openings from within to fit in a $7 million contract.

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01-27-2012, 03:23 PM
  #365
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To me this is just a misconception. Bernier is insurance if Quick walks on us, but he doesn't have any impact on what Quick will make on a contract. That'd be like saying Doughty could ask for more if we traded Johnson. The market dictates a players price, not who is his backup.



Does anyone know how many contracts we have? I assume we have draft picks that also have to be signed by the June 1st deadline, as well as a few college kids we are eyeing up, so that could play into the Paddock release as well in terms of opening a contract spot.



We have $50.1 million commited to 19 players on our roster currently for next year, and still would need to replace Penner, Stoll and Mitchell, as well as likely one of Fraser and Hunter. Carter's $5.27 million would mean $55.4 in cap for 20 players, and still needing to replace Stoll, Mitchell and a 4th liner. Even if we replaced all three from within with the likes of Muzzin, Moller and Toffoli (just tossing names out there) that would be $2.7 million-ish, bringing our cap up to $58.1 million. And that's assuming we go low end and replace those spots from within with what will likely be inferior players (especially in the case of Mitchell).

Unless the cap goes up, that will leave us with $6.2 million in cap space, and you want to leave at least a small portion of this incase of injury. DL left $1 million this year, so that'd leave you $5.2 million cap space.

How do we fit in a seven million contract? And keep in mind if we got someone like Parise, he'd be on the books for likely 7 years or so. So his contract, as well as Carter, would be on the books when it comes time to extend Quick, Voynov and Loktionov, all of whom could get decent raises (Quick will for sure). Also keep in mind that with Stoll and Penner coming off the books, we don't really have a salary cap dump we can ship out as everyone is earning pretty well what they should be. The worst we'd have is Matt Greene.

The cap would have to go up a decent portion for a few seasons and we'd have to be looking almost solely at filling openings from within to fit in a $7 million contract.
I agree About Quick, He is going to ask for what he wants regardless of who is behind him. Hell for all we know Quick may want to go back East, and not even give the Kings offer a look (I personally don't think he would do that, but you never know).

If the Kings trade for Carter they can forget making a run at Parise. 7m per is not going to be enough to get Zach to come out West. With teams like Chicago/Detriot/Caps/Bruins with cap space this off season, the Kings offer to Zach has to be one he can't turn down.

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01-27-2012, 03:42 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
No one knows what the CAP is going to be so it's hard to say.

Carter has a low CAP hit (5.27M), and Penner, Stoll, and Mitchell will all be coming off the books. The Kings could probably afford another 7M contract even with Carter on the roster.

I would like to see Mitchell some how resigned if possible though.

I wonder how much money AEG is willing to spend.
this means quick is gone

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01-27-2012, 03:52 PM
  #367
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Looking at next years cap, if the Kings add Carter and say they re-sign Mitchell at $3M and Fraser at $700K, and presuming that Bernier is moved in a trade, it leaves the Kings with approximately $2.6M in cap space if the salary cap remains as it is.

Quick's deal expires at the same time that Simon Gagne and Rob Scuderi become UFAs. The Kings could also gain cap relief if they place Gagne on LTIR if he's still suffering from his concussion.

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01-27-2012, 03:52 PM
  #368
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Forget Carter. Kings don't need another Penner. There is a reason the Flyers traded him and after barely a season Columbus wants to get rid of him. They aren't talking of trading Wiz or anyone else they signed or traded for.

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01-27-2012, 04:04 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
How do we fit in a seven million contract? And keep in mind if we got someone like Parise, he'd be on the books for likely 7 years or so. So his contract, as well as Carter, would be on the books when it comes time to extend Quick, Voynov and Loktionov, all of whom could get decent raises (Quick will for sure). Also keep in mind that with Stoll and Penner coming off the books, we don't really have a salary cap dump we can ship out as everyone is earning pretty well what they should be. The worst we'd have is Matt Greene.

The cap would have to go up a decent portion for a few seasons and we'd have to be looking almost solely at filling openings from within to fit in a $7 million contract.
You do what every team with a big budget does. You find ways to make it work just like Philadelpha and NYR do. If you trade for Carter, you're probably sending salary the other way. If you land another big winger on top of Carter, Gagne probably becomes expendable (if he even comes back.)

So here's a hypothetical scenario, and I don't wanna hear "it's not realistic". It's just an exercise to demonstrate that we can fit another big salary on the roster even if we land Carter.


Trade: Johnson+/- for Carter
Resign: Fraser (1m), Mitchell (3.5M/1 Year)
Sign: Parise (7.5M)

*One of King/Nolan/Cliche makes the team out of camp.

Quote:
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Brad Richardson ($1.175m) / Andrei Loktionov ($0.816m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Kyle Clifford ($0.870m) / Colin Fraser ($1.000m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.531m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Rob Scuderi ($3.400m) / Drew Doughty ($7.000m)
Willie Mitchell ($3.500m) / Vyacheslav Voinov ($0.816m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($0.737m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.616m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m) / Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)

CAP PAYROLL: $63,561,893; BONUSES: $342,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $738,107

There's lots of other scenarios too that would allow us to take on another big contract even with out moving a core piece like Johnson.

But it's not even about this. My larger point is that if the Kings land Carter they should still be pursuing another top line forward, because Carter alone isn't enough. Just like they went after B. Richards, even though they had already landed M. Richards.

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01-27-2012, 04:05 PM
  #370
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Forget Carter. Kings don't need another Penner. There is a reason the Flyers traded him and after barely a season Columbus wants to get rid of him. They aren't talking of trading Wiz or anyone else they signed or traded for.
There is a HUGE difference between Penner and Carter. Penner has scored more than 30 goals once in his NHL career while Carter averages 36 per year over the last four seasons.

As for there being a reason the Fylers traded him, who cares? They had a reason to trade Richards as well and I'm grateful every day for it.

Columbus is getting ready to blow that entire thing-up. IMO most of the reason there is all this trade talk around Carter is because he doesn't want to be in Columbus. Wiz chose to be there, Carter didn't. It's best for both parties to move on

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01-27-2012, 04:06 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
People need to drop the thought of Parise coming out West.

Unless the Kings are going to offer money he can't turn down(Kovi money). Teams Like Chicago/Detriot/Toronto/Bruins/Caps will have plenty of cap space this off season.

Zach is staying on the East coast

There are teams like the Avs this offseason. The Avs have to spend close to 30 million (cap wise) to just make the salary floor. They only have 8 players so far signed too 2012-2013. They could throw a monster contract at Zach, and it would be worth it to them.
It's not about Parise. Parise is just an example of the caliber of player we should be pursuing even if we do land Carter. Jeff alone doesn't get us where we need to be, if his acquisition prevents us from going after another top player, then Carter should not be pursued IMO.

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01-27-2012, 04:35 PM
  #372
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Forget Carter. Kings don't need another Penner. There is a reason the Flyers traded him and after barely a season Columbus wants to get rid of him. They aren't talking of trading Wiz or anyone else they signed or traded for.
And that for is for 2 reasons.

1- you don't trade a ufa right after you sign him unless he pulls a Steve Duchene.

2- Wiz is WAY overpaid. It is going to be a lot easier to find someone to take Carters contract on that Wiz's

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01-27-2012, 04:45 PM
  #373
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Ok, they got Carter for Voracek and a 1st. And a 3rd.

Argue all you want, Johnson and our crap isn't worth Carter and the 1st overall pick (as it currently stands). It could be debated it's even worth Carter alone, and a thread on the main baord right now has CBJ fans demanding Johnson and a 1st for Carter.

Your offer is unrealistic, to be kind.
Mind you CBJ fans thought Filatov was worth more then a 3rd rounder they got for him from Ottawa.
Carter has a 10year contract and a NTC which means that Carter can nix a deal if the destination isn't for his liking. His current pace of 40pts is not exactly impressive either and ain't adding on trade value.
The difference between Johnson and Carter is not a 1st round draft choice, more like a Zatkoff/King/3rd rounder.

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01-27-2012, 04:56 PM
  #374
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About Zach Parise getting $7.5 million --

I'm sure he'll make that and more in real salary, but the last two big free agent fish, Kovalchuk and Brad Richards, have cap hits of only $6.6 million. Cap-bending within limits will still exist by July 1st, no? The current CBA doesn't expire until mid September.

A lot of contenders like Chicago are in decent cap shape because of deals like Hossa's. Doughty was too young for one. But for a 27 year old, frontloading would work just fine.

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01-27-2012, 05:03 PM
  #375
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The TSN panel seems to think the Kings are part of a "limited market" for Carter. Interesting.

The video is on tsn.ca, All-Star Media Day: Insider Trading - Pt. 1

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