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Lebrun: Canuck and others looking at Moen

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Old
01-27-2012, 05:09 PM
  #126
Andy
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I doubt Moen nets us a second.

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01-27-2012, 05:12 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Personally, I think he goes to a contender for a low first rounder (basically the team's own first round pick).
I was just looking at the 2010 and 2011 deadline deals ; here's a sample :

Bélanger for a 2nd
Halpern for Purcell and a 3rd
Torres for Paestch and a 3rd
Arnott for Steckel and a 2nd
Higgins for E Oberg and a 3rd
B Winchester for a 3rd
Chris Kelly for a 2nd
Penner (not a rental though) for Teubert, 2011 1st and 2012 3rd (still, what a deal !!)
Kaberle for Colbourne and a 1st


1st rounds picks just don't get traded for rental utility type forwards. They go for scorers or important d-men

Last year, Brad Winchester a physical player who already had 9 goals got traded for a 3rd at the deadline. Moen is worth more than him I'm sure, but not that much that he warrants a 1st rounder.

If people really get into the bidding, maybe we extract a lower pick or a prospect to go along with the 2nd rounder which would be excellent value. 1st pick is a mirage IMHO

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01-27-2012, 05:16 PM
  #128
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Get a 2nd for Moen and a 2nd for Gill.

Trade the two 2nds on Draft Day for a low first if there is a guy you like.

Figure out what you are doing with AKost too..

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01-27-2012, 05:18 PM
  #129
Andy
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Get a 2nd for Moen and a 2nd for Gill.

Trade the two 2nds on Draft Day for a low first if there is a guy you like.

Figure out what you are doing with AKost too..
I wouldn't move AK for anything less than an overpayment(1st and a prospect with top 6 potential or D prospect with top 4 potential). AK is homegrown, cheap and wants to stay here.

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01-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I doubt Moen nets us a second.
The way I see it, under the right circumstances he could but there is also a good chance the best you can do is a 3rd.

Based on historical post lockout deadline deals for similar players for the UFA players I figure the expected return is like this.

Moen 2nd-3rd.
Gill 2nd-4th
Campoli 4th-7th
Darche 3rd-7th

Kostitsyn 2nd+ (i.e. 2nd + 3rd-5th, 2nd + prospect etc.) maybe 1st if your lucky.

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01-27-2012, 05:23 PM
  #131
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Moen for a 2nd would be fine with me.

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01-27-2012, 05:24 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Hook View Post
I was just looking at the 2010 and 2011 deadline deals ; here's a sample :

Bélanger for a 2nd
Halpern for Purcell and a 3rd
Torres for Paestch and a 3rd
Arnott for Steckel and a 2nd
Higgins for E Oberg and a 3rd
B Winchester for a 3rd
Chris Kelly for a 2nd
Penner (not a rental though) for Teubert, 2011 1st and 2012 3rd (still, what a deal !!)
Kaberle for Colbourne and a 1st


1st rounds picks just don't get traded for rental utility type forwards. They go for scorers or important d-men

Last year, Brad Winchester a physical player who already had 9 goals got traded for a 3rd at the deadline. Moen is worth more than him I'm sure, but not that much that he warrants a 1st rounder.

If people really get into the bidding, maybe we extract a lower pick or a prospect to go along with the 2nd rounder which would be excellent value. 1st pick is a mirage IMHO
Difference between Winchester and Moen is that stanley cup ring, like it or not, GMs look for that experience when they acquire players. Im not saying Moen is going to get us a first but I hes more valuable than Winchester

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01-27-2012, 05:25 PM
  #133
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if edmonton got a 1st rounder and a few other kicks out of penner i think mtl can also get a 1st rounder for ak..ak has more talent then penner has.

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01-27-2012, 05:27 PM
  #134
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if edmonton got a 1st rounder and a few other kicks out of penner i think mtl can also get a 1st rounder for ak..ak has more talent then penner has.
Penner was coming of a 30+ goal season, already scored 20+ that year and had another year on his contract at a reasonable price for that kind of performance. So no, he won't get more than Penner did.

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01-27-2012, 05:28 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I wouldn't move AK for anything less than an overpayment(1st and a prospect with top 6 potential or D prospect with top 4 potential). AK is homegrown, cheap and wants to stay here.
Cheap is relative.

What did AK say exactly, "i'll take less than market value to stay in Montreal"

This begs a few questions

1) What does he think his market value is?
2) How much less than his market value will he take?

If I was PG I'd certainly sit down with him and his agent and answer those questions... and depending on the answers, Id either sign him or trade him.

My Offer.... 3 years 12 million (4 million AAV)... and if he wants more than that, trade him.

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01-27-2012, 05:32 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Hook View Post
Last year, Brad Winchester a physical player who already had 9 goals got traded for a 3rd at the deadline. Moen is worth more than him I'm sure, but not that much that he warrants a 1st rounder.

If people really get into the bidding, maybe we extract a lower pick or a prospect to go along with the 2nd rounder which would be excellent value. 1st pick is a mirage IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Difference between Winchester and Moen is that stanley cup ring, like it or not, GMs look for that experience when they acquire players. Im not saying Moen is going to get us a first but I hes more valuable than Winchester
So aren't we saying exactly the same thing ?

Don't know Winchester that well, but I also think that Moen would be viewed as a way better PKer and overall smarter player. And the Cup experience factor plays as well, I'm sure.

Bottomline, no 1st for us.

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01-27-2012, 05:39 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Dr_Hook View Post
So aren't we saying exactly the same thing ?

Don't know Winchester that well, but I also think that Moen would be viewed as a way better PKer and overall smarter player. And the Cup experience factor plays as well, I'm sure.

Bottomline, no 1st for us.
yes we are, thats what happens when u do drugs, as i tend to do on a daily basis

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01-27-2012, 06:12 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Hook View Post
I was just looking at the 2010 and 2011 deadline deals ; here's a sample :

Bélanger for a 2nd
Halpern for Purcell and a 3rd
Torres for Paestch and a 3rd
Arnott for Steckel and a 2nd
Higgins for E Oberg and a 3rd
B Winchester for a 3rd
Chris Kelly for a 2nd
Penner (not a rental though) for Teubert, 2011 1st and 2012 3rd (still, what a deal !!)
Kaberle for Colbourne and a 1st


1st rounds picks just don't get traded for rental utility type forwards. They go for scorers or important d-men

Last year, Brad Winchester a physical player who already had 9 goals got traded for a 3rd at the deadline. Moen is worth more than him I'm sure, but not that much that he warrants a 1st rounder.

If people really get into the bidding, maybe we extract a lower pick or a prospect to go along with the 2nd rounder which would be excellent value. 1st pick is a mirage IMHO
Most of those trades involve another player coming back, so they're a poor example. A mid-level prospect and a second, or Montreal throws in a lower pick to put the deal over the top are also possibilities, but Moen will be a tremendous asset to any team looking to compete for the cup, so some GM is bound to bite. If I'm Gauthier, a first is my asking price up until about a couple of hours before the deadline where I start haggling just a bit.

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01-27-2012, 06:13 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Penner was coming of a 30+ goal season, already scored 20+ that year and had another year on his contract at a reasonable price for that kind of performance. So no, he won't get more than Penner did.
i did not say he was worth has much has what they paid for penner i said ak is better and could fetch a first late 1 rounder.

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01-27-2012, 06:37 PM
  #140
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He was far more physical with the Ducks. Although of course he was surrounded by big tough dudes.
He had similar hit totals in Anaheim as he has in Montreal.

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01-27-2012, 06:45 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I love Moen, and wouldn't mind if we resigned him, but he can easily be replaced on the open market, so if you can get a decent offer, example 2nd round pick. July 1st you give someone like Prust 1.5M. Prust,2nd round pick>Moen type thing.
You don't get a 2nd rnd pick for a player like Moen. Character, role players don't bring in that much.

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01-27-2012, 06:52 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
He had similar hit totals in Anaheim as he has in Montreal.
As well as fights and PIMs.

Moen was never an enforcer. He was always placed in a shutdown role as a physical winger who is willing to drop em once and a while. Everyone seems to think he's this big mean SOB, even Sharks fans called him "soft" during his time there. Everyone has a big misconception of Moen.

He's a physical winger who plays a great defensive game and willing to grind it out to win.

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01-27-2012, 06:55 PM
  #143
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by Big Buff View Post
You don't get a 2nd rnd pick for a player like Moen. Character, role players don't bring in that much.


says hi

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01-27-2012, 06:56 PM
  #144
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Be prepared to be disappointed.

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01-27-2012, 07:06 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Big Buff View Post
You don't get a 2nd rnd pick for a player like Moen. Character, role players don't bring in that much.
Dominic Moore, Eric Belanger and Chris Kelly beg to differ.

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01-27-2012, 07:10 PM
  #146
Andy
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Dominic Moore, Eric Belanger and Chris Kelly beg to differ.
The thing is I wouldn't put Moen in the same category as those guys. Moen for me is a straight up third line player. Those other guys are more like "tweeners" not good enough to be 2nd line players but better than just pure 3rd liners with very limited ability.

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01-27-2012, 07:12 PM
  #147
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anything lower than a third isn t worth it. Might aswell keep him if that is the case.

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01-27-2012, 07:12 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
As well as fights and PIMs.

Moen was never an enforcer. He was always placed in a shutdown role as a physical winger who is willing to drop em once and a while. Everyone seems to think he's this big mean SOB, even Sharks fans called him "soft" during his time there. Everyone has a big misconception of Moen.

He's a physical winger who plays a great defensive game and willing to grind it out to win.
Exactly! Earlier this season (before JM was fired) Elliotte Friedman mentioned on Inside Hockey that JM said Moen and Plekanec were his two lowest maintenance players and that they will both do whatever he asks them to do with no questions asked. Moen has a great reputation as an honest player who will do all the little things needed to win.

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01-27-2012, 07:14 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
This is a genius idea... everyone... lets trade price!
Contrary to what some people say, a guy like Moen is NOT easy to replace. How many guys in the can fight middle-to-heavyweights, kill penalties on the first unit, and put up 25 pts per year?

If someone gives a high 2nd rounder, trade him, if not, he's only 30, sign him for another 4-5 years.

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01-27-2012, 07:21 PM
  #150
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The way I look at it is if we move Moen then we need to sign a UFA that is pretty much like Moen because we need what Moen brings to the botom 6 ( although as some have posted, Moen can fill in to the top 6 if needed here and there ). If you are confident you can pick off such a UFA then by trading Moen you also snare another asset and it makes sense to move him. On the other hand, if you think it will be difficult to find a Moen type player as a UFA, then you try resigning him. I dont know all the UFA players well enough to know if there are a few Moen type guys out there so that its likely we could sign such a UFA. Personally, I would be fine missing out on a 2nd round pick and resigning the guy.

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